The Danger Room Sequence!

[insane polaris]

Does anyone think that the final battle with Phoenix should have looked like the Danger Room Sequence?
All the X-men working together to defeat phoenix and then have wolverine kill her at the end.

Just imagine the scene with all the same actions.
for example phoenix throws a car and kitty holds on to bobby so the car phases through them.

it could of been easy to do, by keeping the x-men on the island rather than them helping the people over the bridge.

it would of had character interaction and developed on the relationships between storm + phoenix, and beast + phoenix (they could have remembered the first time they met) this could have brought the jean grey side back and give enough time for wolverine to kill her.

 

[Angamb]

Never thought this before. Definetly would have been nice. In fact, someone should do a video fixing both scenes.

anyone interested?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Hmm, very nice indeed. Definitely something I never thought about.

I definitely feel the final battle itself was lacking and not epic/apocalyptic enough to be considered a final battle? Not sure if that makes any sense. But your idea of it resembling the Danger Room sequence is different and would've been nice.

Definitely would've created some tense moments.

 

[Abaddon]

unfortunately the whole Phoenix thing was between Logan, Xavier, and Magneto. Cyke was dead and nobody really reacted to Jean's transformation.

 

[britrogue]

Totally. When I first saw the trailer, all the clips from the Danger Room sequence were what I thought was going to be X-Men Vs Phoenix

 

[November Rain]

there was really no way to fix a horrible scene...

magneto really didn't need another army, he just needed jean, jugs and pyro.

jean should have kept the guards busy but magneto should have lied to her saying it was a purely manufactured device.

Jugs should have come out with a smalle child and their intent to kill him and that should have set jean off who would have knocked out magneto

the rest of the x-men should have come in to first take out jugs and pyro and then have a big confrontation with jean.

all those insequential mutants placed in just for filler really served no purpose

 

[X-Maniac]

there was really no way to fix a horrible scene...

xavier really didn't need another army, he just needed jean, jugs and pyro.

jean should have kept the guards busy but magneto should have lied to her saying it was a purely manufactured device.

Jugs should have come out with a smalle child and their intent to kill him and that should have set jean off who would have knocked out magneto

the rest of the x-men should have come in to first take out jugs and pyro and then have a big confrontation with jean.

all those non-sequential mutants placed in just for filler really served no purpose

Hmmm... not really. In order for there to be something climactic...the war that has been mentioned through X1 and X2...Magneto needed to get an army to his cause to show he wasn't some lone operative and to show the idea that a cure for mutation had caused offence throughout society. The idea was that society itself was divided, enough that Magneto could create a large uprising against the cure. It wouldn't have worked to just have a small Brotherhood team. Even with Phoenix's power. The idea was for a face-off between mutants and humans, with the X-Men intervening.

You mentioned Xavier's army in the first line, obviously you meant Magneto. And you mentioned 'non-sequential' ( = not in sequence) when I think you meant inconsequential ( = unimportant).

Plus, I don't think Magneto could easily lie to a super-telepath like Jean. He had to persuade her honestly. She could read his thoughts to see if he was telling the truth.

 

[November Rain]

thanks on the corrections.

mags can lie because there is still no way to get into his head with his helmet on.

as for the war, i dont think it needed to be addressed in this film. The abolishment of the cure as well as the realisation that there were soldiers armed with 'cure' weaponary should have been the catalyst to set up the war in the next film.

the way it played out, was not climatic were nearly a hundred 'determined' mutants couldn't make their way through 3 adults a few teenaged ones.

 

[X-Maniac]

thanks on the corrections.

mags can lie because there is still no way to get into his head with his helmet on.

as for the war, i dont think it needed to be addressed in this film. The abolishment of the cure as well as the realisation that there were soldiers armed with 'cure' weaponary should have been the catalyst to set up the war in the next film.

the way it played out, was not climatic were nearly a hundred 'determined' mutants couldn't make their way through 3 adults a few teenaged ones.

Well, this is all irrelevant now. What's even the point of this discussion? We can't go back and undo what was done.

The studio wanted the war to break out in this movie, that's what we got. No matter how people think it was handled, we got a mutant army in this movie because Fox wanted to close off the story and reach a climax and a conclusion with it rather than drag it on into several more movies.

It probably wasn't climactic enough, but what are you going to do about it? Moan and whine more than a year after the movie was released? What's the point? There was a reason they did what they did, you either accept it or you don't. Time to move on rather than going over and over 'why didn't they...?' and 'they should have', 'they could have'... scenarios.

