Atheism: Love it or Leave it? - Part 3

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I'm sure that this has been asked before but I'll ask again anyway.

In light of all of the scientific advances that humanity has made, why do believers still believe so strongly in a deity? So much of what we have learned seems to disprove or at least contradict what religious texts say.

You are looking at it logically instead of emotionally. Faith fills a need a lot of people have, a need to believe that there is meaning in what is the seemingly meaningless.

When I was 16, I was diagnosed with a rare autoimmune disease, and suffered from kidney failure, and during those years I met a lot of terminally ill kids and their parents, including parents who lost their children. A great deal of these parents could only get through their daily lives believing that what happened has some sort of purpose, even if it was one they couldn't understand, and that they would be reunited with their children in the next life.

I'm an atheist, but I completely understand why people need to have faith in something bigger that can provide meaning when dealing with meaningless horror.
 
All of her or his reasons were stupid. I think my IQ dropped by 10 points after I read the first reason.

"If evolution was true, then people wouldn't need to sleep."

Reading it a second time has put me in a pissy mood.

"1. If evolution is true, then the opposite of evolution should be false. An antonym of evolution would be inactivity, or idleness. If evolution was true, then there wouldn't be any form of inactivity upon this earth.
However, every person needs to sleep every night. Sleeping or resting is a form of inactivity. Therefore, if evolution was true, then people wouldn't need to sleep."

The brain is active when we sleep...it's how we dream.

But as this quote shows...some brains are inactive when they're awake.
 

I read like half, I'll read rest later. There's a woman in comments section who is pissed. "How dare you call these parts of Revelations a myth!" I thought people could say what they wanted in America? "The Rapture is near!" and like my people, Conspiracy Theorists, we keep saying a NWO will rise. Hasn't happened. Don't see a Rapture happening. Just a story. Mythical Tales, I realize that now.
 
You are looking at it logically instead of emotionally. Faith fills a need a lot of people have, a need to believe that there is meaning in what is the seemingly meaningless.

When I was 16, I was diagnosed with a rare autoimmune disease, and suffered from kidney failure, and during those years I met a lot of terminally ill kids and their parents, including parents who lost their children. A great deal of these parents could only get through their daily lives believing that what happened has some sort of purpose, even if it was one they couldn't understand, and that they would be reunited with their children in the next life.

I'm an atheist, but I completely understand why people need to have faith in something bigger that can provide meaning when dealing with meaningless horror.

This is where I am pretty much too. I am not truly Atheist as much as Agnostic with Atheist leanings.

I can understand why some want to believe in some perfect afterlife where all pain will go away. I would think people would have at least thought up a better, more logically consistent mythology for it though.

The amount of your brain use that must be suspended to believe what the average bible thumper thinks is astounding. Hard to imagine they can walk and breath at the same time. Much of what they believe isn't even supported by their own deity (either of them).

If people are going to make up nonsense to believe in, at least put some thought into it.
 
That rhetoric about the Book of Revelation where it's needed for Israel to be a nation again so that the Messiah can return is not really new. It was part of the Zionist movement started in the late 19th century. The British and Americans endorsed the idea the most and after World War II created that idea for a reason. It was around this time that the current idea that Russia/Soviet Union, the Arab states, and others would invade Israel and bring about a new world order. Conservative Republicans have never liked the UN or League of Nations brought about by Democrats like Woodrow Wilson and F.D. Rooselvelt because it actually makes the United States accountable for things it does wrong around the world. How many corporations who are made up of this type of political leadership would like that interferring with their policies of war. human rights, and the environment? If they can't keep using the military industrial complex backed up by religion to scare their paritioners into thinking a new world order of some sort is coming than they would lose much of their profits due to logical questionining of their business practices and how they earn a profit. They would be challenged on their political ties too if there was a free thinking society without religion to scare them into submission and endorse what they wish American foreign policy to be.
 
Oh, I don't disbelieve you. But Santorum claims to be a Catholic at least.

The guy seems to forget he's not Protestant whenever it suits him.

I'm becoming convinced that Santorum's not actually Catholic. I've seen the video as well (though it's been a while), and he seems quite comfy with the idea of the rapture. Plus, look at who Santorum had open one of his recent addresses, and how he responded to JFK's famous speech about how his (JFK's) Catholicism would not affect his ability to be a good President. If Santorum was a Catholic, he's certainly quietly converting over to Protestantism now, though strictly for political reasons.

