The Batman vs The Dark Knight

[The Batman]

There have been constant comparisons between the two films. Which film do you think is better?

 

[Filmfreak]

Of course. I was wondering when this might show up.

Anyway, it's still The Dark Knight for me.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'll need to watch this movie three times -and I have to be in a mood for it all three times- to really decide which one is better.

I doubt this movie has Batman dropping from a penthouse of a tall building while holding his crush in his arms, so I bet this one survives fall damage debates.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The Dark Knight for me

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I don't really want to compare, honestly.

 

[flickchick85]

I suppose this was inevitable.

The Batman for me.

 

[Nardz937]

The Batman is great and delivered many things I've been wanting to see out of the character on film for a long time, however The Dark Knight is still the best made film overall.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I doubt this movie has Batman dropping from a penthouse of a tall building while holding his crush in his arms, so I bet this one survives fall damage debates.

Nah. It traded that for wingsuit crash debates.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

The Batman might be a better Batman movie, but I still do prefer TDK overall although that could change once I see The Batman a few more times but either way it's pretty close between the two for me.

 

[VonRomberg]

I don't really want to compare, honestly.

I echo this. I find these debates a little unnecessary.

 

[Mindreaper21]

The Batman. Easily.

 

[Frodo]

The Dark Knight is sort of the King of The hill in terms of CBM , so, for the past 14 years, and going forward, there are gonna be fans who compare films other CBM to it.

If anything, it's a testament to the film, and everyone behind making it, that so many fans across the board, still use it as a benchmark of excellence.

Alot of fans wanna knock it off it's perch, but, it's like Superman the movie or Spiderman 2.

It's one of those films that, regardless of what comes along, you're not gonna unseat it in terms of how its regarded.

 

[BatLobster]

TDK to The Batman:

"I think you and I are destined to do this forever.."

 

[onetimeposter]

TDK easily. I don’t think you can replicate what that film did for not only the CBM genre but for the entire filmmaking medium. It was TRULY groundbreaking and masterful. The Batman while a very good adaptation will pale in TDK footsteps.

 

[Drop Head]

As far as a "film" goes, TDK. But for a Batman film, The Batman. It gets my vote for that reason.

 

[VonRomberg]

I actually appreciated TDKT more after seeing The Batman because the differences were starker, and TDKT did what it did so well.

Same applies for The Batman - it executed its own objectives perfectly. If anything it’s pretty miraculous to have gotten two exceptional live action film iterations of the Batman universe 15 years apart.

I’d also add if this discussion is going to be had at all this is the wrong comparison and it should be The Batman vs. Batman Begins and the sequel gets compared to TDK.

 

[Captain Tired]

Wow, another DC movie is actually holding its own against TDK in a SuperHeroHype poll for once.

How refreshing.

 

[Filmfreak]

Well, The Batman is a great Bat entry that was extremely hyped from the beginning and recency bias always plays a big part in polls, so I anticipated nothing less. I'm more interested in seeing how the film will be perceived in a year or two from now.

 

[DeadlyWest]

Objectively as films, I do still think TDK is the better movie. Better plot economy, no strings left unthreaded, ridiculously good pacing. I could watch that movie everyday for the rest of my life and not get bored.

But as an adaptation of the character, The Batman is the greatest movie we've ever gotten, live action or animated, in my opinion.

Whether you go one or the other probably just depends on whether being a better film or adaptation is more important to you.

 

[WayneMB]

It's hard for me. The Dark Knight was one of my first exposures to the character (besides DCAU) and i have insanely fond memories of it. On the other hand, I was really excited for The Batman with Reeves directing, tackling detective batman (finally) and the cast he managed to assemble. Movie managed to exceed my expectations and i just really adore this take and the world Matt created.

I rewatched TDK last week and the film is still incredible but there are things that i'm not that keen on (insanely weird, fast editing, at times distracting) + Nolan's take on Gotham is not "my gotham". In the end, TDK has the upper hand when it comes to the main villain, legacy and influence (The Batman might get there) and is just still an amazing piece of filmmaking. I find it easier to compare The Batman to the other two entries in the Nolan trilogy and in that comparison The Batman is better for me.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The Batman might be a better Batman movie, but I still do prefer TDK overall although that could change once I see The Batman a few more times but either way it's pretty close between the two for me.

personally, I think TDK being the better movie (for me) also means it's the better Batman movie. The Batman has an aesthetic and style that's instantly iconic because it looks like what people come to expect from modern Batman comics, but TDK still felt like a true Batman movie even with the larger than life scope and aesthetic. I get why people may say The Batman feels more like Batman, but personally I don't really agree with it entirely. just my 2 cents lol.

 

[DeadlyWest]

personally, I think TDK being the better movie (for me) also means it's the better Batman movie. The Batman has an aesthetic and style that's instantly iconic because it looks like what people come to expect from modern Batman comics, but TDK still felt like a true Batman movie even with the larger than life scope and aesthetic. I get why people may say The Batman feels more like Batman, but personally I don't really agree with it entirely. just my 2 cents lol.