 

[November Rain]

well one could really argue that that's all all posters do in this place...

make comments about things they have no control over...

at the end of the day it's a place to voice one's opinion on the matter in a recorded place so others who feel the same way can find comfort or for people who disagree to also place their opinions.

I don't think anyone thinks their posts are influential but that doesn't invalidate their rights to post their opinions.

Even though this film got more bucks than the last two and ultimately the studio won, i believe it was a letdown on the way it handled, characters (old and new), plot development and fight scenes with no general direction or lesson learnt.

I hardly come into the x-men boards but just caught this thread and thought i'd throw some two cents in. You've made it seem as if i'm constantly in here making 'what if' claims.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Well, this is all irrelevant now. What's even the point of this discussion? We can't go back and undo what was done.

The studio wanted the war to break out in this movie, that's what we got. No matter how people think it was handled, we got a mutant army in this movie because Fox wanted to close off the story and reach a climax and a conclusion with it rather than drag it on into several more movies.

It probably wasn't climactic enough, but what are you going to do about it? Moan and whine more than a year after the movie was released? What's the point? There was a reason they did what they did, you either accept it or you don't. Time to move on rather than going over and over 'why didn't they...?' and 'they should have', 'they could have'... scenarios.

There is nothing wrong with discussing possibilities and still trying to understand why they rushed it. It's true that nothing can be done about it, but we can still discuss it, come up with new scenarios, and read others ideas on how they would've done it.

The poster who originally made this thread brought up an interesting idea. I sure as hell never thought about the Danger Room sequence being similar to Jean's final attack. When he mentioned the idea of a car phasing through Kitty and Bobby, that right there hooked me and got me thinking.

So I'm glad this thread was made and I'm glad it's opening up discussions once again. This forum has been completely dead and no intelligent discussions has been taking place. So hopefully this thread will offer some new ideas, new perspectives, and maybe future references for a restart or a sequel.

 

[X-Maniac]

You're a bit late to the party with your issues.... they have all been debated and dissected to death over the past 18 months or so.... I think it's a misguided assumption that Fox bosses are weeping and slashing their wrists and saying that all the hypesters are so right while they were so wrong.

The spin-offs will show us if they have 'learned' anything, if indeed they thought they had to 'learn' anything and be taught a lesson by the gods of the Hype.

It's easy to feel negative on here. It breeds on this place. The answer is usually to watch the movies again instead of relying on ever-distant, increasingly distorted memories.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

well one could really argue that that's all all posters do in this place...

make comments about things they have no control over...

at the end of the day it's a place to voice one's opinion on the matter in a recorded place so others who feel the same way can find comfort or for people who disagree to also place their opinions.

I don't think anyone thinks their posts are influential but that doesn't invalidate their rights to post their opinions.

Even though this film got more bucks than the last two and ultimately the studio won, i believe it was a letdown on the way it handled, characters (old and new), plot development and fight scenes with no general direction or lesson learnt.

I hardly come into the x-men boards but just caught this thread and thought i'd throw some two cents in. You've made it seem as if i'm constantly in here making 'what if' claims.

Exactly. This particular forum hasn't really been exciting nor has it offered any new discussions. So I say you should continue making analysis and offer new ideas November Rain.

You did nothing wrong and don't let his attitude drive you away. How should the final battle have looked to you? Do you feel a scenario similar to the Danger Room would've given it more of an epic, emotional, and more darker tone?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

You're a bit late to the party with your issues.... they have all been debated and dissected to death over the past 18 months or so.... I think it's a misguided assumption that Fox bosses are weeping and slashing their wrists and saying that all the hypesters are so right while they were so wrong.

The spin-offs will show us if they have 'learned' anything, if indeed they thought they had to 'learn' anything and be taught a lesson by the gods of the Hype.

It's easy to feel negative on here. It breeds on this place. The answer is usually to watch the movies again instead of relying on ever-distant, increasingly distorted memories.

To me the spin-offs aren't a template for me to see if they learned anything.

Spin-offs such as Wolverine and Magneto are different mediums because they're solo character and rather than concentrating on 5 or 6 characters, you can concentrate on one or two characters without the story suffering.

I have nothing to teach Fox. What's done is done. But I don't see a problem in having a discussion as long as it's intelligent and doesn't turn into a flame war.

No offense, but your attitude and your post seems as though you're looking for a fight.

As for the original idea of this thread. I must say that while the Danger Room sequence mirroring the final battle is a unique and nice concept, if it was me writing or filming the battle, my whole thought process would think about the possibility of having the battle be more widespread instead of in one spot. Like it would've been interesting to see the team split up at some point, and take part in key battles against the bigger characters.

