Terminator: Salvation - The NEW new thread

[dark_b]

i dont

 

[hippie_hunter]

i dont

How so? If Judgment Day occurred like it originally should have in 1997, then you're right; it's completely impossible for Skynet to find out that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father because all records of Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese were destroyed.

However because Judgment Day was delayed to 2004, the Internet Age has allowed Skynet the ability to do so.

 

[dark_b]

i read the post wrong. i meant that there is no way that Skynet knows how Reese looks.

 

[hippie_hunter]

i read the post wrong. i meant that there is no way that Skynet knows how Reese looks.

It would be a pretty simple process as well. The police records have videos of Kyle Reese and it's possible that they took mugshot photos and fingerprints before he was interrogated. They know what Kyle Reese looks like in 2029.

Just like how we have technology that can predict how people can look as they get older, Skynet could easily create an image of Kyle Reese ten years younger.

 

[Nightmare]

Hmm, I never thought of it that awy hippie. Thats a good point and makes a lot more sense now when they spotted him in terminator salvation they instantly knew that was him.

 

[Kane52630]

i read the post wrong. i meant that there is no way that Skynet knows how Reese looks.

they used Facebook.

 

[hippie_hunter]

- Kyle Reese has added Skynet as a friend

 

[lzzy]

Skynet knowing more about the past throws a spanner into the works, if they know so much about past events, then they'll be able to intercept targets easier. Now what's stopping them from sending a Terminator straight to Connor's door? Revisable timelines are messy.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Actually it would be pretty easy for Skynet to find out that Kyle Reese is John's father because of Sarah's imprisonment in Pescadero. In her interviews with Dr. Silberman she revealed the events of the first movie including a machine, called a Terminator sent back in time, a supercomputer taking over the world called Skynet, and that Kyle Reese, the man who was sent back in time by her future son is also John's father. All of this are in Pescadero's records.

The police have records of Kyle Reese because he was arrested in the first film and questioned by Dr. Silberman. Everything he mentioned such as the Terminator's mission to kill Sarah Connor, him being sent by John Connor, along with Skynet and the Terminators would be on record as well.

And with it being the 21st Century and all, all of those records would have been backed up in a computer database by 2004 and Skynet would have been able to instantly obtain once it became activated before destroying the world and the records along with it.

So all Skynet had to do was find anyone associated with the resistance named Kyle Reese. The events of the second film resulting in the delay of the activation of Skyent made it easy for Skynet to find out that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father.

Yeah, I see your points HH, but how would those records have been backed up when they were recorded on video tapes, well before the internet was essentially created.

Silberman also never mentioned Kyle Reese's name and we never hear Sarah mention it to Silberman, not to mention the police station were Kyle was interrogated was completely destroyed so there is a high possibility the video's of Kyle were too along with his prints, etc.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, I see your points HH, but how would those records have been backed up when they were recorded on video tapes, well before the internet was essentially created.

Silberman also never mentioned Kyle Reese's name and we never hear Sarah mention it to Silberman, not to mention the police station were Kyle was interrogated was completely destroyed so there is a high possibility the video's of Kyle were too along with his prints, etc.

If you're looking at the original, unaltered timeline then the point of being able to take backups would have been moot because the Internet and backing up data was not widespread in 1997. And Kyle himself said that the vast majority of records were destroyed in Judgment Day.

However, in the current film timeline Judgment Day occurred in 2004 allowing the LAPD to back up all their data of Sarah Connor (a fugitive after the events of Terminator 2) into a computer database and other formats. The technology to transfer data from video tapes to other formats such as DVDs and computer databases was around then. And the data concerning fugitives like Sarah Connor would have been around then.

In Terminator 3 Skynet connected itself to every computer connected to the Internet, allowing itself to absorb all the information in the world before destroying it. Thus it would have all the information of Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese from 1984-2004.

