The Amazing Spider-Man v.2

[kguillou]

I'll be getting the Mysterio arc purely for Martin's art, guy should be drawing ASM every month.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Well, i hope they don't actually bring him back. They already tried that, like a week after he died.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

I'll be getting the Mysterio arc purely for Martin's art, guy should be drawing ASM every month.

Yeah, he's my second favorite out of all the main artists, right after JRJR.

Who else is there? Mike McKone and Barry Kitson, right? Those two are alright.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Originally Posted by kguillou
I'll be getting the Mysterio arc purely for Martin's art, guy should be drawing ASM every month.

Marcos is an amazing artist, IMO. As I said a couple of times, he seems like he has a bit of the Ditko style in him, which is great.

 

[stillanerd]

All right, here’s what I thought about Amazing Spider-Man #609:

Spoiler

*Just like last issue, I like how there’s an actual and logical reason to have different artists for the story, as it makes all the sense in the world for one artist (in this case two) to do the flashbacks while the other depicts the events from the present day. And Checchetto, Ross, and Maygar work are both nicely rendered. Although certainly the “flashback” scenes still have the problem of making Peter and Damon look too much alike in terms of physical appearance. (I know this is a story about clones, but jeez).

*However, I’m not so sure about Guggenheim’s script though. The dialogue, at times, feels rather clunky and while Spider-Man’s banter is supposed to be on the cheesy side, some of his jokes really stunk. (I mean, “That’s REALLY by the way, not REILLY”? “[email protected]“? Excuse me while I wretch).

*The other problem Guggenheim has is that, from the looks of things, the story appears to be shaping up towards a very predictable outcome. It’s all but telegraphed that, in the flashback tale, Ryder’s family will be revealed to have perished in the fire as a result of Kaine (hiding outside the house) barging in and attacking Ben just as he’s trying to sedate the mutating Ryder. And, of course, Harry and the three Reilly girls won’t learn that Peter is really Spider-Man despite the fact he’s preparing to lift up his shirt to expose his costume (and, as Wacker revealed for issue #610, he’s in his Spidey costume sans mask in front of Ryder) because, thanks to the psychic blindspot “rules” Peter didn’t literally “remove his mask” and thus Harry and the Reilly girls will think he was “pretending” to be Spider-Man to fool and distract Ryder.

*Not that the story doesn’t have it’s moments. I like the fact that Kaine knows Peter is Spider-Man because, as the story says, it makes all the sense in the world that Peter’s clone should know since he technically is him. Same goes for the fact Ben pointing out how Stegron was the other guy who injected himself with Dinosaur DNA, something which I complained about Raptor being a knock-off of last time, so kudos to Guggenheim for having this be pointed out in the story. (Although that certainly doesn’t make Raptor any less of a half-baked 1990s inspired and derivative villain with a motivation that, when looked under scrutiny, is big enough for a…well a Dinosaur to stomp through).

*Still, there were scenes which just didn’t do it for me. Screwball calling out Spider-Man via a hacked-in video blog just seemed like nothing but pointless filler that seemed to have nothing to do with the overall story at hand (unless she winds up getting recruited by Kraven’s wife or daughter towards the end for the Gauntlet or something). Also, Peter and Michelle’s interaction only served three purposes: 1. Show that last issue’s cliffhanger was (surprise) a fake out and set-up the real threat, 2. Have an excuse for Michele to wear skimpy clothing and show off her belly-button stud, and 3. Provide yet ANOTHER instance for Michele to whine and make veiled threats at Peter over a simple misunderstanding (seriously, who is SHE to talk about him violating her privacy when she has both given his clothes away to the goodwill without his permission and mulched his personal belongings down the garbage disposal?)

So all in all, while I don’t think this is a bad story, it’s not a really great one. It’s just an average Spider-Man story with some above-average artwork that doesn’t look as though it will have much impact (unless Peter DOESN’T get out of the cliffhanger at the end).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, he's my second favorite out of all the main artists, right after JRJR.

Who else is there? Mike McKone and Barry Kitson, right? Those two are alright.

Marcos is an amazing artist, IMO. As I said a couple of times, he seems like he has a bit of the Ditko style in him, which is great.

