The Dark Knight Rises vs Batman Returns

[Awest66]

Both films stand as divisive entries in their respective film series but which one do you consider to be better?

or

 

[Rorschach2012]

Love both, but BR

 

[BH/HHH]

Better Batman: Keaton
Better Catwoman: Pfeiffer
Better villain: Penguin

But Rises is my answer, Returns has some of the worst dialogue I've ever heard in a film, even though Batman doesn't appear much in Rises also at least Bruce Wayne is the main chatavayer of the films. Keaton's Bruce/Batman plays second fiddle to the rest of the main cast. Don't get me wrong I like Returns but Rises is just a better movie.

 

[B]

The Dark Knight Rises.. albeit by the slimmest of margins.

Both are good movies IMO, not perfect or the best in each series of Batman movies, but still good none the less each with there own redeemable qualities. I love them both.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

TDKR, by a lot. I'm not a big fan of BR.

 

[Batmannerism]

Difficult to compare these two. BR has a better Cat woman, but both have underwhelming main villains with misconceived and preposterous master plans ( I'm going to kill all the first born sons vs I'm going to hold the city hostage and then blow it up anyway) although I'm not sure whether I liked Devito's bloodthirsty Penguin more or less than Hardy's mumbling Bane.

I'm going to go against the grain and say Batman Returns. I remember enjoying both films immensely, first time in the cinema. However I feel TDKR actually bears up worse over time - whereas the good bits of BR stand out more - and Michelle Pfieffer is my all time favorite Catwoman.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Hard call. Batman Returns was only slightly less silly than Batman & Robin.
But TDKR had huge chunks of the movie that were boring as hell.
I'd go with Batman Returns because I have watched it dozens of times
first at the theater. Then on video tape, and more recently on DVD.
So I must find BR entertaining. While so far I have only seen TDKR once,
in the theater.
I do like the Batman and Catwoman in TDKR more because they seemed
more like the characters in the comic books. Not that I didn't like the
character Michelle Pfeiffer was playing. Burton just deviated too much
from the source material.
Could have done without both Penguin and Bane and made both movies Bat vs Cat.

 

[Frodo]

I'd say Rises overall as well. My issue with Rises is that imo , its over written . I think that less is more approach is more effective such as in BB and TDK.

Still, I prefer overwritten ,and too many plates in the air ,to BR, which I feel is underwritten, in which the hero, is a supporting character in his own film .

Interestingly, both Bruce's are sort in a rut and searching for something more beyond the Batcave. However , I think TDKR conveys this idea much better .

While I prefer Michelle's Catwoman as someone who's unpredictable,dynamic and dangerous, I prefer that Hathaway's stuck closer to the comics. I just wish her character had a bigger role and was a bigger driving force of the narrative.

Penguin and Bane mirror each other in someways in that they're both tragic beast-men shunned by society. They both give great performances , though Hardy's Bane is chilling , awesome, and a true threat.

Shrek and Talia are both bland villains imo who are the puppet masters that are ultimately less interesting then their pawns.

TDKR at least gives Bruce a happy ending while BR is a bit dreary.

 

[Mr. Forest]

Easily TDKR. I'm not overly fond of BR these days.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Batman Returns is actually my #2 live-action Batman movie after The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight Rises is my #3 - so BR just takes this.

 

[Awest66]

but both have underwhelming main villains with misconceived and preposterous master plans

One of them does at any rate.

Bane's plan was pretty straight forward all things considered (Slowly destroy Gotham while forcing Bruce to watch, thus making him realize the depths of his failure in helping it) as opposed to the Penguin who kept switching from one poorly conceived plan to the next (killing children to becoming Max Shrecks patsy mayor back to killing children and then finally using rocket penguins)

BR has a better Cat woman,

That's debatable as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DACrowe]

Love both, but TDKR. Despite what fanboys say, Rises is actually a pretty impressive achievement with immense filmmaking, great performances, and one of the most satisfying endings in the entire genre. It's no TDK, but what is? Also I will defend Hardy's Bane and Hathaway's Catwoman, always

With that said I love Batman Returns and like Pfeiffer's Catwoman even more--although I do note that Hathaway's Catwoman is actually how I traditionally like to see the character portrayed. Anyway, Returns is great when viewed as a hypnotic piece of modern German Expressionism and Tim Burton weirdness. As a story though it is a bit slow, and as a Batman story, it still leaves something to be desired. A great movie, but a more flawed one between the two.

 

[titansupes]

TDKR, of course. Love me some BR though, my favourite of that series.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Despite what fanboys say, Rises is actually a pretty impressive achievement with immense filmmaking, great performances, and one of the most satisfying endings in the entire genre. It's no TDK, but what is? Also I will defend Hardy's Bane and Hathaway's Catwoman, always

I voted for Batman Returns but I agree with this ^

 

[Brother Jack]

Love both, but TDKR. Despite what fanboys say, Rises is actually a pretty impressive achievement with immense filmmaking, great performances, and one of the most satisfying endings in the entire genre. It's no TDK, but what is? Also I will defend Hardy's Bane and Hathaway's Catwoman, always

With that said I love Batman Returns and like Pfeiffer's Catwoman even more--although I do note that Hathaway's Catwoman is actually how I traditionally like to see the character portrayed. Anyway, Returns is great when viewed as a hypnotic piece of modern German Expressionism and Tim Burton weirdness. As a story though it is a bit slow, and as a Batman story, it still leaves something to be desired. A great movie, but a more flawed one between the two.