And Silberman knew Kyle's name from the first film. Sarah even called him Reese right in front of Silberman in the police station. Silberman knows everything about Kyle even in the unaltered timeline. The only difference is the delay of Judgment Day and the rise of the Internet and computers which have allowed Skynet to know about Kyle Reese.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Skynet knowing more about the past throws a spanner into the works, if they know so much about past events, then they'll be able to intercept targets easier. Now what's stopping them from sending a Terminator straight to Connor's door? Revisable timelines are messy.

That my friend is where movie logic comes in where primitive Ewoks can defeat Stormtroopers that have the backing of the Galactic Empire, Jeff Goldblum can link up to an alien spacecraft and upload a virus into it with his Macintosh PowerBook 5300, four drunk/drugged men can steal Mike Tyson's tiger and sneak it into their hotel without getting noticed let along caught, and the Joker can come up with the massively detailed and elaborate plan he came up with in the Dark Knight.

 

[scatterax]

so am i the only 1 here who actually thought this movie was freakin' awesome?

 

[Solidus]

If you're looking at the original, unaltered timeline then the point of being able to take backups would have been moot because the Internet and backing up data was not widespread in 1997. And Kyle himself said that the vast majority of records were destroyed in Judgment Day.

However, in the current film timeline Judgment Day occurred in 2004 allowing the LAPD to back up all their data of Sarah Connor (a fugitive after the events of Terminator 2) into a computer database and other formats. The technology to transfer data from video tapes to other formats such as DVDs and computer databases was around then. And the data concerning fugitives like Sarah Connor would have been around then.

In Terminator 3 Skynet connected itself to every computer connected to the Internet, allowing itself to absorb all the information in the world before destroying it. Thus it would have all the information of Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese from 1984-2004.

And Silberman knew Kyle's name from the first film. Sarah even called him Reese right in front of Silberman in the police station. Silberman knows everything about Kyle even in the unaltered timeline. The only difference is the delay of Judgment Day and the rise of the Internet and computers which have allowed Skynet to know about Kyle Reese.

A few things. First especially in 2003, not all hospitals were even close to having all records on the "internet' nor do all right now either. So still there is a small chance that that would happen anyways.

Though that is the old theory I use to go with as well. But there is one problem......none of this was even close to explained in TS. That is the problem. Great theory, but sadly the writers missed that one. That is the problem. If they would have at least attempted to explain all this stuff (still Skynet would have no idea what Reese looked like young) But a good theory for sure one that I always used in T3's altered timeline. But the problem is....they never explain it, so technically this great theory isn't really canon, because they never try to explain it. They never really talk except in passing about the altered timeline. Mainly just with worried dialogue, but they never explain the details of even just the gist of it. So it still remains as plot holes.

It is a theroy I've heard a lot, and it is a great one, its just not in the movies though. And to me that is the problem with it.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

What's interesting is that in the original T4 script, Skynet knows nothing of Kyle Reese. He was just another human who was captured and sent into the concentration camps.

 

[hippie_hunter]

A few things. First especially in 2003, not all hospitals were even close to having all records on the "internet' nor do all right now either. So still there is a small chance that that would happen anyways.

Though that is the old theory I use to go with as well. But there is one problem......none of this was even close to explained in TS. That is the problem. Great theory, but sadly the writers missed that one. That is the problem. If they would have at least attempted to explain all this stuff (still Skynet would have no idea what Reese looked like young) But a good theory for sure one that I always used in T3's altered timeline. But the problem is....they never explain it, so technically this great theory isn't really canon, because they never try to explain it. They never really talk except in passing about the altered timeline. Mainly just with worried dialogue, but they never explain the details of even just the gist of it. So it still remains as plot holes.

It is a theroy I've heard a lot, and it is a great one, its just not in the movies though. And to me that is the problem with it.

But we're not talking about hospitals, we're talking about the LAPD and the FBI databases which Skynet is easily able to access to because of it's capabilities. And Pescadero was more of a prison than a hospital. The FBI and LAPD would have obtained the information from Pescadero with ease and they would have had that backed up into a computer database for sure even if Pescadero didn't.