I wouldn't abandon mine. I can see Pagans, Wiccans, Hindu's, Buddhists being around still. Correct me if wrong, but Hindu's...aren't they kinda athiest in a way? And Buddhists are like...one with the Earth...monks...Imma wiki those two.

As far as I know, Buddhists are closer to being atheists than Hindus, who are mostly Polytheistic, although I did end up in a debate (on either Political-Forum or City-Data) which showed me that I know very little about Hinduism, so I could be wrong.

Pagan religions, Wicca, Buddhism, and Hinduism would adapt quite easily, but I think the adaption would cause wild enough changes that they'd barely resemble what we think of them now.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism would be gone. There's no way they could survive... at least, not in their current forms.

I think you're pretty much correct.

Anyway, I discovered this on twitter today.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11837410-why-evolution-is-still-a-theory

Possibly the dumbest attempt to refute evolution I have ever seen. I registered there for the sole purpose of leaving a comment on that article.

It's really so stupid that I am bamboozled as to how someone can be that dumb.

I commented under my usual handle, NateHevens. I'm convinced this article is a Poe.

You are looking at it logically instead of emotionally. Faith fills a need a lot of people have, a need to believe that there is meaning in what is the seemingly meaningless.

This is true, but it bothers me a bit, because I don't understand how scientific facts like the fact that we are made out of stars, or the fact that the set of DNA that makes up one person actually allows for the possibility of billions upon billions of people to exist, which means each individual exists despite extremely large odds against their existence, can be considered "meaningless"...

When I was 16, I was diagnosed with a rare autoimmune disease, and suffered from kidney failure, and during those years I met a lot of terminally ill kids and their parents, including parents who lost their children. A great deal of these parents could only get through their daily lives believing that what happened has some sort of purpose, even if it was one they couldn't understand, and that they would be reunited with their children in the next life.
Again, I find this viewpoint odd. It's like the people who turned to God after losing loved ones in 9/11. How come not one of them turned around and questioned why God allow(ed)(s) this in the first place?

I'm an atheist, but I completely understand why people need to have faith in something bigger that can provide meaning when dealing with meaningless horror.
I don't understand. I don't think these reasons are legitimate. As Tim Minchin asks in his beat poem "Storm":

Isn't this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable
Natural world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made myths and monsters?

So I don't accept that people need faith to cope. I think they think they need it. I think they want it. But I refuse to accept that religious faith is a legitimate need. It isn't.
 
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A friend of my friend actually got de-baptized. First time I heard about that.
 
I think you're pretty much correct.

Anyway, I discovered this on twitter today.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11837410-why-evolution-is-still-a-theory

Possibly the dumbest attempt to refute evolution I have ever seen. I registered there for the sole purpose of leaving a comment on that article.

It's really so stupid that I am bamboozled as to how someone can be that dumb.

Okay. Now I'm convinced this guy's a Poe.

Check out his profile, and look at his contributions to AllVoices.com:
http://www.allvoices.com/users/ahol888

Specifically, read this very short piece he wrote:
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11850678-he-was-murdered-for-you

Notice the very last line in the article? "See, I told you it was corny".

He drops a lot of clues that this stuff isn't serious, if you know how to look.

Never forget Poe's Law:
Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.
 
So I don't accept that people need faith to cope. I think they think they need it. I think they want it. But I refuse to accept that religious faith is a legitimate need. It isn't.

I agree, I can't see a single reason why anyone would NEED to believe in God.

I can see there is a need to believe in an afterlife when dealing with grief.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have lost someone dear to them, and perhaps would be devestated enough to kill themselves if it weren't for their belief that they are not really 'gone'. That maybe they will see them again.

So perhaps in cases like that it can be argued that an allowance for belief in something 'more' than human life is neccesary.

But there's no need for God IMO.
 
If there did exist a personal God, he'd certainly have a lot to answer for.
 
Well if God really does exist and the bibles right... We're the one's who will have a lot to answer for :funny:
What if God exists but the bible is mostly wrong? another option to consider:cwink:
 
Whether or not there's a personal God, or God of any kind, I don't think that says anything for the Bible, which of course seem to have so many plot holes and contradictions it makes bad Hollywood scripts look coherent.
 
