The Batman General News & Discussion Thread

[flickchick85]

First Supergirl, now Batman. The rumor mill’s determined to put these heroes in the 1970’s, lol. Hey maybe that’s how the DCEU gets rebooted! A whole 1970’s universe!

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Wasn't this movie also being rumored to take place in the 90s?

 

[Invader Joker]

I can't say I'd be a big fan. There needs to be a decent reasoning for a particular time period Batman if it's as recent as the 1970s. It's not like Gaslight where it's literally Batman in a very different point in history, in what is clearly a different version of Gotham with it being more like Victorian London. There's no real point in setting Batman in the 1970s, there's nothing to gain from it. In all honesty, there's not much point in even blatantly stating when The Batman takes place. Maybe before when it was still a Battfleck prequel, but not anymore.

It'd mainly have to do with technology I think.
Back in the 70s, if you wanted to catch a serial killer you needed to do insane amounts of detective work, which is why a lot of them existed.
Nowadays serial killers can't even exist because it's so easy to catch them with modern technologies.

 

[DeadlyWest]

It'd mainly have to do with technology I think.
Back in the 70s, if you wanted to catch a serial killer you needed to do insane amounts of detective work, which is why a lot of them existed.
Nowadays serial killers can't even exist because it's so easy to catch them with modern technologies.

I guess it'd make more sense from that context. But that just depends on how they handle the Riddler (if he's the main villain of the story). Given he's meant to be Batman's smartest foe, it wouldn't surprise me if they basically pull a reverse of the modern tech by simply having him be one step ahead of everyone else, even Batman to an extent. Hell, him being so impossible to catch even with modern tech could arguably work out in his favour for making him into a good villain in terms of competence.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

You keep looking at things through the confining restraints of the viewpoints of mortals, of one tiny society in the grand scheme, and frankly, I don’t know how else to say it to make you see beyond that, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’m fine with the idea of both sides sitting down and agreeing to new laws on Earth for gods, but they haven’t, and when they have tried, it’s been all about humans trying to exert control and claim power, which never ends well. And to put it bluntly, Zeus shouldn’t have to worry about that **** when deciding to help the mortal world. We are at HIS mercy, not the other way around. He’s the one holding US accountable. I’m talking specifically about the primary members of the Justice League who are all gods (in terms of power AND perspective - they’ve all seen/experienced worlds, concepts and sensations far beyond those of humans on Earth; it’s not just “because powers.” It’s an entirely different and non-human existence SHAPED by those powers) except Batman, and who hold each other accountable because they’re the only ones on this planet qualified to do so. The Greek Gods have their own rules and codes to live by, just like the JL. Again, we bring ‘em down to our level, we open up way too many complications to count (you’ve named a few yourself) and bring out the worst in ourselves in the process. Just let them do their thing while we do ours, and be thankful they’re here to help instead of the opposite.

And no one’s “imposing their will on others.” They’re simply holding us to the standards we’ve imposed on ourselves. But in order to do that effectively, they have to live by their own. Because we look up at at them and expect more from them. Because no humans see any of them as “one of us.”

Batman and what he does is NOT the same. I don’t know how else to say it, and we’re officially going in circles.

Well, as stated before, that's partly because a good share of the characters we're discussing here are, in fact, described in popular fiction as mortals/humans themselves, which runs somewhat contrary to your viewpoint. Extraordinary humans, enhanced humans, but humans no less. There are even comics like Darkseid War, where Diana alludes to the differences between ordinary people, metahumans (of which I'm mostly referring to), and actual gods like Orion and Highfather. Hell, even in the latest Terminator movie, when Sarah Connor disparaging refers to Grace, a new cyborg character, as a machine, Grace insists that she was merely enhanced, and is therefore still human, unlike Schwarzenegger's "Carl", who was never human to begin with.