Marcos Martin is fantastic. If you ever want to check out more of his art, I highly recommend Dr. Strange: The Oath and DC's Breach. Good comics all around, but Martin's art really makes them shine.

 

[runawayboulder]

All right, here’s what I thought about Amazing Spider-Man #609:

Spoiler

*Just like last issue, I like how there’s an actual and logical reason to have different artists for the story, as it makes all the sense in the world for one artist (in this case two) to do the flashbacks while the other depicts the events from the present day. And Checchetto, Ross, and Maygar work are both nicely rendered. Although certainly the “flashback” scenes still have the problem of making Peter and Damon look too much alike in terms of physical appearance. (I know this is a story about clones, but jeez).

*However, I’m not so sure about Guggenheim’s script though. The dialogue, at times, feels rather clunky and while Spider-Man’s banter is supposed to be on the cheesy side, some of his jokes really stunk. (I mean, “That’s REALLY by the way, not REILLY”? “[email protected]“? Excuse me while I wretch).

*The other problem Guggenheim has is that, from the looks of things, the story appears to be shaping up towards a very predictable outcome. It’s all but telegraphed that, in the flashback tale, Ryder’s family will be revealed to have perished in the fire as a result of Kaine (hiding outside the house) barging in and attacking Ben just as he’s trying to sedate the mutating Ryder. And, of course, Harry and the three Reilly girls won’t learn that Peter is really Spider-Man despite the fact he’s preparing to lift up his shirt to expose his costume (and, as Wacker revealed for issue #610, he’s in his Spidey costume sans mask in front of Ryder) because, thanks to the psychic blindspot “rules” Peter didn’t literally “remove his mask” and thus Harry and the Reilly girls will think he was “pretending” to be Spider-Man to fool and distract Ryder.

*Not that the story doesn’t have it’s moments. I like the fact that Kaine knows Peter is Spider-Man because, as the story says, it makes all the sense in the world that Peter’s clone should know since he technically is him. Same goes for the fact Ben pointing out how Stegron was the other guy who injected himself with Dinosaur DNA, something which I complained about Raptor being a knock-off of last time, so kudos to Guggenheim for having this be pointed out in the story. (Although that certainly doesn’t make Raptor any less of a half-baked 1990s inspired and derivative villain with a motivation that, when looked under scrutiny, is big enough for a…well a Dinosaur to stomp through).

*Still, there were scenes which just didn’t do it for me. Screwball calling out Spider-Man via a hacked-in video blog just seemed like nothing but pointless filler that seemed to have nothing to do with the overall story at hand (unless she winds up getting recruited by Kraven’s wife or daughter towards the end for the Gauntlet or something). Also, Peter and Michelle’s interaction only served three purposes: 1. Show that last issue’s cliffhanger was (surprise) a fake out and set-up the real threat, 2. Have an excuse for Michele to wear skimpy clothing and show off her belly-button stud, and 3. Provide yet ANOTHER instance for Michele to whine and make veiled threats at Peter over a simple misunderstanding (seriously, who is SHE to talk about him violating her privacy when she has both given his clothes away to the goodwill without his permission and mulched his personal belongings down the garbage disposal?)

So all in all, while I don’t think this is a bad story, it’s not a really great one. It’s just an average Spider-Man story with some above-average artwork that doesn’t look as though it will have much impact (unless Peter DOESN’T get out of the cliffhanger at the end).

I agree with a lot of what you said. Good issue overall.

Spidey's jokes were pretty weak. They (the writers) should try to tone him down a bit. Don't get me wrong, I know it's the biggest quality of the character to crack jokes, just tone it down a liiiiiiiiittle bit. He's a superhero, not a stand up comic. He doesn't have to be funny 24/7.

Looking forward to the conclusion. And if I was Pete, I'd keep boning Michelle....f-it.

 

[kguillou]

Its just Guggenheim that writes him that way. His jokes are soooo annoying and stupid, he makes spidey sound like a 5 year old. Most of the other writers, like Slott and Kelly, have a solid voice for Spidey.

 

[Kitsune]

Its just Guggenheim that writes him that way. His jokes are soooo annoying and stupid, he makes spidey sound like a 5 year old. Most of the other writers, like Slott and Kelly, have a solid voice for Spidey.

