The cosmic 'science' tree of life

[Webhead2006]

well if they go with how that marvel discription is or asgard i dont see any problems with that.

 

[Son of Coul]

I think he's referring more to the sci fi bent Feige mentioned. I'm not a huge fan of taking the gods out of the realm of myth and making them sci fi on a fundamental level, but it's just words at the moment. How they incorporate all that into the film is what matters. I suspect all it'll result in is some vague insinuation that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," as Arthur C. Clarke put it, which is fine by me so long as we don't see Iron Man figuring the "technology" of Mjolnir out in Avengers or anything. Explain it however you like, but at least let it still appear to be magic; that's the core of Thor's character, after all.

You don't want Stark breaking down the midichlorians of Thor's hammer???

 

[TheCorpulent1]

LUCAS!

 

[Spider-Fan]

I trust Marvel to know their own universe after TIH and IM (and IM2 based on previews). I think they'll explain Asgard like the comics have (as pointed out in previous posts).

 

[marvelboy10]

So now we know

Spoiler

the asgardians will be not god but cosmic beings

 

[Spidey-Quad]

The tree of life links earth to several other realms, Asgaurd has....or had a bridge that was some how broken....

I like the idea of a mix of 'magic' and tech, afterall Asguard has some pretty crazy cosmic advanced tech.... but the idea that it exists....opens the door to other dimensions, leading a possible path to Anihilus who could be played out as a huge threat and eventual villain to the Avengers.

Dude, you are getting it all wrong. Tree of science does not bring you any where remotely to
Anihius", as you have mention twice now, so please just stop it. The "BUG' Is from the "NEGATIVE ZONE" a dimension discovered by Reed Richard, you know him.... Mr. Fantastic of the FANTASTIC FOUR... not Fantastic Thor!

Let keep the cannon sacred. Anihius should be introduced in a FF movie, maybe after that you could introduce him to Thor, but I have my doubts even then. Thor has PLENTY of his own advisaries without swiping one from the FF. As for the Avengers, again they have their own group of interesting foes that could/should be explored before thieving from another book/Character.

The nine words are rich enough on their own with adding a portal to the "negative zone"

Just saying so... "Nuff sed!"

 

[GhostPoet]

In one of my screenplays there's an alien world that uses magic to power technological devices. A cheap, infinite source of energy. And instead of holographic communication, they use a form of astral projection, which is used in conjunction with technology.

 

[Weadazoid]

Dude, you are getting it all wrong. Tree of science does not bring you any where remotely to
Anihius", as you have mention twice now, so please just stop it. The "BUG' Is from the "NEGATIVE ZONE" a dimension discovered by Reed Richard, you know him.... Mr. Fantastic of the FANTASTIC FOUR... not Fantastic Thor!

Let keep the cannon sacred. Anihius should be introduced in a FF movie, maybe after that you could introduce him to Thor, but I have my doubts even then. Thor has PLENTY of his own advisaries without swiping one from the FF. As for the Avengers, again they have their own group of interesting foes that could/should be explored before thieving from another book/Character.

The nine words are rich enough on their own with adding a portal to the "negative zone"

Just saying so... "Nuff sed!"

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....could have sworn Thor has had helacious throw downs with Anihilus. I don't think I am trippin on that one


Any way I know the nine worlds have nothing to do with the negative zone....but...the science of one alternate reality.... opens up posibilites for others...Perhaps Dr. Strange has something to do with the discovery.... not that he is an Avenger.... but he could be under the same umbrella universe of Paramount and Diz.




People for some reason make a point to mention the Super Scrulls as possible opponents for the Avengers.... I find that one to be on the same level as shared canon.

 

[Webhead2006]

i would figure the skrulls fall under FF rights which is still held by fox.

 

[Wynter]

Okay, time for a myth and history lesson:

1. The Aryans (of which the Norse culture is a part) are descended from the ancient Persians, and their lore reflects this. The Persians were well know for their wise men (magicians), who were extremely well educated and versed in a wide range of mystic/religious concepts. Most notably, Daniel (the guy from the Bible) left them with a lot of Jewish lore and some writings he instructed them to keep.

2. The tree of life is another name for the Sephirot. It's not a physical tree, but a concept of how an almighty being we can't comprehend manifests in a manner to help finite beings understand something about itself. Think of it something like Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions. Fascinating stuff really. Guess what? It's a ring/cycle.

3. As of one of the upcoming Thor comics, they've shown the tree of life with the appropriate dots representing the Sephirot around it, so it's clear that Marvel writers are associating the tree of life with the Sephirot.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Okay, time for a myth and history lesson:

1. The Aryans (of which the Norse culture is a part) are descended from the ancient Persians, and their lore reflects this. The Persians were well know for their wise men (magicians), who were extremely well educated and versed in a wide range of mystic/religious concepts. Most notably, Daniel (the guy from the Bible) left them with a lot of Jewish lore and some writings he instructed them to keep.

2. The tree of life is another name for the Sephirot. It's not a physical tree, but a concept of how an almighty being we can't comprehend manifests in a manner to help finite beings understand something about itself. Think of it something like Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions. Fascinating stuff really. Guess what? It's a ring/cycle.