 

[Deaths Head II]

Skynet knowing more about the past throws a spanner into the works, if they know so much about past events, then they'll be able to intercept targets easier. Now what's stopping them from sending a Terminator straight to Connor's door? Revisable timelines are messy.

Well it's a new timeline and they still don't have time machines yet. Perhaps if someone competant got the sequel, they could actually turn this into a plot point. Skynet now has increased information about the past events and them acquiring the means to go back in time might spell doom for humanity.

 

[Team Andino]

To me any minor inconstancy is thanks to time travel messing with the worlds time line. The events of T1 affected Sarah's life, T2 thus delayed Judgment day an was at the time believed to end the future war before it got started, T3 we discover some things can't be stopped only delayed an thus affecting the time line since Judgment day was suppsoe to happen in 1997 an now its 2003. Salvation has been affected now thanks to everything thats gone down. No one warned Sarah or John of a potential hybrid like Marcus Wright because in the original time line such a thing didn't exist. Hence why Conner is so shocked for once when he discovers Marcus Wright an doesn't know for the first time whats going on. I feel it gives some lea way with the time line an any possible future events since time travel has clearly affected the world.

 

[Solidus]

To me any minor inconstancy is thanks to time travel messing with the worlds time line. The events of T1 affected Sarah's life, T2 thus delayed Judgment day an was at the time believed to end the future war before it got started, T3 we discover some things can't be stopped only delayed an thus affecting the time line since Judgment day was suppose to happen in 1997 an now its 2003. Salvation has been affected now thanks to everything thats gone down. No one warned Sarah or John of a potential hybrid like Marcus Wright because in the original time line such a thing didn't exist. Hence why Conner is so shocked for once when he discovers Marcus Wright an doesn't know for the first time whats going on. I feel it gives some lea way with the time line an any possible future events since time travel has clearly affected the world.

Yes but the altered timeline was more so created with T3 using the excuse that T2 changed it. T2 had two ways it could have gone, that is why it left us with a very open ending. Sadly to me they chose the wrong path.

There is two ways people look at the original two T-movies time lines.

A. Time travel is just part of fate, it does not change anything it is cyclical in nature. Just like Harry Potter when they were going back in time it always was that way, its cyclical in nature. So there is but one fate, and everything else just plays out even though you think you might have changed something you really did not you just caused it. T1 clearly was stating this, T2 asked if you could go about it either A or B, but never really answered it. T3 and T4 clearly went with "B".

B. Time travel alters everything Back to the Future Style even though they are great movies they have many inconsistencies. But this deals with altered timelines more universes ect.

To me the way T1 and T2 were air tight was because of "A". But "B" could have worked maybe. But the thing is your guys' explanations are great, its just too bad that T3 nor T4 actually explained this, to me these films were never thought out just made with action in mind alone.

But like I said some will see it one way or another, but back in the day prior to T3 many still went with "A" as how it goes. But I guess now that is neither here nor there. But I still worry of the future of Terminator and who will take it.

Has there been other bids yet?

 

[Carnotaur3]

But we're not talking about hospitals, we're talking about the LAPD and the FBI databases which Skynet is easily able to access to because of it's capabilities. And Pescadero was more of a prison than a hospital. The FBI and LAPD would have obtained the information from Pescadero with ease and they would have had that backed up into a computer database for sure even if Pescadero didn't.

Exactly right. Sarah Connor had become a computer terrorist of the United States of America. It becoming an FBI matter would definately have happened. And any evidence connected to her (Kyle Reese, T-800, Uncle Bob) would have been added to her files.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

so am i the only 1 here who actually thought this movie was freakin' awesome?

I thought it was good, and a nice add to the series. But not great.

But everyone here seems to hate it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yes but the altered timeline was more so created with T3 using the excuse that T2 changed it. T2 had two ways it could have gone, that is why it left us with a very open ending. Sadly to me they chose the wrong path.

There is two ways people look at the original two T-movies time lines.