Well Joe Q did say he wanted Spidey to seem younger <ducks>

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Its just Guggenheim that writes him that way. His jokes are soooo annoying and stupid, he makes spidey sound like a 5 year old. Most of the other writers, like Slott and Kelly, have a solid voice for Spidey.

Kelly can make Spidey funny, it seems (although I really didnt care for American Son at all), but Zeb Wells has my heart when it comes to the funniness

Also, although Im sure everyone here disagrees with me completely, but whatever you guys suck. Bendis writes a pretty funny Spidey in Ultimate and in New Avengers.

Seriously, I just read Spider-Man for the jokes

 

[Kitsune]

. Bendis writes a pretty funny Spidey in Ultimate and in New Avengers.

Corrected.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Pffffft.

 

[kguillou]

I will say Bendis does occasionally give 616 Spidey some hilarious lines. I love the part in New Avengers #1 where Spidey is talking to Cap and it went something like:
Cap: Spiderman! What's going on here?
Spidey: I give up, what's going on here?
Cap: I have no time for Smartass!

Otherwise, Bendis writes 616 Spidey too much like his teenage, ultimate counterpart.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Haha

I enjoy the fact that Spidey is the annoying one in the group, it works well for him. He's really the main reason I read New Avengers. And hey, its not like Ultimate counterpart is that much more different than him, outside of being a teenager and maybe a little more naive (but not much, regular Spidey acts naive too).

 

[kguillou]

Well...yes and no. Yes spidey is definitely a 'comic relief' type of superhero but to a point. Writers seem to forget that Spiderman is one of the smartest marvel heroes. Intellectually, he outclasses everyone on his team, heck he should probably even be the leader of the group.

I don't know if you ever watched the 90's Spiderman cartoon but there's a story arc called 'Secret wars' where Spiderman leads his own group of superheroes consisting of Captain America, FF4, ironman, storm and a couple others. It was a GREAT story because it showed that while Spider-man may be the jokester of the marvel universe, he is also more than capable of leading the best of marvel's heroes if he wanted to.

Thats why i kind of get irked sometimes when the writers downplay his character to this whiny, giddy, happy-go-lucky manchild. Thats fine for ultimate spidey but 616 spiderman has gone through so much growth over the years that its sad to see him sold short. I have yet to see Spidey make any real contribution to the new avengers. Has anyone else?

 

[Saved]

I actually like the Man-child aspect better. If I want a serious adult hero to read, I pick up an issue of Captain America.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Well...yes and no. Yes spidey is definitely a 'comic relief' type of superhero but to a point. Writers seem to forget that Spiderman is one of the smartest marvel heroes. Intellectually, he outclasses everyone on his team, heck he should probably even be the leader of the group.

I don't know if you ever watched the 90's Spiderman cartoon but there's a story arc called 'Secret wars' where Spiderman leads his own group of superheroes consisting of Captain America, FF4, ironman, storm and a couple others. It was a GREAT story because it showed that while Spider-man may be the jokester of the marvel universe, he is also more than capable of leading the best of marvel's heroes if he wanted to.

Thats why i kind of get irked sometimes when the writers downplay his character to this whiny, giddy, happy-go-lucky manchild. Thats fine for ultimate spidey but 616 spiderman has gone through so much growth over the years that its sad to see him sold short. I have yet to see Spidey make any real contribution to the new avengers. Has anyone else?

Meh, Spidey may be smart, but I don't really care for him being a leader. He's always best as a loner. Sure he can lead every once in a while but I wouldnt want him as the main leader of the Avengers, it would take away from his other qualities. Also, the 90's cartoon kind of sucked.

And Spidey does show his smarts, he clearly seems like the most experienced of the group as he brings up his previous run-ins with whoever they're dealing with at the time. Plus he held his ground recently when Hawkeye was going on about killing Norman Osborn.

 

[kguillou]

I wouldnt want him to lead the avengers either, i was just making a point. I know i sound like i'm being nitpicky but all i'm saying is Spiderman is so much more than a blabbering jokester. I would like Bendis to once in a while show how formidable spidey really is and actually contribute to the team rather than just be the annoying comic relief guy. After all, spiderman has beaten pretty much every marvel hero and villain several times.

