The Last Jedi The Biggest Problem with The Last Jedi is The Force Awakens.

[DeadStroke]

I've been seeing this movement take place lately.

After seeing the film I agree. Its pretty clear Rian Johnson either wasn't a fan or just had no interest in building off of that movie.

When thinking about The Last Jedi as some alternate universe movie or just forgetting about The Force Awakens (which I'm not a huge fan of anyway) I like it even more.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Why is this, "official"?

I'd never forget about TFA. It is one of my favorite films.

 

[BigSams50]

He kind of just ignores alot of things that JJ did

Spoiler

Ren acts in TFA like he knows Rey, yet in TLJ she is just no one.
Knights of Ren? LOL where are they again?
Luke tossing the saber in TLJ was just a slap in the face to the epic finish of TFA

 

[DeadStroke]

Why is this, "official"?

I'd never forget about TFA. It is one of my favorite films.

Give it time. j/k. Thats cool. It is a fun movie.


I think The Last Jedi will age better than TFA..

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think I will end up loving both. Its been a couple years on TFA and I adore it more then even when it opened.

 

[Silver Surfer]

This is what happens when you plan a trilogy of movies without actually planning them out. JJ literally 'pitched' SW9 to Lucasfilm today. No plan, no direction, the DCEU method of making Star Wars.

 

[BigSams50]

This is what happens when you plan a trilogy of movies without actually planning them out. JJ literally 'pitched' SW9 to Lucasfilm today. No plan, no direction, the DCEU method of making Star Wars.

That has to be the saddest thing i have read today. Disney, wtf. How do you not already have a basic guideline of how things will play out

 

[TheJL]

Will the Last Jedi play out like Star Trek V: The Final Frontier? Canon, but not well-received.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

This is what happens when you plan a trilogy of movies without actually planning them out. JJ literally 'pitched' SW9 to Lucasfilm today. No plan, no direction, the DCEU method of making Star Wars.

Um actually no. The dceu method is to plan everything out in advance and then start making multiple movies at the same time so that when your first couple implode your whole universe is screwed. This is literally the opposite.

 

[spiderman2]

That has to be the saddest thing i have read today. Disney, wtf. How do you not already have a basic guideline of how things will play out

I don't buy that I am sure they had a basic idea of what they wanted to have happened in this trilogy going into TFA or the movies would be much worse like DC bad if that was really true. I am sure they didn't have all the details of how to get there but I am sure they had basic ideas of what they where going to do.

 

[2kt09]

Too much nostalgic wank? = TFA
heard complaints & read fanfic => TLJ

 

[godisawesome]

The clash between the storytelling priorities and lore-usage between Abrams and Johnson is jarring, and ultimately I do fume angrily at the fact that Finn, my favorite character from TFA and the guy who had the most dynamic character arc there alongside the most unpredictable, but potential-filled possibilities for TLJ, is ultimately stuck in a potty break subplot that's crippling lay devoted to a smaller Galaxy and pursuit of the OT military status quo.

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't buy that I am sure they had a basic idea of what they wanted to have happened in this trilogy going into TFA or the movies would be much worse like DC bad if that was really true. I am sure they didn't have all the details of how to get there but I am sure they had basic ideas of what they where going to do.

Didn't johnson say that he had no instruction going into this?

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I don't think there was a blue print for the whole trilogy. Abrams made TFA and let the next director decide where the story was going to go.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is what happens when you plan a trilogy of movies without actually planning them out. JJ literally 'pitched' SW9 to Lucasfilm today. No plan, no direction, the DCEU method of making Star Wars.

You mean the same method to make every single Star Wars movie, including the OT? The same way Nolan made TDKT.

 

[BatLobster]

Yup. Overplanning can box you into a corner.

It works for certain things, but the alternative is a very organic way of telling a story.

Look at Breaking Bad too as another great example where they were 'making it up as they went'.

 

[writer0327]

I'd go one step further. I'd say the problem are the desires and expectations that are still holding over from the OT.

TFA was a return to "Star Wars" after the disastrous prequels. TFA was a throwback adventure, a reminder of what it was we loved about Star Wars in the first place. I think what most people were expecting in TLJ was a continuation of the OT's style....it's themes, storytelling, and pacing. What we got was something that turned all of that on its head and gave us something new and different in the SW universe.

 

[mikeboydus]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Mark Hamill interview mentioning Colin Trevorrow. There seemed to be some genuine cohesion from TFA to his version of XI and Hamill said they were on the same page in terms of the character of Luke Skywalker. Colin was announced as the director of XI in August 2015, but sometime between then and Sep 2017 when he quit, there was a falling out between him and Disney over creative differences.

Based on ideas from the art books and comments by Mark himself, there seemed to have been some kind of cohesive trilogy design in 2015, but at some point Disney appears to have thrown all of that out and went with Rian's newer deconstructive vision.

 

[TheVileOne]

Can someone help me out here. I don't ever recall Kylo Ren acting like he knows Rey.

The whole "Girl?!" reaction to me just came off like, "There's a girl with them? Who the hell is it? Why didn't you mention it earlier?" It wasn't a reaction of, "A girl you say?! It must be my cousin/sister/relative who got abandoned on Jakku long ago! We can't have her in the picture! That's bad news!"

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Yes, Trevorrow said at one point that he wanted more Fisher and Hamill in his movie than in Episode VIII.

Look what happened with that... Carrie Fisher died in December 2016... and they killed off Luke in VIII.

Hamill said he was on the same page with Trevorrow regarding Luke's role which was totally different than his early opinion of Rian Johnson's approach.


(3:33)

 

[Aximili86]

This is what happens when you plan a trilogy of movies without actually planning them out. JJ literally 'pitched' SW9 to Lucasfilm today. No plan, no direction, the DCEU method of making Star Wars.

The original three weren't "planned out", either. Or, at least, the plans changed bigtime along the way.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

J. J. Abrams had ideas for VIII and IX that he said he shared with Lucasfilm and the new directors but he wasn't able to mandate that they happen. That was before TFA came out and before he was brought on for IX.

 

[Consona]

Johnson was just not able to write anything interesting with what Abrams prepared for him. Snoke wasted, Phasma wasted, Luke totally wasted, Rey wasted... TFA even though being a huge rehash at least felt like a SW movie, no stupid amounts of bathos, it felt genuine. TLJ felt like a bad fan fiction from someone who does not understand what Star Wars are about. And who can't even write a coherent engaging story.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Star Wars Rebels and Rogue One are different types of Star Wars that still feel like Star Wars in a way that The Last Jedi violates.

P.S. The Sabine darksaber training/Mandalore/family episodes of Rebels are way better than The Last Jedi.

 

[jmc]

It's not so much TFA awakens that's the issue. The issue is there was never any overarching plans in place for a trilogy of movies. If you want to make a story about a nobody who rises to become the new face of the Jedi then that's the story you have to start with. Instead we started the trilogy with the hero being wrapped in a mystery box.

Both films on a foundational level work perfectly fine separately, but as an overarching narrative is where they don't work. You can't intentionally leave all these bread crumbs in film one, ask the audience to invest into these clues and then just disregard them as being unimportant in film two. It's basically trolling the audience and leaves everything feeling uneven and disjointed.

Where they go from here is frankly anyone's guess, because all the major questions and challenges that were presented in TFA have been answered with TLJ.