The biggest problems with "Joker"

[JSSTyger]

I'll preface this by saying I gave it an 8.5/10. But there are problems guys.

1) The musical score might have been my biggest problem. I don't mean the choice of songs. I mean the score. When Joker kills the three guys in the subway train, the score hits us over the head like a hammer. The score was more evil (some how) than the shooting. It didn't fit very well. An Oscar may be coming to Joaquin Phoenix, but the movie score is about 1,000 miles from one.

2) The Joker's mob following is the biggest problem with the actual story. In a serious "realistic" movie, this is incredibly "unrealistic". After Joker killed the three men on the subway train, suddenly all of Gotham is celebrating. WHAT? He's running from the cops and enters a random train and EVERYONE has a clown mask on. These are normal people just going to or from work. What the H are the doing wearing masks? Did everyone turn into Jason Voorhees? Imagine your boss from work coming in with a clown mask on I mean wtf? And the mob seemed ready to go at the end I mean they orchestrated Joker's "escape" from the police within minutes.

 

[Web-Head]

This didn't need its own thread.

 

[JSSTyger]

This didn't need its own thread.

Maybe I don't want to be reply # 205 that nobody will see. One thing I hate about these forums is they want you to be the 1000th reply in another thread. People sign up on these forums to be seen, not to be buried in 10 pages of comments. Besides, this thread is better than the "Tony Stark IS Iron Man" type threads that are so popular. I haven't looked but I can safely assume there's a "Joaquin Phoenix IS Joker" thread.

 

[JSSTyger]

This didn't need its own thread.

....AND I just scoured three pages here and discovered no subject lines that are remotely close to mine.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

....AND I just scoured three pages here and discovered no subject lines that are remotely close to mine.

I'm pretty sure I saw your exact subject line attached to a clickbait article though. The way you chose to word the thread title tells me you're more interested in the attention than you are in discussing the film.

 

[JSSTyger]

I'm pretty sure I saw your exact subject line attached to a clickbait article though. The way you chose to word the thread title tells me you're more interested in the attention than you are in discussing the film.

My goodness, you people are SORE over this.

Your whining about whether or not this belongs under some other thread that I haven't seen instead of dropping the BS and addressing the topic tells me YOU aren't interested in discussion.

Did I not present points that clearly indicate I saw the movie and am discussing the movie? You can go on and leave the thread. Maybe somebody else will have something worth adding.

 

[Guts]

I'll preface this by saying I gave it an 8.5/10. But there are problems guys.

1) The musical score might have been my biggest problem. I don't mean the choice of songs. I mean the score. When Joker kills the three guys in the subway train, the score hits us over the head like a hammer. The score was more evil (some how) than the shooting. It didn't fit very well. An Oscar may be coming to Joaquin Phoenix, but the movie score is about 1,000 miles from one.

2) The Joker's mob following is the biggest problem with the actual story. In a serious "realistic" movie, this is incredibly "unrealistic". After Joker killed the three men on the subway train, suddenly all of Gotham is celebrating. WHAT? He's running from the cops and enters a random train and EVERYONE has a clown mask on. These are normal people just going to or from work. What the H are the doing wearing masks? Did everyone turn into Jason Voorhees? Imagine your boss from work coming in with a clown mask on I mean wtf? And the mob seemed ready to go at the end I mean they orchestrated Joker's "escape" from the police within minutes.

They weren't following Joker, they only personally knew about him after he confessed on live tv to being the subway killer.

After Arthur killed the three Wayne Enterprises employees on the train, Thomas Wayne made a very insensitive comment about the poor people in Gotham being clowns. There was already a bit of a class divide in the city so Thomas Wayne's comments didn't make it any better. It was mentioned that a rally was going on at town hall in the scene before Arthur was running from the detectives. It's logical to assume that all the clowns on the train were heading to the rally.

 

[The Endless]

There was already a "movement" in Gotham. They just adopted the clown masks after stories of a killer clown who murdered 3 yuppies.

 

[Doc Samson]

Preface this by saying I loved the film too, an 8/10, maybe 9/10. But as I've said before:

1) I can only view this movie as a "Joker" movie if he's lying and creating this story for his therapist or if he's just the influence for the real Joker down the road. Otherwise there's fundamental changes to his character that I've never associated with the Joker at all.

2) They're both nitpicky but it bothers me that in the most grounded portrayal yet, we still have Thomas Wayne walking the streets of Gotham with his family and zero security. I felt they had an opportunity to make this more believable. In no city in America, especially one as filthy as Gotham, will you be able to just approach a billionaire/mayoral candidate and his family in a dark alley with no resistance.

Same goes for Sophie leaving her door unlocked in a Gotham that's full of civil unrest and crime. Arthur in her apartment might be my favorite scene, but how they get there makes no sense.

 

[Web-Head]

I'm pretty sure I saw your exact subject line attached to a clickbait article though. The way you chose to word the thread title tells me you're more interested in the attention than you are in discussing the film.

It would have been different if they had said "These are my problems with Joker, what are yours?" But it seemed like they just wanted the attention here.