A. Time travel is just part of fate, it does not change anything it is cyclical in nature. Just like Harry Potter when they were going back in time it always was that way, its cyclical in nature. So there is but one fate, and everything else just plays out even though you think you might have changed something you really did not you just caused it. T1 clearly was stating this, T2 asked if you could go about it either A or B, but never really answered it. T3 and T4 clearly went with "B".

B. Time travel alters everything Back to the Future Style even though they are great movies they have many inconsistencies. But this deals with altered timelines more universes ect.

To me the way T1 and T2 were air tight was because of "A". But "B" could have worked maybe. But the thing is your guys' explanations are great, its just too bad that T3 nor T4 actually explained this, to me these films were never thought out just made with action in mind alone.

But like I said some will see it one way or another, but back in the day prior to T3 many still went with "A" as how it goes. But I guess now that is neither here nor there. But I still worry of the future of Terminator and who will take it.

Has there been other bids yet?

I think that we can all agree that Terminator 3 did make a mess of things. Especially since they even have the dates wrong from stuff that already happened in the past.

But McG and Nolan did a much better job in trying to prevent continuity flub-ubs. They explain that the United States Air Force bought Cyberdyne before Terminator 3, and while it accepted Terminator 3's delayed timeline, it tried to stick to the events of the first two movies as best as possible.

Terminator 3 had to go with option B because with what happened in Terminator 2, there was no logical way for Skynet to become operational in 1997.

Also, time travel no matter what is going to create inconsistencies. Terminator in particular because if they managed to stop Judgment Day in Terminator 2, John Connor would not exist. At all. But he clearly didn't disappear. So by the plain and simple fact of John Connor's existence, Terminator 2 also goes with option B.

EDIT: And while Terminator: Salvation doesn't go off to explain my theory outright, it's pretty obvious to deduce it based on Skynet's capabilities and actual real life history with the rise of computers and dawn the Internet Age in the late 1990's/early 2000's.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Oh and also, Terminator: Salvation showed that unlike in the original timeline where most records were destroyed due to the lack of computer backups; Skynet now does have records of the past when Marcus was researching about what happened to Serena Kogan, Judgment Day, Cyberdyne, etc.

The obvious explanation of how Skynet has those records is the plain and simple fact of the rise of the Internet Age and more advanced technology beyond 1997 taking into account of Skynet's development.

 

[Ipodman]

I thought it was good, and a nice add to the series. But not great.

But everyone here seems to hate it.

I personally thought it was above average...

 

[Solidus]

I think that we can all agree that Terminator 3 did make a mess of things. Especially since they even have the dates wrong from stuff that already happened in the past.

But McG and Nolan did a much better job in trying to prevent continuity flub-ubs. They explain that the United States Air Force bought Cyberdyne before Terminator 3, and while it accepted Terminator 3's delayed timeline, it tried to stick to the events of the first two movies as best as possible.

Terminator 3 had to go with option B because with what happened in Terminator 2, there was no logical way for Skynet to become operational in 1997.

Also, time travel no matter what is going to create inconsistencies. Terminator in particular because if they managed to stop Judgment Day in Terminator 2, John Connor would not exist. At all. But he clearly didn't disappear. So by the plain and simple fact of John Connor's existence, Terminator 2 also goes with option B.

See people ASSUME that T2 changed things. Now I'm talking in a sense prior to T3 so bear with me. The original ending of T2 was the "future coda" ending. Which was Sarah in a perfect future, with John as a senator. Later Cameron cut it out, not only being a contrast to a film they felt it did not sit right. T2's ending that we all now know, is that of Sarah's monologue. No where in there does it say they changed the future. No where. They said that she now goes forward with a sense of hope. She hopes they did, but by no means did it clearly state it, it left it ambiguous.