Like for instance, say if Cyclops survived his encounter with Jean, it would've been interesting to see him take on Juggernaut or even Magneto alone. I just feel that for me as a fan it wasn't really epic or emotional enough for me.

One thing I would've LOVED to have seen as a final battle is another Wolverine/Sabretooth battle. I can honestly say that I was disappointed with their fight scene in X1.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm just saying that this place has been dead for a reason - that we have mostly discussed everything that can be discussed. If some new information were released for us to debate, then great; but other than that, we've covered all the possible debates... It all just feels like stale food reheated endlessly in a microwave.

However, if you want to debate it, go ahead. It just doesn't sound like anything new.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I'm just saying that this place has been dead for a reason - that we have mostly discussed everything that can be discussed. If some new information were released for us to debate, then great; but other than that, we've covered all the possible debates... It all just feels like stale food reheated endlessly in a microwave.

However, if you want to debate it, go ahead. It just doesn't sound like anything new.

Does anyone think that the final battle with Phoenix should have looked like the Danger Room Sequence?
All the X-men working together to defeat phoenix and then have wolverine kill her at the end.

Just imagine the scene with all the same actions.
for example phoenix throws a car and kitty holds on to bobby so the car phases through them.

it could of been easy to do, by keeping the x-men on the island rather than them helping the people over the bridge.

it would of had character interaction and developed on the relationships between storm + phoenix, and beast + phoenix (they could have remembered the first time they met) this could have brought the jean grey side back and give enough time for wolverine to kill her.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

What that poster stated hasn't been said before and it was something new. I liked what he mentioned and it's opened the floor for some new discussion.

 

[insane polaris]

Thank You LastSunrise for bringing the topic back.

I appreciate everyones interest in my statement.
It was just something i thought of while watching it again.
I never really understood why the X-men just left Wolverine to defeat Phoenix. Specially when during the Danger Room scene Storm was preaching to work as a team.
I know they worked as a team to cure Magneto but Phoenix is more power, she would effect more people if she unleashed her power on the world, it seems more realistic if the X-men banded together to take down the power which threatens the world more.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Thank You LastSunrise for bringing the topic back.

I appreciate everyones interest in my statement.
It was just something i thought of while watching it again.
I never really understood why the X-men just left Wolverine to defeat Phoenix. Specially when during the Danger Room scene Storm was preaching to work as a team.
I know they worked as a team to cure Magneto but Phoenix is more power, she would effect more people if she unleashed her power on the world, it seems more realistic if the X-men banded together to take down the power which threatens the world more.

Part of it I believe was due to lack of time, pushing Wolverine as the lead savior of the team, and not really developing a firm relationship with all of the characters from the beginning.

I believe we all agree that none of the characters really interacted with each other. You knew they were a family, but none of them really gave you the impression that they were like a family and would fight together. It would've been interesting to see each of the X-Men try to reach Jean.

 

[ToriL90]

thanks on the corrections.

mags can lie because there is still no way to get into his head with his helmet on.

He actually didn't wear his helmet for most of the movie, which I thought was a real mistake. I thought they bordered on ignoring her telepathy in the movie. I think they should have had a psychic fight between Jean and Xavier in her house, but I'm glad they didn't put in the one they filmed. As much as I loved Famke as Jean, her voiceover was really bad. Do another take where they're actually YELLING at each other in their heads, not whispering. Also, have Magneto wear his helmet, until the scene where Jean displays her power against Magneto - which I think should have been written a little differently:

Spoiler

FOREST - BROTHERHOOD BASE OF OPERATIONS - DAY

Jean is standing on a ledge above Magneto's army. The dim light of a cloudy day peeks through the trees, and a light wind softly tosses her hair.

Magneto walks up behind her, gazing in admiration at the virtually limitless creature.

MAGNETO: "Remember when we first met? You know what I saw when I looked at you? I saw the next stage in evolution. What Charles and I dreamt of finding. And I thought to myself, 'Why would Charles want to turn this goddess... into a mortal?"

He holds out a metal cup.

MAGNETO (Cont.): "I can manipulate the metal in this."

He makes the cup float in front of her.

MAGNETO (Cont.): "But you... You can do anything. Anything you can think of."

Jean stares at the cup. All she sees is Magneto's weakness. He is right: she is far more powerful than he is. Far more powerful than anything on the planet.

