The Superhero Cinematic Civil War

[DarthSkywalker]

Having actually lived in poverty, with food insecurity, and sometimes in unsafe situations, it's truly awful, but none of it compares to losing a child.

You shouldn't assume what strangers have and have not experienced.

Bro, that's exactly what you're doing. I don't want to get into the stats on this, because the loss of a child is always tragic, no matter someone's social or economic status. But if you're going to bring it up, and comparing it to poverty, you should consider the loss of children and suicide in poverty stricken families.

I honestly find it bizarre that you've even brought this up. Because Snyder losing a child, does not have anything to do with people talking about his work, what he likes to read, or that he stoked the flames. He's a rich man, who lives in a nice house, who doesn't need to worry about money, who gets to blow other's millions on making movies. He's got it better then most. That's not debatable.

 

[flickchick85]

I think that's very cynical, and I completely disagree.

That someone describes a review as measured only means that they view it as measured. It doesn't mean that they endorse it. If they did, they'd say "I agree with the contents." It's always possible -- hopefully -- to view as measured an argument that one disagrees with in part or in whole.

And you’re welcome to disagree. It just reads to me as a very thinly veiled attempt to feign objectivity.

 

[Ninjablade]

Overrated score

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think that's very cynical, and I completely disagree.

That someone describes a review as measured only means that they view it as measured. It doesn't mean that they endorse it. If they did, they'd say "I agree with the contents." It's always possible -- hopefully -- to view as measured an argument that one disagrees with in part or in whole.

Bro, let's be real. Your entire argument is cynical. People are writing lengthy responses to you, and you're picking at points that you think can help your argument, without engaging in the rest of the posts in good faith. All the while painting the very rich man, as some sort of put upon soul, who needs defending.

This is happening because you have an issue with people not liking him or his work. You ignore that Cult, what has occurred with it, and how Snyder has freely admitted he used it to get what he wants. Like him. That's your right. But there is nothing bizarre about anyone else's opinion about him here.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Snyder filmography*​	RT Critics Consensus​	RT Audience Consensus​	RT Critics Rating​	RT Audience Rating​	Cinemascore (Audience)​	IMDb (users) (weighted avg.)​
Rebel Moon Pt. 1​	23%​	72%​	4.1​	7.6​	N/A​	6.8​
Army of the Dead​	67%​	75%​	6.1​	7.8​	N/A​	5.8​
ZS Justice League​	72%​	93%​	6.7​	9.2​	N/A​	7.9​
Justice League​	39%​	67%​	5.3​	7.4​	B+​	6.1​
Batman v Superman​	29%​	63%​	5.0​	7.0​	B​	6.5​
Man of Steel​	56%​	75%​	6.2​	7.8​	A-​	7.1​
Sucker Punch​	22%​	47%​	4.1​	6.2​	B-​	6.0​
Legend of the Guardians​	52%​	64%​	5.7​	7.2​	A-​	6.9​
Watchmen​	65%​	71%​	6.4​	7.4​	B​	7.6​
300​	61%​	89%​	6.1​	8.6​	A-​	7.6​
Dawn of the Dead​	76%​	77%​	6.8​	7.6​	B​	7.3​
average​	51%​	72%​	5.7​	7.6​	B+​	6.9​

* as of this posting, numbers can fluctuate in the future.

That's every major project he's listed as director (I think...), we know he left the first attempt at JL and Whedon took over. IMDb does a weighted average algorithm, but it too like RT is just a user-selected straw poll so do what that what you may. As for Cinemascore, read this. I haven't bothered to watch any of Snyder's movies after 2017's Justice League was out for streaming, I just don't personally gel with them much besides liking MoS and the DotD remake.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Overrated score

You overexaggerating, hater!

 

[Ninjablade]

You overexaggerating, hater!

It's not hating when I'm right!

 

[Man in the Suit]

I saw Zack Snyder at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a *****e and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off.When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's not hating when I'm right!

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I gotta catch up but…



Yall still in here catfighting over Snyder and his mediocrity?

 

[Hurm...]