I think for me it's less to do with aesthetics and more to do with Reeves' characterisation of the characters vs Nolan's.

The most "comic accurate" aesthetic is probably by far Snyder's. Batfleck, visually, is Frank Miller's Batman come to life. Does that mean it's the best version of the character though? Absolutely not.

While Nolan clearly does understand that Batman is a heroic figure, what Reeves nails for me is the utter struggle behind it. It isn't something that comes easy for Batman because he has that vengeful side to him. In the TDK trilogy, Batman never really struggles with this. From moment 1 of being Batman, he's a very heroic figure who seems to have everything figured out. And while it's obviously admirable, I don't really think it's indicative of how it'd go and how easily someone as mentally damaged as Bruce Wayne would find it to deal with his personal demons. It's obviously personal preference, but I thought that while Bruce somewhat struggling is still there, most prevalent in the first half of Begins, beyond that it's not really brought up as much. He becomes Batman, he's immediately a hero. And I thought that not extending that struggle into Bruce's crusade as Batman was a massive missed opportunity. A missed opportunity that Reeves took and ****ing SPRINTED with.

You could genuinely make an argument that up until the last 15 or so minutes of this movie, Batman borders on being an anti-hero. More focused on taking out his vengeance on criminals than trying to help Gotham. As Rob has said in the press, this isn't just him trying to be a grand symbol for the city, it's personal for him. Despite his current methods clearly not working due to violent crime increasing in the time he's been Batman, he can't stop. Rather than a mostly well-put together man who had a severe tragedy in his childhood, Battinson is flat out mentally haunted in a way that no live action movie before has done (or at absolute minimum, done this effectively). It's not a compulsion, it's a flat out addiction under the guise of trying to help his city.

But then, upon seeing the reflection of "Vengeance" before him with the Riddler goon, he realizes the error of his ways. He realizes exactly what vengeance has gotten him. A broken city. Bitter, vengeful and fearful people. And for the first time in this movie, the compassion that's beneath the rage at the tragedy finally shines through. Despite the conflict, despite the all-encompassing fury at the injustice done to him that nearly caused him to lose himself, he becomes a hero. Despite literally everything that should mean it's impossible... Vengeance becomes Hope.

That... is ****ing powerful. And in my opinion, it is the most poignant example of Batman's main takeaway that I have ever seen. This utterly mentally broken and scornful man turning that scorn, turning that fire inside him, into a Flare that shines through the terrifying darkness. Without question, in my opinion, it's the greatest goddamn movie scene I've ever laid eyes on.

As much as I can admit TDK is objectively the better film logistically, there's nothing in TDK which comes even close to being as emotionally potent to that scene for me. There's nothing in TDK which "gets it" quite like that one scene does. Batman isn't about just being an outcast and doing the right thing, it's this idea of turning your pain into something better. And it's why in my opinion, as much as I love TDK, The Batman is the more "true" adaptation of the character.

 

[BatLobster]

While Nolan clearly does understand that Batman is a heroic figure, what Reeves nails for me is the utter struggle behind it. It isn't something that comes easy for Batman because he has that vengeful side to him. In the TDK trilogy, Batman never really struggles with this. From moment 1 of being Batman, he's a very heroic figure who seems to have everything figured out.

I think they both tackle that side of things from different angles.

THE BATMAN tells the story of a Batman who hasn't figured out how to truly be "Batman" yet, learning how to be the hero we know. THE DARK KNIGHT tells the story of a Batman who thinks he's got it figured out, who has heroic intentions and a "plan"-- dealing with the repercussions of the extremity of what he's doing- for Gotham, for his allies, for him personally. It's his 'dark night of the soul'. Both films attempt to challenge him on a fundamental level.

Bruce in the Nolan films may think he's totally mastered his demons, but IMO- The Joker represents the externalization of all of that. The equal and opposite reaction. I truly believe The Joker simply would not exist in that universe without Batman. There is a similar element at play in The Batman with Batman inspiring Riddler, but it's not as literal to me in TDK. Joker isn't just a Batman fanboy. It is truly like the universe spat him out as a spiritual counterbalance to Batman.

The Batman deconstructs "vengeance" as fuel for his crusade. The Dark Knight deconstructs the entire idea of one man attempting to fix a city by working outside the law and why there are going to be inevitable negative consequences to that. And yet, Batman is still able to transform that and become 'whatever Gotham needs him to be'. I think that in and of itself ends up being a profound statement on Batman as a character. I even see it as a bit of a meta commentary on our ever-evolving relationship with him and that delicate balance of light and darkness he encompasses. He's something 'more' than just a hero. I think this is why for me, TDK gets to the core of the character from an angle that is just very singular and distilled for me.