Well if God really does exist and the bibles right... We're the one's who will have a lot to answer for :funny:

If that happened, I think I may say the smart aleck answer of "This isn't Pokemon, can't collect them all. People are gonna believe in what they want to, but you're all knowing so you should had known that people would go into other religions, or question them all, or even not believe."

Do people wake up in Heaven or do they wait in line to be judged at the Gates by Saint Peter?
 
What if God exists but the bible is mostly wrong? another option to consider:cwink:

Well would he really have let it go this far? I mean how long can you listen to people misrepresenting you befor you just have to say 'ENOUGH!', you're describing me ALL WRONG!'

If that happened, I think I may say the smart aleck answer of "This isn't Pokemon, can't collect them all. People are gonna believe in what they want to, but you're all knowing so you should had known that people would go into other religions, or question them all, or even not believe."

Then he shall smite you down! :hehe:
 
You guys do realize that Christianity isn't the only religion, right? Quite a few people have stepped up since Christ's day, and said that a god spoke to them, and told them the "real" truth.
 
In my opinion, religion is at best a way for people to cope with/understand a world that can lack fairness or meaning. At worst, it is a powerful machine used to subordinate certain classes while keeping the "moral majority" in power. That's why I want nothing to do with it.

To me, believing in religion is like believing in Santa Clause: it's nice to believe and might temporarily make you act better, but it's not a necessary ingredient to a good life. Religion is not morality. We don't need the Bible to tell us how to treat each other. And we surely don't need the Bible telling us how to mistreat certain people.

It makes me sick that religion has skewed American politics to the point that we actually celebrate laws that deny gay citizens their basic rights. We allow the religious establishment to tell us that only nuclear families headed by a heterosexual couple counts as a "real family". We allow churches to not cover their employees' birth control, even though those employees want and need it. And these politicians and preachers tell us that they are the ultimate arbiters of morality. You have to laugh not to cry.

So when I see people saying, "live and let live", I have my doubts. Religion is being actively used to hurt people all over the world. It's not as simple as "you believe what you want, and I'll do the same." Until Judeo-Christian principles stop influencing American policy at a high level, that argument doesn't hold water.

And I don't see my moral viewpoint (that you should treat all people decently and not do things to hurt others without provocation) being used to deny anyone their civil rights. Sorry for the rant, but the influence of religion on politics and law is so damaging, and no one seems all that concerned about it.
 
I really doubt people are against gay marriage because of the bible. After all, most people who quote it, don't even know what the word Leviticus means. They just use it to justify their beliefs.

Maybe it's a chicken / egg thing. But ultimately people dictate the religion, not vice versa.
 
To me, believing in religion is like believing in Santa Clause: it's nice to believe and might temporarily make you act better, but it's not a necessary ingredient to a good life. Religion is not morality. We don't need the Bible to tell us how to treat each other. And we surely don't need the Bible telling us how to mistreat certain people.

Don't bring Santa into this. At least he's good for goodness' sake.


:BA:BA:BA
 
A lot of the conversations I've had with theists in real life when atheism is brought up usually revolve around a couple of main points. There 'has' to be an afterlife. There just has to be. Life is depressing without the idea of an afterlife. What's the point of living? Your life has a purpose.

It's usually emotional arguments like that. What I found very recently when I was talking to a theist girl in real life was that, while our conversation was very civil and even fun, I kinda felt like what I was saying to her was going in one ear and out the other.

She brought up the point that life must be depressing without the idea of an afterlife.

To which I responded - we both have the SAME evidence. That evidence being that as far as we are both currently aware, this life is all we have.

This life is all the more important and every moment all the more precious because its all there is. Its all the more important to enjoy the limited time you have.

She pretty much said, 'isn't it depressing there won't be an afterlife?' not 5 seconds after I said all of that.

Nabokov has a great passage somewhere--I think in his Speak, Memory--about life being a brief stretch between two eternal voids, the before and after for each of us, and about his doomed efforts to insert himself beyond time's veil or whatever his metaphor is. At one point he feels fright at regarding homemade films of his family made before he was born, because of how unchanged the world seemed in his pre-natal absence. What especially scares him is a glimpse of his soon-to-be baby carriage, the emptiness of which reminds him of his eventual coffin.
 
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