 

[Saved]

Spider-Man makes the jokes because deep down he's really scared but he knows he'll pull through whatever he's facing alive. He quips to keep going, not cause he's a stand up comedian. That's why he's competant enough to take out major supervillains.

 

[kguillou]

I know but some of the writers really abuse his humor though. I mean when I was reading the latest issue, i couldnt stand Guggenheim's voice for him. He sounded like a bad stand up comedian. I was like "Please just SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY." I feel like the villain is the one supposed to be annoyed not the reader. I dunno maybe I just dont like Guggenheim's jokes, cause i dont have this problem when i read Dan Slott's, Zeb Well's or JMS' humor.

 

[Saved]

Well, then it comes down to personal preference writer wise. I haven't read 609 yet, so I can't comment on the writing/jokes.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

I know but some of the writers really abuse his humor though. I mean when I was reading the latest issue, i couldnt stand Guggenheim's voice for him. He sounded like a bad stand up comedian. I was like "Please just SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY." I feel like the villain is the one supposed to be annoyed not the reader. I dunno maybe I just dont like Guggenheim's jokes, cause i dont have this problem when i read Dan Slott's, Zeb Well's or JMS' humor.

That reminds me of that Paul Jenkins PPSM issue where Peter tries to do standup, and fails pretty miserably. It was as funny as it was sad.

I didn't read the issue yet either. I dont think Slott really makes Spidey all that funny, but his attempts are the least offensive. And his Spider-Man/Human Torch mini was funny. Waid did a two part teamup with Spidey in his FF run that had some good jokes, and Kelly's first story in Spidey was great.

But still, Zeb Wells. The Spider-Buggy story in #600 was hilarious

 

[stillanerd]

Well, might as well bump on this thread and talk about what I thought of ASM 610, which was the concluding chapter of "Who Was Ben Reilly?":

Spoiler

*One good thing I’ll say about this issue is that Guggenheim does a decent job with parallel narratives, as was the case throughout all of this story arc. Here, the narratives are even more or less mirror images: One involves a confrontation between Ben and Damon, interrupted by Kaine, which causes the Ryder’s house to catch fire, and Damon’s family to be in danger. The other involves a confrontation between Peter and Damon (now Raptor) interrupted by Kaine (and Screwball), which causes Aunt May’s house to catch fire, and Peter’s cousins (and Harry) to be in danger. Also (and this is something I just realized) since the story involves clones, it makes the idea of both stories being virtually similar, albeit with different circumstances and outcomes, that more symbolic.

*Unfortunately, what brings this issue (and the whole story arc) down is it’s predictability. Of course, Ben is revealed to be entirely innocent and that the fire was started once Kaine burst into the room. And of course, Harry and the Reilly girls didn’t learn Peter was Spider-Man thanks, once again, to Kaine barging in. The only surprises was that Damon was the one who actually killed his family due to going temporarily insane from the dinosaur DNA injection (which, given his prior behavior, didn‘t seem all that shocking) and the second was that Peter, prior to arriving at the house, had contacted Screwball to take her up on her challenge, which explains why she was in this story arc to begin with (although technically it could have been any C-list super villain really). At least that showed Peter’s ability to plan ahead knowing he was likely to walk into a trap, so it’s good Guggenheim showed that aspect of Peter’s character.

*But, just as Screwball, because she was really a device used to set-up the climax, made her seem disposable, there were quite a few characters in this story who also were nothing more than plot devices and could have been exchanged for any other character, it seems to me. For one thing, wouldn’t the scene at Parker household been far more effective if it was Aunt May and J. Jonah Jameson Senior instead of Harry and the Reilly girls? After all, we DID get a scene showing May and Jay on their honeymoon about to come back to New York, so why not follow up on that in this story? And, thinking back to last issue, wouldn’t it have been more effective to have Raptor encounter Mary Jane instead of Michele? Not only would we have had a follow-up to MJ’s reaction towards her seeing Spidey and the Black Cat kiss on the JumboTron in Kelly’s “Long Term Arrangement” story, but, considering how MJ also knew the truth behind the Clone Saga and actually knew Ben and was close friends with him, it would have been great to see her reaction to Raptor’s claims. And finally, Raptor himself was disposable, as it seems he was merely just an excuse to reintroduce Kaine back into the Spidey books, especially since it appears Kaine strangles Raptor to death at the conclusion of the story.