I think the ending of The Batman is great, but if I had to critique it, I'd say it feels a bit "superhero 101" to me. The idea that "vengeance isn't the answer" is a very well-worn superhero trope at this point. It's explored in Batman Begins, Batman Returns (to an extent), Batman Forever, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man, Batman v Superman-- to name a few off the top of my head. That doesn't make it bad and I'm not saying those movies do it as thoroughly or artfully as The Batman does, but something about the ultimate conclusion to me just rings more "this is why we love superheroes" vs. "this is Batman", IMO. I think Batman is something a lot more complex than a first-responder analog, and that's part of what sets him apart from a lot of other superheroes. I LOVE seeing the heroic side of Batman get some shine though, don't get me wrong. That is always nice to see, and I think we needed that with this version. I just think the movie struggled to make that feel like a dramatic turn, for me. Cause to me, Batman has always kind of been a softie at heart, for all his talk of being a creature of the night. He cares. A LOT. Probably too much. I know him too well to think otherwise, haha.

To me though, the ending of The Dark Knight could only truly work as well as it does in a Batman story. Which makes it more unique and impactful to me. But in taking the fall as he does in TDK, Batman is still attempting to keep hope alive for the city. He is doing something ethically questionable because he sees no other alternative and absolutely refuses to let nihilism win over hope for Gotham, even if he has to destroy whatever good his symbol may have stood for in the process. That's just so Batman that it hurts for me.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I think they both tackle that side of things from different angles.

THE BATMAN tells the story of a Batman who hasn't figured out how to truly be "Batman" yet, learning how to be the hero we know. THE DARK KNIGHT tells the story of a Batman who thinks he's got it figured out, who has heroic intentions and a "plan"-- dealing with the repercussions of the extremity of what he's doing- for Gotham, for his allies, for him personally. It's his 'dark night of the soul'. Both films attempt to challenge him on a fundamental level.

Bruce in the Nolan films may think he's totally mastered his demons, but IMO- The Joker represents the externalization of all of that. The equal and opposite reaction. I truly believe The Joker simply would not exist in that universe without Batman. There is a similar element at play in The Batman with Batman inspiring Riddler, but it's not as literal to me in TDK. Joker isn't just a Batman fanboy. It is truly like the universe spat him out as a spiritual counterbalance to Batman.

The Batman deconstructs "vengeance" as fuel for his crusade. The Dark Knight deconstructs the entire idea of one man attempting to fix a city by working outside the law and why there are going to be inevitable negative consequences to that. And yet, Batman is still able to transform that and become 'whatever Gotham needs him to be'. I think that in and of itself ends up being a profound statement on Batman as a character. I even see it as a bit of a meta commentary on our ever-evolving relationship with him and that delicate balance of light and darkness he encompasses. He's something 'more' than just a hero. I think this is why for me, TDK gets to the core of a character from an angle that is just very singular and distilled for me.

I think the ending of The Batman is great, but if I had to critique it, I'd say it feels a bit "superhero 101" to me. The idea that "vengeance isn't the answer" is a very well-worn superhero trope at this point. It's explored in Batman Begins, Batman Returns (to an extent), Batman Forever, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man, Batman v Superman-- to name a few off the top of my head. That doesn't make it bad and I'm not saying those movies do it as thoroughly or artfully as The Batman does, but something about the ultimate conclusion to me just rings more "this is why we love superheroes" vs. "this is Batman", IMO. I think Batman is something a lot more complex than a first-responder analog, and that's part of what sets him apart from other superheroes. I love seeing the heroic side of Batman get some shine though, don't get me wrong. I just think the movie struggled to make that feel like a dramatic turn, for me. Cause to me, Batman has always kind of been a softie at heart, for all his talk of being a creature of the night. He cares. A LOT. Probably too much. I know him too well to think otherwise, haha.

To me though, the ending of The Dark Knight could only truly work as well as it does in a Batman story. Which makes it more unique and impactful to me. But in taking the fall as he does in TDK, Batman is still attempting to keep hope alive for the city. He is doing something ethically questionable because he sees no other alternative and absolutely refuses to let nihilism win over hope for Gotham, even if he has to destroy whatever good his symbol may have stood for in the process. That's just so Batman that it hurts for me.

Once again, BatLobster wrote in a few paragraphs the fundamental reason above all that TDK resonates so hard with me above all other superhero films. I've rewatched the film numerous times, and the thing that always stands out to me is how Batman brushes the Joker aside at the beginning of the film, thinking of him as a "non issue" because he's confident in what he's done. "criminals aren't complicated alfred, we just gotta figure out what he's after". But of course, he was wrong, and Alfred even tells him "You spat in the faces of Gotham's worse criminals. Didn't you think there might be some casualties? Things were always going to get worse before they got better." I totally get why some may favor Reeves approach, but Nolans handling of the ramifications of Batmans existence in TDK still remains so powerful to me. Becoming a martyr to preserve a symbol of "hope" is one of the most heroic things I've seen.