 

[Heretic]

If memory serves, there was a big protest planned and people were on the subways travelling to the protest...and...like the V For Vendetta masks have become in real life...the Joker masks were being worn as a symbol of unity. So, people didn't magically have the masks when the story needed it.

 

[JSSTyger]

They weren't following Joker, they only personally knew about him after he confessed on live tv to being the subway killer.

After Arthur killed the three Wayne Enterprises employees on the train, Thomas Wayne made a very insensitive comment about the poor people in Gotham being clowns. There was already a bit of a class divide in the city so Thomas Wayne's comments didn't make it any better. It was mentioned that a rally was going on at town hall in the scene before Arthur was running from the detectives. It's logical to assume that all the clowns on the train were heading to the rally.

OK I missed the bit about Thomas Wayne calling the lower class clowns. Was there any indicator that train was going to the rally? I might let it go if there is. But it sure came off as random to me. Alas, I could be wrong. But...they're still nutjobs for buying the clown masks and "honoring" a guy responsible for triple murder.

 

[JSSTyger]

It would have been different if they had said "These are my problems with Joker, what are yours?" But it seemed like they just wanted the attention here.

Oh no, the forum police are out. Gotta conform to the demands of the forum police. Guess what. You won't see any movie critics say "this is my opinion". Film criticism is understood as an opinion. I'm not going to say "In my humble honest opinion, which you may or may not like....". No, I'm going to get to the point.

Also guess what again? I scoured 3 pages and didn't find any similar thread titles. I'm sure you would have reported me by now, being that you are the forum police, if I was violating any rules.

 

[MovieSlave]

I love the comments pointing out he wasn't really paying attention to the film. To create a thread to nitpick a movie doesn't surprise me.

 

[JSSTyger]

If memory serves, there was a big protest planned and people were on the subways travelling to the protest...and...like the V For Vendetta masks have become in real life...the Joker masks were being worn as a symbol of unity. So, people didn't magically have the masks when the story needed it.

I'd have to see it again... If what you are saying is true I think those people are still nutcases. A triple murder happened, and their cause makes it seem like they are sympathizing with the guy who did it, even if its just to spite Thomas Wayne.

 

[JSSTyger]

I love the comments pointing out he wasn't really paying attention to the film. To create a thread to nitpick a movie doesn't surprise me.

Most of the threads here are slobbering over the movie. And I said I didn't recall Thomas Wayne calling the lower class "clowns". Pretty sure that doesn't constitute not paying attention to the whole movie. If you're mad about criticism, take a moment, let your anger cool down, and go frolic in the other threads that are slobbering over it, OK?

 

[MovieSlave]

Most of the threads here are slobbering over the movie. And I said I didn't recall Thomas Wayne calling the lower class "clowns". Pretty sure that doesn't constitute not paying attention to the whole movie. If you're mad about criticism, take a moment, let your anger cool down, and go frolic in the other threads that are slobbering over it, OK?

I have no problem with people criticizing a movie I like. The problem is how many times over the years I've seen people wrongfully criticize a movie because they missed something or weren't paying attention. Part of it has to do with the tide changing these past 10-15 years. Seems like so many people go into a popular movie with the intent to find things to trash the movie. I'm not saying you're one of those types but it just gets annoying over time. *shrug*

 

[Guts]

I'd have to see it again... If what you are saying is true I think those people are still nutcases. A triple murder happened, and their cause makes it seem like they are sympathizing with the guy who did it, even if its just to spite Thomas Wayne.

It's not to spite Thomas Wayne, there is very much a class divide between the rich and the poor in the city and the city was already falling apart financially before Arthur killed those guys. For example: the social services in the city was shut down and Arthur lost access to his medication and therapy. It is very likely that Arthur wasn't the only person in the city effected by this which did leave a large amount of people in Gotham really pissed off. Wayne's comments most definitely set them over the edge.

OK I missed the bit about Thomas Wayne calling the lower class clowns. Was there any indicator that train was going to the rally? I might let it go if there is. But it sure came off as random to me. Alas, I could be wrong. But...they're still nutjobs for buying the clown masks and "honoring" a guy responsible for triple murder.

The character V in V For Vendetta is a a terrorist who kills people and blows up buildings. Even though he's a fictional character many people used his mask as a symbol during political movements like Occupy Wall Street. This is basically like that, but if the people actually got violet in their protests.

 

[Caped Crusader]

My nitpick if I really had to choose is the portrayal of Thomas Wayne and I get it’s a different take from what we’ve read in years past or have watched but it still bothered me just a tad lol

 

[Closerframe]

The only nitpick I have is the fact they cut some scenes that were included in both the script and trailers. I would have loved to see Arthur attending his mother's funeral.

 

[Guts]

I'll preface this by saying I gave it an 8.5/10. But there are problems guys.

1) The musical score might have been my biggest problem. I don't mean the choice of songs. I mean the score. When Joker kills the three guys in the subway train, the score hits us over the head like a hammer. The score was more evil (some how) than the shooting. It didn't fit very well. An Oscar may be coming to Joaquin Phoenix, but the movie score is about 1,000 miles from one.

Now ain't this ironic.