Without blinking, she decimates the cup

Magneto's helmet rises off of his head. Magneto steps back, wary of Jean's power display.

MAGNETO: "Jean..."

Suddenly, Magneto grips his head and screams. He drops to one knee, writhing in agony. In desperation, he barks out an order.

MAGNETO: "Jean! Enough!"

Without moving, Jean communicates with Magneto telepathically.

JEAN: You sound just like him.

She atomizes the helmet and releases Magneto from her psychic grasp. He stands up, visibly shaken. Jean turns around to face Magneto.

JEAN: "I will not be controlled, Erik. I am power. I am the Phoenix!"

She creates a blast of telekinetic energy to push Magneto back. She stares at him, letting him feel her presence; letting him know that he is greatly outmatched.

-----

That way, her telepathy is displayed as well as her telekinesis. He is aware of her telepathy and thinks he can protect against it just by wearing his helmet.Truth is, he's no match for her in any way. The helmet is useless if she can remove and obliterate it with just a thought.

 

[Abaddon]

They filmed a psychic battle scene?

 

[ToriL90]

They filmed a psychic battle scene?

In Jean's house, there was a lot of time when Jean and Xavier were quiet, while Jean just continued using her telekinesis. Remember? In those portions, there was going to be psychic dialogue, but it was taken out. You can hear it in the deleted scenes on the DVD (although, for some reason, it doesn't have all the other sound).

 

[X-Maniac]

Part of it I believe was due to lack of time, pushing Wolverine as the lead savior of the team, and not really developing a firm relationship with all of the characters from the beginning.

I believe we all agree that none of the characters really interacted with each other. You knew they were a family, but none of them really gave you the impression that they were like a family and would fight together. It would've been interesting to see each of the X-Men try to reach Jean.

Maybe so. The X-Men members were not shown interacting much from the beginning. Once Pyro joined Magneto, that was that. Once Jason Stryker had left the school, that was that. Once Jean had joined Magneto, that was that. Storm makes clear her feelings when she talks to Logan before he takes off to the forest encampment. It was only in X1, when Rogue left, that there was a desperate attempt to find her and bring her back. Other than that, when others have made choices, there has been little attempt to dissuade them from those choices.

There was little attempt to show the X-Men as a family, from the beginning. As I've said many times, they were more like co-workers than friends. At the very start, Singer created a certain coldness, which helped create a moody atmosphere but did little to create the sort of warmth and camaraderie needed for good teamwork. This continued throughout the movies.

For Storm to care deeply about Jean, we'd have needed to see that sort of bond established much earlier. X3 merely went with the flow of what had already been established - an emotional distance/coldness between most of the characters, who were largely orphans, runaways and loners hiding at the mansion from the outside world.

 

[Abaddon]

In Jean's house, there was a lot of time when Jean and Xavier were quiet, while Jean just continued using her telekinesis. Remember? In those portions, there was going to be psychic dialogue, but it was taken out. You can hear it in the deleted scenes on the DVD (although, for some reason, it doesn't have all the other sound).

this?
[YT]LnOWgpPIQDw[/YT]

 

[Vasilios]

Can someone post the dialogue to this deleted scene?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Maybe so. The X-Men members were not shown interacting much from the beginning. Once Pyro joined Magneto, that was that. Once Jason Stryker had left the school, that was that. Once Jean had joined Magneto, that was that. Storm makes clear her feelings when she talks to Logan before he takes off to the forest encampment. It was only in X1, when Rogue left, that there was a desperate attempt to find her and bring her back. Other than that, when others have made choices, there has been little attempt to dissuade them from those choices.

There was little attempt to show the X-Men as a family, from the beginning. As I've said many times, they were more like co-workers than friends. At the very start, Singer created a certain coldness, which helped create a moody atmosphere but did little to create the sort of warmth and camaraderie needed for good teamwork. This continued throughout the movies.

For Storm to care deeply about Jean, we'd have needed to see that sort of bond established much earlier. X3 merely went with the flow of what had already been established - an emotional distance/coldness between most of the characters, who were largely orphans, runaways and loners hiding at the mansion from the outside world.

Of course the blame goes to Singer and his writing department. Do you believe that because the first two films were good in quality that it's easy to overlook that concept?

I've noticed that sometimes a film is so great that, despite its flaws, you really don't notice them until you examine the material and realize that a lot of key elements were missed in that film.

But like you said, none of the X-Men really interacted with one another in the trilogy. I often wonder if it was because Singer didn't want them to sound too cheesy? Or maybe it was so many characters that one, two, or three people were going to be ignored?