Another thing is that, as mentioned before, we're talking about fictional beings here, fictional beings written by humans; fictional beings made for human consumption. Many of them possess notable human characteristics down to their physical anatomies and capacity for feeling and exhibiting human emotion. Even so-called aliens and gods generally behave very much like us. Now, if you're someone like me who understands that a truly advanced alien civilization wouldn't be even remotely like us in the sense that HUMAN CONCEPTS like love and hate; benevolence and tyranny would be inconsequential to them, then you have to suspend a good measure of disbelief when reading a Superman comic or especially when watching a movie like Guardians of the Galaxy. Admittedly, I'm not great with that. I'm the type who, despite having a great interest in cosmic characters, sort of winces when an entity that's meant to represent the quintessence of higher intelligence tells a fart joke or what have you. Make no mistake, though; if an alien spacecraft suddenly made itself known to us in the here and now, I'd be filled with dread. Why? Because, as implied above, we wouldn't be dealing with something that looks and behaves like Gal Gadot. To borrow your phrasing, we'd truly be at the mercy of a race that's beyond our comprehension.

You argue that primary JL members have seen and experienced things that regular humans could never hope to understand, and I hear you (I really do!) The thing is, none of that is reflected in their actual behavior, i.e., how they're written. So, I don't take it too seriously. At the end of the day, a human can appeal to the sensibilities of a Superman or a Wonder Woman in a way you and I never could during a real-life first contact scenario. And this probably won't help, but I too share your frustration in not being able to get my point across. If anything, I hope this latest response at least shows you where I'm coming from.

Well, we clearly have a lot to say on the subject despite our opposing viewpoints, such is the nature of discussion. Also, if you continue addressing my points, which in turn leaves me with additional thoughts, I feel compelled to respond. I'm not doing so out of mere obstinacy, assuming that's your concern. If you want to move on, however, I'm fine with that.

 

[Kane52630]

First Supergirl, now Batman. The rumor mill’s determined to put these heroes in the 1970’s, lol. Hey maybe that’s how the DCEU gets rebooted! A whole 1970’s universe!

Maybe we'll get the JSA out of it.

 

[flickchick85]

Well, as stated before, that's partly because a good share of the characters we're discussing here are, in fact, described in popular fiction as mortals/humans themselves, which runs somewhat contrary to your viewpoint. Extraordinary humans, enhanced humans, but humans no less. There are even comics like Darkseid War, where Diana alludes to the differences between ordinary people, metahumans (of which I'm mostly referring to), and actual gods like Orion and Highfather. Hell, even in the latest Terminator movie, when Sarah Connor disparaging refers to Grace, a new cyborg character, as a machine, Grace insists that she was merely enhanced, and is therefore still human, unlike Schwarzenegger's "Carl", who was never human to begin with.

Another thing is that, as mentioned before, we're talking about fictional beings here, fictional beings written by humans; fictional beings made for human consumption. Many of them possess notable human characteristics down to their physical anatomies and capacity for feeling and exhibiting human emotion. Even so-called aliens and gods generally behave very much like us. Now, if you're someone like me who understands that a truly advanced alien civilization wouldn't be even remotely like us in the sense that HUMAN CONCEPTS like love and hate; benevolence and tyranny would be inconsequential to them, then you have to suspend a good measure of disbelief when reading a Superman comic or especially when watching a movie like Guardians of the Galaxy. Admittedly, I'm not great with that. I'm the type who, despite having a great interest in cosmic characters, sort of winces when an entity that's meant to represent the quintessence of higher intelligence tells a fart joke or what have you. Make no mistake, though; if an alien spacecraft suddenly made itself known to us in the here and now, I'd be filled with dread Why? Because, as implied above, we wouldn't be dealing with something that looks and behaves like Gal Gadot. To borrow your phrasing, we'd truly be at the mercy of a race that's beyond our comprehension.

You argue that primary JL members have seen and experienced things that regular humans could never hope to understand, and I hear you (I really do!) The thing is, none of that is reflected in their actual behavior, i.e., how they're written. So, I don't take it too seriously. At the end of the day, a human can appeal to the sensibilities of a Superman or a Wonder Woman in a way you and I never could during a real-life first contact scenario. And this probably won't help, but I too share your frustration in not being able to get my point across. If anything, I hope this latest response at least shows you where I'm coming from.

Well, we clearly have a lot to say on the subject despite our opposing viewpoints, such is the nature of discussion. Also, if you continue addressing my points, which in turn leaves me with additional thoughts, I feel compelled to respond. I'm not doing so out of mere obstinacy, assuming that's your concern. If you want to move on, however, I'm fine with that.