3. As of one of the upcoming Thor comics, they've shown the tree of life with the appropriate dots representing the Sephirot around it, so it's clear that Marvel writers are associating the tree of life with the Sephirot.

Interesting stuff,Wynter.
That's one of the things I love about Thor and the Asgardinas:their mythology is so rich

 

[Vartha]

wonder how much of Asgard is on the game?

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Does it bother anyone that they're defining Asgard as both fantastical AND scientific? If no, why not? If so, then why so? I don't know what to make of it yet.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Does it bother anyone that they're defining Asgard as scientific? Of no, why not? If so, then why so? I don't know what to make of it yet.

 

[Vartha]

No it doesn't bother most of the older fans. Kirby designed Asgard that way Nave.
Granted I have a soft spot for historical fantasy, I'm enjoying this.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think they're defining it as scientific. I think they're saying science and magic are indistinguishable in Asgard. Call it whatever you want, at the end of the day the point is that the Asgardians are extremely powerful and have built a civilization well beyond modern humanity's best. That's effectively the way Kirby and Lee treated it. Loki, Odin, and Karnilla were said to be sorcerers, but they also had mounted energy cannons on Asgard's walls and such. That's one of the things that bugged me about JMS and Coipel's portrayal recently, in fact: They made Asgard look like a medieval castle and Volstagg apparently didn't even know what indoor plumbing was. That doesn't work with what we saw of Asgard for its first twenty years or so.

 

[Vartha]

it'd be ironic tho something as simple as plumbing lacking in Asgard while it's highly tech/magic. lol

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess the system of tossing chamber pots over the walls wouldn't have been too bad for them, given that Asgard is floating over empty space. But still, it's just kind of weird and makes the Asgardians come off like idiots.

 

[Vartha]

Where I can see where it works with JMS' Asgard, I wouldn't see that working too well in the movie.
After all they ARE Norse gods I can see where that kind of thing would be a learned thing if they held onto certain things from the past, after all that was why Thor placed Asgard near a small town, to get in touch with mortals again and teach the Asgardians how midgard works.

 

[Weadazoid]

Well we now know the tree will referenced by the Red Skull in Captain America.... thats a pretty dope tie in

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Ah... that explains a lot (kind of). I'm not all that familiar with the comic book Thor (as...you might've guessed...) so this is new to me. A world where science and magic is inter-changeable is perhaps a great description for the Hereafter, but from what I've gathered so far, Asgard is depicted as... an entirely different planet? Or is the core story ambiguous on this in order to consolidate the 'mythological' status? Asgard is clearly no peaceful heaven, but I always thought it was a metaphysical realm. The Stan Lee Interpretation, however, seems to differ. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that it's different.

My real question is: Is Thor science fiction or fantasy? Or both? It seems to be an amalgamation of both. If so, then sweet. If not, then there's always fantasy.

 

[Vartha]

It's both Nave. Actually Thor fits into 3 film types, Superhero, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy/adventure, THAT's where Thor's different from most superhero films.
Thor's PAST can fit into the LotR category, if they would have used the first draft over the new script.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You have to remember that Asgard is the divine realm of a wholly separate set of beliefs from the Abrahamic religions. Valhalla, the mead hall that's roughly analogous to Heaven in modern religions, may not appear to be too "Heavenly" to us because it's not an eternally peaceful reward for the struggles of life, but the ancient viking culture revolved around glory in battle and conquest, so the idea of a heaven where they revel and party and wait for one final, glorious battle alongside their gods must've seemed pretty good to them. As for Asgard itself, it's more like Olympus than Heaven. It's primarily where the gods live; Valhalla is just one small part of it.

As for the comic version, it looks like a weird-shaped planet in space because initially that's what it was. Aliens could pass by it and everything, although Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were pretty clear that the Asgardians were indeed the gods of ancient Norse myth and not just aliens. It wasn't until the early '70s or so that other writers retconned Asgard so that it sat in its own separate dimension, away from normal space.

But, to make a long story short, yes, Thor is a mix of sci fi and fantasy. High tech stuff and magic are pretty common in Kirby and Lee's Asgard. For example, Odin was a sorcerer, but Asgard had very sci fi-looking cannons mounted on its walls. Thor is a god who deals with elves and trolls and such, but his comic was also the first to feature the Rigellians and an early version of Galactus' origin and Ego. There are seeming contradictions like that all over Marvel's portrayal of Asgard.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

It certainly makes him a more interesting character. I remember Branagh talking about how the first draft was going to focus on how an Old Testament God becomes a New Testament God (or some such). But that's, of course, not the only way to view a god born from Norse myth.

@ Vartha: I would've included the super hero genre, but that's something that's being redefined more and more. Thor is exceptional in that he isn't exactly limited to the storytelling formats that govern traditional superhero books. Not that it's bad, or that he cannot be written within those formats.

@Corpulent1: That's one of the things what's cool about the book(s); it's contradictory. The mixture of science fiction adds to that fantasy the same way a real mythology worked (presumably) for the Norse people. To them, Tales of Asgard were science. Think that's the way they're approaching the film?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Seems like it.

Thor's always been able to straddle the worlds of fantasy and sci fi. He's at home out in space just as much as he is fighting trolls and giants in Asgard. It's always fun to see writers bounce Thor back and forth and combine those genres in his comic.