I pretty much agree. You have to give Returns props for just how twisted it is. It might be the weirdest, darkest mainstream superhero movie ever made. The fact that a film that macabre, disturbing, and sexually charged had Happy Meal toys is kind of unbelievable in hindsight.

 

[Batmannerism]

One of them does at any rate.

Bane's plan was pretty straight forward all things considered (Slowly destroy Gotham while forcing Bruce to watch, thus making him realize the depths of his failure in helping it)

Plus trapping all the police in Gotham in the sewers for months, reenacting parts of the regin of terror from the French Revolution, before ultimately getting himself vaporized by the bomb along with the rest of Gotham - all of which proved exactly what ? Unlike the Joker, who pretty much exists to mess with Batman I like to think Bane has more of an agenda than that.

If that works for you, fair enough, but to me, it's kind of like Tony Stark said to Loki in the Avengers:

"Not a great plan."

as opposed to the Penguin who kept switching from one poorly conceived plan to the next (killing children to becoming Max Shrecks patsy mayor back to killing children and then finally using rocket penguins)

Yup, IMO those are all just as preposterous as Bane's plan.

That's debatable as far as I'm concerned.

Far be it from me to criticize anyone's preference for a particular Catwoman, but for me Michelle P was simply the best, Anne H wasn't bad, but not in the same class as Michelle IMO.

Cheers

 

[marvelrobbins]

batman returns and it's not even close.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Batman Returns for me. TDKR is rushed and clumsy film, even through there's plenty of stuff to love.

I vastly prefer Pfeiffer in the role, Anne didn't bring anything interesting. But I love Hemming's design of the Catsuit. Overall, performances are better in Returns for me too.

 

[Awest66]

Plus trapping all the police in Gotham in the sewers for months, reenacting parts of the regin of terror from the French Revolution, before ultimately getting himself vaporized by the bomb along with the rest of Gotham - all of which proved exactly what

All of those things fit pretty neatly into what I just described Bane's plan as being and what's more, How do figure he planned to get himself vaporized? The end of Bane's speech ("When Gotham is in ashes then you'll have my permission to die") is a pretty big indicator that he'll be back in the pit to give it.

those are all just as preposterous as Bane's plan.

Not even close, The Penguin's are more preposterous by far.

but for me Michelle P was simply the best

Hathaway may not be as "memorable" as Pfeiffer's (what traditional version of Catwoman could be?) because she didn't play the part as exaggerated and crazy but she more than held her own as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Awest66]

TDKR is rushed and clumsy film,

And Returns isn't? I fail to see your point.

Overall, performances are better in Returns for me too.

Pfieffer and Devito overact while everyone else underacts. How is that better?

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah, I don't think the original plan had Bane or Talia dying in nuclear fire. They were both fine with such, *if* it proved necessary, but "nuclear suicide" wasn't the first entry on their list of options.

 

[BatOnTheWing]

Batman Returns, and that's an easy choice for me.
I was never too impressed by The Dark Knight Rises, honestly.
Batman Returns was bizarrely fun, and The Dark Knight Rises was just awkward.

TDKR's Selina Kyle (apparently, she was supposed to be Catwoman?) was weak.
Tom Hardy as Bane was the best part of TDKR for me; Batman wasn't too impressive.
He as a character was more exciting in The Dark Knight, and even in Batman Begins.

Pfieffer remains the definitive Selina Kyle/Catwoman for me; there's no topping that.
Devito's Penguin was a lot of fun; that said, this was the biggest issue in BR for me.

 

[OutOfBoose]

And Returns isn't? I fail to see your point.

Returns isn't. Maybe it isn't to people's liking because it's overtly violent, grotesque and deviant character-wise, but I don't see anything clumsy or rushed about it. At least in comparison to the other Burton Batman movie. I believe it's ups and downs are inherent to the interpretation of the world that Burton created. Unlike TDKR, which is just overwritten and undercooked.

Pfieffer and Devito overact while everyone else underacts. How is that better?

Except they don't.

 

[Boom]

The Dark Knight Rises is a better film in almost every single regard, but I enjoy Batman Returns more.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Returns isn't. Maybe it isn't to people's liking because it's overtly violent, grotesque and deviant character-wise, but I don't see anything clumsy or rushed about it. At least in comparison to the other Burton Batman movie. I believe it's ups and downs are inherent to the interpretation of the world that Burton created. Unlike TDKR, which is just overwritten and undercooked.
Except they don't.

Yup, three of the things I love about it!