Snyder filmography*​	RT Critics Consensus​	RT Audience Consensus​	RT Critics Rating​	RT Audience Rating​	Cinemascore (Audience)​	IMDb (users) (weighted avg.)​
Rebel Moon Pt. 1​	23%​	72%​	4.1​	7.6​	N/A​	6.8​
Army of the Dead​	67%​	75%​	6.1​	7.8​	N/A​	5.8​
ZS Justice League​	72%​	93%​	6.7​	9.2​	N/A​	7.9​
Justice League​	39%​	67%​	5.3​	7.4​	B+​	6.1​
Batman v Superman​	29%​	63%​	5.0​	7.0​	B​	6.5​
Man of Steel​	56%​	75%​	6.2​	7.8​	A-​	7.1​
Sucker Punch​	22%​	47%​	4.1​	6.2​	B-​	6.0​
Legend of the Guardians​	52%​	64%​	5.7​	7.2​	A-​	6.9​
Watchmen​	65%​	71%​	6.4​	7.4​	B​	7.6​
300​	61%​	89%​	6.1​	8.6​	A-​	7.6​
Dawn of the Dead​	76%​	77%​	6.8​	7.6​	B​	7.3​
average​	51%​	72%​	5.7​	7.6​	B+​	6.9​

* as of this posting, numbers can fluctuate in the future.

That's every major project he's listed as director (I think...), we know he left the first attempt at JL and Whedon took over. IMDb does a weighted average algorithm, but it too like RT is just a user-selected straw poll so do what that what you may. As for Cinemascore, read this. I haven't bothered to watch any of Snyder's movies after 2017's Justice League was out for streaming, I just don't personally gel with them much besides liking MoS and the DotD remake.

Homie really hit me with the excel spreadsheet.

This is really interesting to break down, nicely done.

 

[kguillou]

I saw Zack Snyder at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a *****e and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off.When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

Wait this actually happened for real?!

 

[DA_Champion]

You ignore that Cult,

I've spent a lot of time -- too much time -- on movie discussion boards such as this one. I have 11,000 posts here, similarly on another forum, and I have discussed movies on various other boards and communities at the 2,000 or so post level. Multiple other communities where I've lurked, and there are a few youtube channels I've watched here and there, both right-wing and left-wing youtube channels. I've been a member of three different movie clubs, where we would out together and watch various movies. So I've met and/or interacted a lot of people who are into genre films, and ...

I've never met or seen a Snyder Cult member that I know about, as in somebody who was rampaging on the platform formerly known as Twitter and posting #ReleaseTheSnyderCut all over the place, harassing officials, etc. I have not met or seen a single one. But I have read ... thousands of posts hating on Snyder, going back to 2013.

The only public figure that I can think of is Ray Fischer, whom had a very valid point. Whedon treated him like garbage, and called him "a bad actor in both senses of the term". For what it's worth I will not ignore Fischer, I'm going to praise him. He did the right thing in my opinion. As John Boyega did when he blasted LucasFilm. It was the same phenomenon. Some creatives like Johnson and Whedon have an instinct to make Black characters into background idiot characters. I suspect that Snyder himself was like that for some time. At one of my movie club outings, a man described 300 as the most racist movie he had ever seen. I can't reject the sentiment.

Anyway, I'm a bit worked up, part of that being due to the personal invective I've been getting. I also don't think that this tangent is interesting to enough people. So I should walk away, at least until I actually watch Rebel Moon. I hope I enjoy it, if I hate it as much as BvS I'll feel really embarassed lol.

ETA: I got sad when I realized it was already December 15th.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Wait this actually happened for real?!

Yeah.

Spoiler

No, it's a copypasta.

 

[flickchick85]

Wait this actually happened for real?!

Oh @kguillou you sweet summer child.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I gotta catch up but…

View attachment 75582

Yall still in here catfighting over Snyder and his mediocrity?

And they will be for many years to come. Even when Rebel Moon's both parts are long gone and we are but skeletons in the apocalypse.

 

[DA_Champion]

In different news, I can't stand click bait like this:

James Gunn Throws Shade at Marvel

James Gunn went there. He's called out Marvel, and not held back. Posting on Threads, the DC co-CEO responded to comments his upcoming film, Superman: Legacy, has too many characters. “The whole point was it’s NOT a large film - I mean, not in terms of cast. It’s normal for single protagonist...

www.yahoo.com

Gunn did make some actual interesting points I the article, but they're not clearly about Marvel. They could be about anybody. Marvel, Singer, Snyder, Sony, etc.

It does seem like Superman has too many characters, but in his case he's demonstrably good at managing large casts.

I also thought that Matt Reeves' The Batman had a huge cast, but then when I watched it, it was fine.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I've spent a lot of time -- too much time -- on movie discussion boards such as this one. I have 11,000 posts here, similarly on another forum, and I have discussed movies on various other boards and communities at the 2,000 or so post level. Multiple other communities where I've lurked, and there are a few youtube channels I've watched here and there, both right-wing and left-wing youtube channels. I've been a member of three different movie clubs, where we would out together and watch various movies. So I've met and/or interacted a lot of people who are into genre films, and ...

