Discussion in 'Misc. Comics Films' started by LvtLeeTDK, Apr 27, 2019.
Little Stevie was a prodigy.
Its not someone winning an award they didn't deserve, its an all time great beating a bunch of worthy contenders. Comparing TDK to Jethro Tull just reeks of off the mark saltiness.
After 4th viewing of Endgame, I've taken my vote from TDK back and leave it as a tie.
I really really can't decide which one is the greatest CBM for me. On second viewing of Endgame I thought TDK clearly took this but now it's so hard to decide.
Endgame is pure fanservice and I'm ok with that. They could make a 100 The Dark Knight's but i'd never be as satisfied as I've been with watching Endgame.
The Dark Knight is a great movie, but the emotions I have watching Endgame will never be beat by some lowly trilogy.
Personally, I like Infinity War a lot more than Endgame and I'd put TDK over both of them.
Decided to revisit this thread because I want to change my vote.
Upon further reflection I've decided I don't much enjoy TDK overall as a film. It has it's high marks for sure and to this day I still think Ledger's Joker is the greatest villain in all of geek cinema, but everything else is kind of a f*****g drag.
Meanwhile Endgame is a fun, wholesome adventure jam packed with thrills and all sorts of different emotions... starring a group of characters that are actually likable and engaging.
Endgame > TDK
Endgame = The Dark Knight. Both have some pros and cons here and here. I liked and enjoyed the The Dark Knight (a.k.a. Batman Falls), but in retrospect I really don't care for it that more. Endgame though, it's good finale to the 21 films before it, but the timey-wimey thing drags me down a bit. But whatever both films are good in their own right.
I enjoyed seeing them travel through time, but I hated how they came up with it.
I might have appreciated it more if the heroes had to sacrifice something or risk something in order to discover time travel instead of Tony just inventing it on a whim at his weekend house. That was too hokey and convenient.
Like maybe if it took the combined efforts of both Banner and Stark after months of grueling research only to have it require some insanely high stake experiment.
The Dark Knight is better.
Captain America wielding Mjolnir alone is better than the entirety of TDK.
Endgame is great, but c'mon..
I kind of dislike the whole time travel / Greatest Hits section of Endgame. There's like zero fat on TDK, so it gets my vote as it's the better movie.
Those sections of the movie is why it'll probably age like the first Avengers. People will still love it, but really just care more about the 3rd act.
IW is a film I don't really love, but with the way it handled Thanos and its ending could make it age better.
Endgame was one of the best MCU films for sure, but it's got ****in NOTHING on TDK.
Masterfully crafted film making and stunts pulled off with little to no CGI>>>>>> a CGI ****fest any day
Ledger's Joker is also a far better villain than Thanos
Both movies have logic issues, but at least Endgame has some excuse for it by doing a complicated time travel story. Such movies always have some gaps so you expect it going in. TDK fails at just making the villain be intelligent and instead has him rely solely on plot armor. The plans would be more at home in the old 60's camp show, which creates severe dissonance with a movie that takes itself as seriously and is as gritty as TDK. It tries to be a superhero crime movie but good crime movies have much tighter scripts.
Endgame misuses some characters and that's a problem that was less expected. On the other hand TDK does as well, as Rachel is a poor character and Batman isn't as interesting as he was in Begins. Endgame does deliver the emotional beats strongly and I did feel the sense of loss when there were deaths, while with Rachel I rather felt relief that she was off the screen and while Dent was very good the Two-Face was bad so that lowered the tragedy of that as well.
These are two flawed movies, none are the real masterpieces that some try to say as I see it, but Endgame succeeds better at what it tries to do and is also helped by that it isn't thoroughly thrashed by lots of movies in a genre like TDK is in the crime genre. Sure, TDK has more action than many crime movies but since the fight scenes are crap it's not helping.
Strongly disagree on the "zero fat" thing
TDK slows down quite a bit in the middle there, it's actually difficult to make it through when I try to watch it nowadays, I'd cut out most of the love triangle drama, personally... in fact, just cut Rachel out of both of those movies and I feel like the movies would be just as good if not better
On Endgame, I'd agree the time heist goes on a bit long... when Cap and Tony go back to the 70's it starts to feel like, "okay, let's move this along"... the 2014 Thanos bit isn't my fave either, but it's necessary to set up the final battle
TDK is on a league of its own. No contest.
Someone said the Cap/Mjolnir scene alone is better than all of TDK. It'd have to be, because 2/3rds of Endgame don't measure up. The fanwank and time travel stuff alone disqualifies Endgame from being as good or better than TDK, IMO.
There are great scenes all throughout TDK. With Endgame, you basically have to wait two hours for the really good stuff.
I think Cap/Mjolnir is definitely better than any single moment in TDK, arguably outside of the interrogation scene... but those are two very different "best scenes", one being an action set piece and the other being a platform for Heath Ledger to do some serious f***ing acting
but idk, there's a lot of waiting around in TDK too
As a film, a concise single story, TDK is better... but Endgame is a culmination, a final act
The two films really can't even be compared, since they are such different animals
Winter Soldier and TDK are the more apples-to-apples comparison
I never liked the Dark Knight from the beginning. It reeks of pretentiousness and self-importance, like most of Nolan's films. And the battle at the skyscraper with the hostages/clowns is perhaps the most incoherent action scene I have ever seen.
I don’t know how you even compare these two movies. One is the culmination of a decade of planning and 22 movies while the other is grounded in realistic plausibility.
Its a trend here on these forums. Has been since 2008. Every time any remotely popular CBM is released, doesn't matter about the style, tone, whether its an origin movie, a sequel, the conclusion of a trilogy, the tenth movie in a franchise, a huge superhero ensemble etc, it gets pitted against TDK to see if it can topple it on the popularity poll.
TDK is the better constructed movie, no doubt from me. Endgame mis-uses Hulk and Thor too much for my liking and that reduces my excitement whenever they were on screen. The original Avengers got every one of the main Avengers characters right and Endgame is a big departure from that.
The whole timetravel element is messy, contrived storytelling. When you dealing with so many macguffins to try and defeat the villain using an array of pym particles, alternate timelines, alternate versions of characters, time gps-devices and multiple infinity gems then sorry, thats not good efficient storytelling. In contrast TDK is simple and effective, at least it presents itself that way. The viillain-hero dynamic is more layered and goes beyond the simple must defeat villain at all costs cliche. When the Avengers are facing Thanos there is little to no sense of a clash beyond just physical brute force. When The Batman is confronting Joker in all the scenes in TDK, there is so much more richness that delves into a metaphysical clash alongside the physical threat. That makes their dynamic more layered and compelling by its very nature.