The Atheism Thread - Part 6

[Breogan]

But the point was that it would have advanced anyway. The fact that some religious fanatics had rolled into town to chop a few hands off and stone a few women does not credit their belief system with the advances coincidentally made in mathematics etc.

It's no coincidence. They Islamic civilization preserved and advanced it.


And please your attempted summing up of their (or any) civilization as just...

.... rolled into town to chop a few hands off and stone a few women

is just ignorant hatemongering.

 

[regwec]

It's no coincidence. They Islamic civilization preserved and advanced it.

Who is "they"?

You appear to be willfully ignoring the point that there are 1,001 contributing factors to intellectual advancement. I have never once heard a convincing argument that the enforcement of a new iconoclastic religious doctrine on the urban centres of the Near East (or the former Sassanian state) was the primary cause of their intellectual advancement. The idea becomes rather perplexing when you consider that they had been intellectually advancing for centuries.

And please your attempted summing up of their (or any) civilization as just...
is just ignorant hatemongering.

Where did I claim that I was "summing up their civilisation"? Whose civilisation? What I was doing was characterising the likely initial impact of the first wave of conquering Arabs on the East Roman cities.

 

[The End]

edit

 

[Dr.]

Everyone hopefully/ideally has the right to take it or leave it as they will. The problem comes from those (both extremes for it and against it) saying there's only one way to interpret it. What they mean is "my way".

I think there’s only one, relevant “extreme” - scriptural literalists/fundamentalists. If religious types were more private and/or more “sophisticated” and “metaphorical” about their personal beliefs, the modern atheist “opposition” would look vastly different (arguably, it wouldn’t exist at all). Moreover, critiquing extremism doesn’t make the critic - by some weird symmetry - equivalently extreme. By that logic, a staunch and vocal opponent of racism is racist, an opponent of sexism is sexist.

In terms of “respect”… prejudice deserves none. And prejudice based on a holy book doesn’t magically - and uniquely - become acceptable. Nor should it be granted automatic immunity from condemnation.

 

[The End]

You make a good point, Dr.

We see all the time how the religious right tries to push their views into, well, everything. From social policies to education to science; and they react very poorly when they're told, well, no, your creationist nonsense has no place here (for example).

Israel/Palestine wouldn't be what it is, if people didn't believe they had a divine right to that land.

There's all sorts of examples of religion imposing negatively on society and it's left many atheists mistrustful of religion as a concept entirely.

 

[Feenix]

You make a good point, Dr.

We see all the time how the religious right tries to push their views into, well, everything. From social policies to education to science; and they react very poorly when they're told, well, no, your creationist nonsense has no place here (for example).

Israel/Palestine wouldn't be what it is, if people didn't believe they had a divine right to that land.

There's all sorts of examples of religion imposing negatively on society and it's left many atheists mistrustful of religion as a concept entirely.

That's the thing that gets me, too. How many lives have been cut short because these 2 sides are so entrenched in their interpretations of certain books.

 

[Breogan]

By that logic, a staunch and vocal opponent of racism is racist, an opponent of sexism is sexist..

No you got it wrong, to say "a staunch and vocal opponent of racism is racist" and "an opponent of sexism is sexist."
Is not logical.

The extreme comparisons by logic would be, a staunch and vocal opponent of any one race, over another race is racist. ...an opponent of one sex(or sexual preference) over another sex(or sexual preference) is sexist(...phobic).

What you describe is not racism or sexism.

... a staunch and vocal opponent of racism is racist, an opponent of sexism is sexist..

Israel/Palestine wouldn't be what it is, if people didn't believe they had a divine right to that land.

How many lives have been cut short because these 2 sides are so entrenched in their interpretations of certain books.

That's only part of it, people also use, treaties, deeds, politics, secular means, etc. to justify their claims there. Not just religion.

Your trying to blame everything on religion is ridiculous.

I'm atheist but I can recognize allot of great thinkers and ideas came from people who were spiritual, superstitious, illummasonic(word?), deistic, religious, believers in allot of cooky, flaky stuff, what have you.
Once you start just "condemning" it all, you go down a nasty path.

... Nor should it be granted automatic immunity from condemnation.

Dude practice what you want, and don't let anyone tell you what to practice or not, but with all the "condemning" you sound just like the other "extreme".

 

[The End]

Being critical of religion isn't extreme. That's absurd. And to deny the role that religion plays in these conflicts is also absurd. Are there other factors? Sure. Is religion one of the main ones? Sure is.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I don't think the situation in Palestine is all about religion. The situation in Kashmir on the other hand...

 

[regwec]

The partition of Pakistan and India is one of the neatest illustrations of the divisive power of organised religion. It also represents one of history's unhappy instances of families being cloven asunder by a new and previously needless border.

 

[Dr.]

No you got it wrong, to say "a staunch and vocal opponent of racism is racist" and "an opponent of sexism is sexist."
Is not logical.

The extreme comparisons by logic would be, a staunch and vocal opponent of any one race, over another race is racist. ...an opponent of one sex(or sexual preference) over another sex(or sexual preference) is sexist(...phobic).

What you describe is not racism or sexism.

Apologies that my analogies didn’t work for you. Obviously - as secondary comparisons - they weren’t supposed to distract you from the main point: that opposing the extremes of scriptural literalism and fundamentalism does not make one, in turn, extreme.

Dude practice what you want, and don't let anyone tell you what to practice or not, but with all the "condemning" you sound just like the other "extreme".

See above.

 

[Piper Maru]

Check out Star Wars and Noah's Ark on Youtube by a user named 43alley, it's pretty interesting!

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Any of you guys see this? I just found it in the gay rights thread, though it might be relevant here. Absolutely horrifying.

[YT]qcM6GI0TUMQ[/YT]

 

[Feenix]

Merry Christmas, fellow heathens!

Just remember, on this day, Isaac Newton was born.

 

[Shikamaru]

Merry Christmas, fellow atheists! t:

 

[Piper Maru]

Merry Christmas to my fellow nonbelievers.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Merry Christmas my fellow heathens

 

[The End]

Any of you guys see this? I just found it in the gay rights thread, though it might be relevant here. Absolutely horrifying.

[YT]qcM6GI0TUMQ[/YT]

It's terrifying on multiple levels.

On one level, its as though religion is being used as this sort of backdoor colonialism.

It's also just terrifying to see people in the west, well off and well educated and should really know a lot better, openly trying to justify the death penalty for homosexuality.

 

[Piper Maru]

Guys, I'm a proudly labeled Agnostic Atheist. I hope it's okay with you guys!

 

[Thundercrack85]

Guys, I'm a proudly labeled Agnostic Atheist. I hope it's okay with you guys!

We don't take kindly to your types in here.

 

[Piper Maru]

You're so closed minded to new ideas and concepts.....you self-labeled Atheist!

 

[E-Man]

We don't take kindly to your types in here.

Now now Skeeter they ain't hurtin' nobody.

 

[Piper Maru]

I am so drawing the line in the sand!

 

[Piper Maru]

Jesus and the Interpreter. A modern-day christian helps Jesus get started.
[YT]5mLOUWl-L-s[/YT]Modern-day Christians know Jesus so well, that this one decided to travel back in time to help Jesus get his message across right from the start. Those people back in Jesus' time might have mistaken Jesus' own words as actually representing what he really meant! And we wouldn't want that!

 

[Feenix]

Just remember guys, something as simple as this:

could be exaggerated into miraculous healing and resurrection.