T2's events (remember prior to what T3 chose) could have easily been the push that put Skynet (his back up files) into the hands of the Military. (which did happen in T3 which I thought was the right way) Because Uncle Bob did say that the military had control of Skynet. So did Kyle for SAC NORAD. Yet, in T2 Dyson is clearly under the impression that he is creating Skynet as a automated pilot and something "good" for humanity, no mentioning of military at all, nor did he seem to fear it. We all know that usually the military wants things to kill. Dyson is under the impression his creation is for good. Having Dyson die frees up that, and puts it in the hands of the military. Which T3 did great on that aspect.

Because Uncle Bob does say that Skynet was used for military blah blah blah in 1997. So really there is proof to say that is the way it always went. The "fate does not change" way I always saw it was. Dyson dies in 1995, Cyberdine sells Skynet to the military, they form it for their sinister ways, and create the monster. As Uncle Bob said clearly the military operational records. Which Dyson does not even mention or seem to think of this.

So what I'm saying is easily they could have had JD happen in 1997, and it was always fate that them trying to stop Cyberdyne was really actual the thing that created and pushed Skynet into the military's hand, creating the monster we all know that kills everyone in 1997. So to me T3 still could have easily been and made more sense to be in 1997.

Now this is just how I've taken it, your opinions are good and valid, I just see it way differently.

 

[hippie_hunter]

See people ASSUME that T2 changed things. Now I'm talking in a sense prior to T3 so bear with me. The original ending of T2 was the "future coda" ending. Which was Sarah in a perfect future, with John as a senator. Later Cameron cut it out, not only being a contrast to a film they felt it did not sit right. T2's ending that we all now know, is that of Sarah's monologue. No where in there does it say they changed the future. No where. They said that she now goes forward with a sense of hope. She hopes they did, but by no means did it clearly state it, it left it ambiguous.

T2's events (remember prior to what T3 chose) could have easily been the push that put Skynet (his back up files) into the hands of the Military. (which did happen in T3 which I thought was the right way) Because Uncle Bob did say that the military had control of Skynet. So did Kyle for SAC NORAD. Yet, in T2 Dyson is clearly under the impression that he is creating Skynet as a automated pilot and something "good" for humanity, no mentioning of military at all, nor did he seem to fear it. We all know that usually the military wants things to kill. Dyson is under the impression his creation is for good. Having Dyson die frees up that, and puts it in the hands of the military. Which T3 did great on that aspect.

Because Uncle Bob does say that Skynet was used for military blah blah blah in 1997. So really there is proof to say that is the way it always went. The "fate does not change" way I always saw it was. Dyson dies in 1995, Cyberdine sells Skynet to the military, they form it for their sinister ways, and create the monster. As Uncle Bob said clearly the military operational records. Which Dyson does not even mention or seem to think of this.

So what I'm saying is easily they could have had JD happen in 1997, and it was always fate that them trying to stop Cyberdyne was really actual the thing that created and pushed Skynet into the military's hand, creating the monster we all know that kills everyone in 1997. So to me T3 still could have easily been and made more sense to be in 1997.

Now this is just how I've taken it, your opinions are good and valid, I just see it way differently.

But Sarah Connor, Uncle Bob, and Miles Dyson destroyed all the data concerning the development of Skynet and destroyed the final remains of the T-800 from the first movie which dramatically sped up the development of Skynet because the remains formed the basis of Cyberdyne's research.

It took them 11 years to get to where they were in Terminator 2 and they still had another 2 years to get Skynet online and fully operational.

With all the data, designs, and materials destroyed necessary to create Skynet, it would have been impossible for Skynet to be operational in 1997 considering that Cyberdyne and SAC-NORAD would have had to start from scratch without the original T-800's nonfunctional microprocessor to redevelop Dyson's revolutionary microprocessor, install it in most US military computer systems, test our weapons systems with Cyberdyne technology, and pass the Skynet Funding Bill, along with Cyberdyne taking the time to clean up the mess, repair the damage, and decide whether or not to even continue with the project (and even at a fast pace would take months) within 2 years.

And without the Internet Age and the rise of computer technology that we saw in the late 1990's/early 2000's Skynet would have been unable to be in it's current software based form based on 1997 technology.