As I said, I see them as a modern take on Greek Gods (I mean, their headquarters is a "Watchtower" in space where they float above and watch over us, for crying out loud). The Greek Gods, it turns out, have all those things you described as "human concepts" because the whole point is, those things aren't exclusive to humans at all. Those are all characteristics of personhood, regardless of whether you're human or not. Doesn't change that there are hierarchies of power imbalance and perspectives (I see the New Gods somewhat as the "Titans" in the Greek mythology comparison - the next step above the Gods), and those in one small corner of the bottom level of that power hierarchy don't get to dictate how those at the top choose to interact with their world. Regardless of whether those at the top make fart jokes. But if you can't suspend your disbelief to accept that viewpoint, no worries. Different strokes. I can't suspend my disbelief to put Batman anywhere close to the level of these beings in any of the ways we've been discussing, so we each have our limits.

TBH, a lot of your perspective sounds like more of the Marvel POV to me, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not how I choose to see them, and I generally prefer DC because of that. I like their superheroes-as-myth approaches the most.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

As I said, I see them as a modern take on Greek Gods (I mean, their headquarters is a "Watchtower" in space where they float above and watch over us, for crying out loud). The Greek Gods, it turns out, have all those things you described as "human concepts" because the whole point is, those things aren't exclusive to humans at all. Those are all characteristics of personhood, regardless of whether you're human or not. Doesn't change that there are hierarchies of power imbalance and perspectives (I see the New Gods somewhat as the "Titans" in the Greek mythology comparison - the next step above the Gods), and those in one small corner of the bottom level of that power hierarchy don't get to dictate how those at the top choose to interact with their world. Regardless of whether those at the top make fart jokes. But if you can't suspend your disbelief to accept that viewpoint, no worries. Different strokes. I can't suspend my disbelief to put Batman anywhere close to the level of these beings in any of the ways we've been discussing, so we each have our limits.

See, even the Greek gods are entirely fictional. People say that man is made in God's image, but as regards to fictional deities at least, the reverse is true. Greek mythological figures, despite being larger than life for obvious reasons, are loosely based on the exploits of man. So, I don't see them as being much different from superheroes, and likewise apply a similar philosophy toward them, as explained in my previous post. At least we agree on them being similar, though. lol

TBH, a lot of your perspective sounds like more of the Marvel POV to me, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not how I choose to see them, and I generally prefer DC because of that. I like their superheroes-as-myth approaches the most.

Makes sense.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

@flickchick85 Funny you should say that, though, as I'm currently reading a Marvel title that corresponds with your perspective in many respects. It's very good imo, and I was thinking of recommending it to you, but at the same time, I don't know if it's your cup of tea.

 

[flickchick85]

@flickchick85 Funny you should say that, though, as I'm currently reading a Marvel title that corresponds with your perspective in many respects. It's very good imo, and I was thinking of recommending it to you, but at the same time, I don't know if it's your cup of tea.

What is it?

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

What is it?

I'll PM you.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Giacchino has already written the new Batman theme.

Michael Giacchino to score ‘The Batman’ & Steve NEEDS to be there

Awesome. Good to hear!

 

[Marvel united]

Very likely not true since he isn't the most reliabe source when it comes to this movie but you never know.

I wouldn't mind if this thing took place in the 70s but I'd rather see it take place in modern times. The character should move forwards in time, not backwards.

Well, they'd have an excuse to do blue and grey...

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I wonder if instead of doing a straight up period piece they are going to mix 70s design elements with modern day elements to give it that timeless quality, similar to how Burton mixed 40s with the period of the time (late 80s) for a similar effect.

 

[Boom]

Or Reeves was inspired by the 70's era of Batman storytelling.

 

[I Am The Knight]

That's probably it. Maybe Reeves is taking inspiration from a specific story from that era...?

I'm not opposed to a "period" piece Batman film, though.

 

[dhandler01]

Or Reeves was inspired by the 70's era of Batman storytelling.

Yeah that is the only thing that makes any sense.

 

[shauner111]

Remember, Pattinson told Robert Eggers that he’s only interested in weird projects. He even turned down his offer on a different script because it wasn’t weird enough. So he was given a script for The Lighthouse instead.

Point being: this Bruce Wayne is probably going to be a bit ****ed up. He loves the character anyway but I think he’s going to be darker than Bale’s, while still retaining the warmth that Bale’s version radiated. As opposed to Affleck’s grouchy, cold, sometimes murderous vibes.