I've never met or seen a Snyder Cult member that I know about, as in somebody who was rampaging on the platform formerly known as Twitter and posting #ReleaseTheSnyderCut all over the place, harassing officials, etc. I have not met or seen a single one. But I have read ... thousands of posts hating on Snyder, going back to 2013.

The only public figure that I can think of is Ray Fischer, whom had a very valid point. Whedon treated him like garbage, and called him "a bad actor in both senses of the term". For what it's worth I will not ignore Fischer, I'm going to praise him. He did the right thing in my opinion. As John Boyega did when he blasted LucasFilm. It was the same phenomenon. Some creatives like Johnson and Whedon have an instinct to make Black characters into background idiot characters. I suspect that Snyder himself was like that for some time. At one of my movie club outings, a man described 300 as the most racist movie he had ever seen. I can't reject the sentiment.

Anyway, I'm a bit worked up, part of that being due to the personal invective I've been getting. I also don't think that this tangent is interesting to enough people. So I should walk away, at least until I actually watch Rebel Moon. I hope I enjoy it, if I hate it as much as BvS I'll feel really embarassed lol.

ETA: I got sad when I realized it was already December 15th.

So you're saying everyone is just making up the Cult? No one here has had a run in, seen them, see those harassed, threatened? You think everyone is just making it up?

How was Finn, a supporting character in TFA, turned into an "background idiot character" in TLJ?

Which right wing Youtubers do you watch?

 

[Erzengel]

Wasn't that Faora social media person who was constantly telling people to call HBO, ATT or Discovery and telling people to call everyday?

 

[Sithborg]

In different news, I can't stand click bait like this:

James Gunn Throws Shade at Marvel

James Gunn went there. He's called out Marvel, and not held back. Posting on Threads, the DC co-CEO responded to comments his upcoming film, Superman: Legacy, has too many characters. “The whole point was it’s NOT a large film - I mean, not in terms of cast. It’s normal for single protagonist...

www.yahoo.com

Gunn did make some actual interesting points I the article, but they're not clearly about Marvel. They could be about anybody. Marvel, Singer, Snyder, Sony, etc.

It does seem like Superman has too many characters, but in his case he's demonstrably good at managing large casts.

I also thought that Matt Reeves' The Batman had a huge cast, but then when I watched it, it was fine.

That's rich coming from him. I'm pretty certain all his comic films and his comic show were pretty full with cameos.

Anyway, Marvel put out a trailer trying to sell Echo as some super serious, mature show.



I am ****ing laughing at their version of the hallway fight. Laughing.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's rich coming from him. I'm pretty certain all his comic films and his comic show were pretty full with cameos.

Anyway, Marvel put out a trailer trying to sell Echo as some super serious, mature show.



I am ****ing laughing at their version of the hallway fight. Laughing.

I'm going to laugh when this turns out to be good. It would cap off the last few years of irony with them.

 

[Kev4000]

That's rich coming from him. I'm pretty certain all his comic films and his comic show were pretty full with cameos.

Anyway, Marvel put out a trailer trying to sell Echo as some super serious, mature show.



I am ****ing laughing at their version of the hallway fight. Laughing.

Its worrying already the trailer needs a narrator, how will that work for a 40min episode?

 

[DA_Champion]

The worst example of "cameo porn" that I can think of is Anna Paquin in Days of Future Past.

ETA: Gunn vouched for the Flash, which misused/underused George Clooney and Antje Traue.

 

[Filmfreak]

The worst example of "cameo porn" that I can think of is Anna Paquin in Days of Future Past.

At least they had the decency of cutting her out of the theatrical cut since her scenes weren't working, unlike various MCU and DCEU examples of that term that unfortunately have made it to screen.

 

[Dr.]

The worst example of "cameo porn" that I can think of is Anna Paquin in Days of Future Past.

ETA: Gunn vouched for the Flash, which misused/underused George Clooney and Antje Traue.

I guess we all have our own definitions for what does or doesn’t constitute a gratuitous/gimmicky cameo (“cameo porn”). For me, I’d count Clooney in The Flash as gimmicky; but I’d exempt Traue. I.e., given that the Zod invasion from MOS is being recapitulated (a questionable choice, granted), then Faora’s appearance makes narrative sense. OTOH, Lynda Carter in WW84 is, IMO, a gratuitous cameo.

I suppose Stan Lee is the granddaddy of cameos. But those might be forgiven as “tradition” — along the lines of Hitchcock appearing in many of his own films.