*There was also problems in that a series of unanswered questions arose which seemed to be real plot holes. For one thing, why, after Kaine unmasks Spider-Man does Raptor STILL think Peter’s Ben Reilly? Remember, the way we’ve been told the psychic blindspot works, is that once Spider-Man is unmasked, the those who had prior knowledge that Peter was Spider-Man would regain it. And since Peter unmasked himself at a live TV press conference, the whole world knew he was Spider-Man, hence the reason behind the psychic blindspot in the first place. So you mean to tell me that Raptor, ever since his family died, NEVER watched TV, read a newspaper, surfed online, NOTHING? He was the only one in the whole world who didn’t know about Spidey unmasking during Civil War? Or is it because he’s insane and, therefore, the psychic blindspot doesn’t work on him? But if that’s the case, why are other insane people--like the Green Goblin for instance--still get effected by the blindspot? Also, Kaine STILL thinks Peter is the clone and Ben was the original? I guess that makes some sense, given that he was in prison during the time it was revealed Ben was the clone all along. But it doesn’t really add to Kaine’s motivation, since he flat out states “there’s no difference between [Peter and Ben].” And speaking of which, Peter states that Ben wasn’t a killer because he himself isn’t a killer. And yet, Kaine, being a clone of Peter himself, tells Ben in the flashback that he and Ben are “the same person,” and since he is capable of cold blooded murder, wouldn’t that also make Peter and Ben capable as well? Heck, even Peter hints at this earlier when he says “It’s what’s always bothered me about Kaine--whatever Ben was capable of…I am too.” Sorry, Guggenheim, you can’t have it both ways on this one.

*Even the art, in places, just didn’t seem to be up to par. Checchetto was all right in places, although there were times it just seemed stiff, such as when Screwball burst through the window, or when Peter was thrown by Kaine through the wall. However, when it came to Ross and Magyar, it just seemed completely off. The scenes felt too “clean,” generic, and lacking any sense of dynamism, save for when Kaine appeared in the flames with his hair and beard completely singed. Considering how this issue was actually delayed, you would think this would have given them time to actually improve things artistically.

Let me stress that this is not a bad story. Yet, being that it’s Guggenheim’s last tale for Amazing Spider-Man (save for that Jackpot mini series coming out) it feels like a very lackluster, paint-by-numbers one for his “swan song.” Secondly, this story was also supposed to reintroduce elements of the Clone Saga back into the new status quo of Brand New Day, and it seemed like it was more of a half-hearted attempt rather than a genuine effort. Maybe it’s due primarily to the brain trust/webheads putting more of their energy into “The Gauntlet,” but it appears we’ve gone into another uninspired lull for this title, and if Marvel really want people to embrace the creative direction they’ve done for Spider-Man--which they’re still having problems with almost two years after One More Day--they better step up their game.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Well...yes and no. Yes spidey is definitely a 'comic relief' type of superhero but to a point. Writers seem to forget that Spiderman is one of the smartest marvel heroes. Intellectually, he outclasses everyone on his team, heck he should probably even be the leader of the group.

I don't know if you ever watched the 90's Spiderman cartoon but there's a story arc called 'Secret wars' where Spiderman leads his own group of superheroes consisting of Captain America, FF4, ironman, storm and a couple others. It was a GREAT story because it showed that while Spider-man may be the jokester of the marvel universe, he is also more than capable of leading the best of marvel's heroes if he wanted to.

Thats why i kind of get irked sometimes when the writers downplay his character to this whiny, giddy, happy-go-lucky manchild. Thats fine for ultimate spidey but 616 spiderman has gone through so much growth over the years that its sad to see him sold short. I have yet to see Spidey make any real contribution to the new avengers. Has anyone else?

The Agents of Atlas vs. NA was the best showing of Spider-Man. Yeah he was funny but also actually competant.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

the writer who got me into Spiderman was JMS. I always found his dialogue to be absolutely...well, amazing. that plus JRJR's fantastic work made that one of my favorite runs of all time. up until Sins Past.

I just don't think any of the writers/artists now have the same feel for Spidey as those two did together. that said, I am loving McKone and Martin the most.