A deep dive is due.

 

[Invader Joker]

Remember, Pattinson told Robert Eggers that he’s only interested in weird projects. He even turned down his offer on a different script because it wasn’t weird enough. So he was given a script for The Lighthouse instead.

Point being: this Bruce Wayne is probably going to be a bit ****ed up. He loves the character anyway but I think he’s going to be darker than Bale’s, while still retaining the warmth that Bale’s version radiated. As opposed to Affleck’s grouchy, cold, sometimes murderous vibes.

A deep dive is due.

He didn't say he was only interested in weird projects, he said that around that time he wanted to do the weirdest things he could possibly do, and with Eggers he really wanted to do something absolutely bizarre. He's recently done The King and Waiting for the Barbarians which by all accounts don't seem to be that bizarre.
Plus, anyway, according to him the character has pretty much always been weird. In a recent interview he said something among the lines of "I mean, even if you think the most core basic premise of the character, he's pretty out there", so I suppose any story involving Batman is weird enough for him since he thinks the whole character is weird. Heck, even that whole statement about "Batman is not a hero, though" was Pattinson talking about the character in general, not just in this specific movie.

Idk, I still feel it's too early to say predictions on how exactly he's gonna go about it. He's an actor with so much range it really could go any number of different ways.

He could play a Batman that's more in line of the one from the animated series, comics and videogames, he could play a Batman that resembles more the Keaton Batman, he could play a Batman that resembles more the Bale Batman, he could play an entirely unique one. That's one of the exciting things about having Pattinson as Bruce Wayne, we have literally zero idea as to what he's gonna do.

If I had to guess, based on the fact that Reeves is a huge Batman comics fan and Mattson Tomlin is too, I'd guess they are aiming for something more classic/comic book accurate, exploring aspects of the character we've seen in the comics, DCAU and videogames but we haven't seen in the big screen yet. Even Pattinson himself described it as "something from the comics we haven't seen yet".
But we'll get a better sense once we get that first picture of Pattinson as either Batman or Bruce Wayne.

 

[OutOfBoose]

He hasn't written a full score, as far as I know and can tell. He's just written a Batman theme. I.E. he's done the leitmotif and nothing else (which you hardly need the script for, something that's dark, heroic and gothic with a memorable melody, you've got a good Batman theme). Obviously the full score will at least wait until the script has been finished.

Still, I feel it's premature. You can't apply TDK leitmotif to Burton or BTAS. And vice versa. Of course maybe there were discussions between them of what they want to pursue mood and drama vice, but right now it sounds like he crafted some general "Batman tune" for future use. And who knows if it will even fit. Of course there's history of back and forth collaboration. Lucas was writing the scripts for SW prequels while concept artists were painting stuff based on his ideas. Or even pitching their own ideas to Lucas. Not that the result was all that great. So we will see.

 

[DeadlyWest]

Still, I feel it's premature. You can't apply TDK leitmotif to Burton or BTAS. And vice versa. Of course maybe there were discussions between them of what they want to pursue mood and drama vice, but right now it sounds like he crafted some general "Batman tune" for future use. And who knows if it will even fit. Of course there's history of back and forth collaboration. Lucas was writing the scripts for SW prequels while concept artists were painting stuff based on his ideas. Or even pitching their own ideas to Lucas. Not that the result was all that great. So we will see.

To be fair, if it doesn't fit, Giacchino could probably just change the leitmotif later. But I assume he's done this because he has a good idea of the type of movie Reeves is going to make. Both because they've worked together a lot and because Reeves likely told him when he brought him onto the project.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

Wasn't this movie also being rumored to take place in the 90s?

Only when it was supposedly a Batfleck prequel

I'll take a 90's Batman over a 70's one tho for sure

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I'll take a 90's Batman over a 70's one tho for sure

You and me both.

 

[FatRobin]

I'll take a 2020 Batman over both

 

[DeadlyWest]

If I had to pick, I'd rather go for the 90s as well. But I always loved what both BTAS and Gotham did where they juxtaposed different elements of different time periods to make it this old and gothic city but still semi modern day. If the Batman is gonna be in a shared universe with other heroes like JJ Abrams' Superman (which is rumoured), that might not work. But standalone? I'd love to see that on the big screen again.