The Format War

[hippie_hunter]

Ken Graffeo, co-President of the HD DVD Promotions Group told Video Business that his organization has found that price is the biggest motivating factor for consumers when it comes to buying a high-def disc player.

He is sooooooo full it. If that were the case, blu-ray wouldn't be literally handing HD-DVD its ass.

 

[Jerry!]

Well I know films would be a little dull if you understood what was going from the start, but this one was a little too much. I genuinely had no idea of anything. I couldn't follow anything. It was just too odd for me, and I like a quirky film.

Do yourself a favor and never watch Memento then.

 

[Avalanche]

Do yourself a favor and never watch Memento then.

I own and love Memento. Awesome film. I could sit down and have some patience at the beginning of Memento. A Scanner Darkly I just couldn't.

 

[Spidey17]

Memento went back in time right?

 

[Jerry!]

Yeah in the sense that it kind of played from the end to the beginning.

 

[Avalanche]

Memento went back in time right?

It went back in time in chunks, so that the start of one scene is the end of the scene that comes after it. Very clever. Love the film.

 

[imdaly]

Amazon to offer independent films in HD format online
July 1, 2007

Amazon.com Inc. will begin selling high-definition independent films in the HD-DVD format through its on-demand DVD printing service, the company said late Sunday.

The web retailer said it will waive processing fees for the first 1,000 films it accepts for production by its CustomFlix Labs Inc. subsidiary. Microsoft Corp. will supply the necessary technology — VC1 high-def video encoding software and the HDi program used to package the film and extra features on the disk.

Microsoft's Amir Majidimehr, corporate vice-president for the consumer media technology group, said 90 per cent of HD-DVDs use Microsoft's encoding and interactive programs, and that Amazon's support could help extend the format's reach.

"We believe in this format. We're really committed to HD-DVD," he said.

With CustomFlix, when a customer buys a movie, it kicks off an automated process that copies the film onto a disk and puts together the packaging on the spot. The company did not provide details as to how many customers have used CustomFlix to buy on-demand DVDs, or how much an on-demand HD-DVD might cost.

Amazon said it will offer Sundance Channel's Big Ideas for a Small Planet series via the on-demand service.

Source

 

[Zenien]

Admittedly there has been a decent amoutn of good HD-DVD related news lately, I honestly do believe that BR should strive to be more price competitive to HD-DVD players if they and those exclusive to BR were beign as serious about it as TOshiba and Universal, the war would be over by now. (In terms of selling their players at almost not profit adn even at a loss, and burnign through their release catalogues and older with a high frequency. Instead though the CE manufacturers want to make money on their players and the exclusive content providers don't want to burn through their catalogue of older titles until BR wins, but day and date releases on big movies are still dramatically in favor of BR, and cheaper BR players are coming as well as a PS3 price drop.

 

[imdaly]

China pact perks up HD DVD
June 28, 2007

Chinese consumer electronics companies are one step closer to producing inexpensive HD DVD players. Format backers hope the move will ultimately lead to victory in their fight with rival next-generation format Blu-ray Disc, but Blu-ray supporters decry the news as insignificant.

The steering committee of the DVD Forum has approved the final draft of a memorandum of understanding with the leading Chinese developer of optical discs, paving the way for the creation of a Chinese HD DVD format.

The deal, with China's Optical Memory National Engineering Research Center, marks the first time China is participating in a standardization process for content within a global entity, the DVD Forum, which also gives its stamp of approval to standard DVD.

Although a Chinese HD DVD format would have some differences from the global HD DVD format, backers maintain that similarities in manufacturing would make it easy for Chinese consumer electronics companies to then also produce HD DVD players for a worldwide market, including the U.S.

That could tip the scale in favor of HD DVD, according to Ken Graffeo, executive vp high-definition strategic marketing at Universal Studios Home Entertainment and co-president of the North American and European HD DVD Promotional Group.

Graffeo said that it was inexpensive Chinese DVD players retailing for less than $100 that really spurred the DVD to mass adoption, and he is hoping the same thing will happen with HD DVD. Currently, the lowest-priced HD DVD player, from Toshiba, can be purchased for $299 after a $100 mail-in rebate, while the cheapest Blu-ray Disc player, from Sony, sells for $499.

"Hardware drives software," Graffeo said. "Why do you think they give away the razor? It's because they want you to buy the blade."

Graffeo noted that when Toshiba began offering its $100 rebate on HD DVD players in May, player sales soared 70%. "We sold 70,000 units in seven weeks, from a base of 100,000 units," he said.

The Blu-ray Disc set-top count is unclear, but Sony's PlayStation 3 comes with a built-in Blu-ray Disc drive. About 1.4 million PS3s have been sold to U.S. consumers since the pricey next-generation game machine's retail debut in November.

However, dedicated high-def disc players, Graffeo said, tend to have "the highest attach rate" and thus drive software sales. And if economies of scale -- HD DVD is based on existing DVD technology, so players are cheaper, and easier, to produce -- leads to a flood of low-priced Chinese HD DVD machines, consumer response could be so overwhelming that the studios that don't support the format would have no choice but to switch.

At this point, Universal is the only studio to exclusively support HD DVD. Paramount Home Entertainment and Warner Home Video support both HD DVD and Blu-ray, and 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, Buena Vista Home Entertainment, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment and Lionsgate are exclusively in the Blu-ray camp.

"Everybody will admit this, that the consumer will ultimately decide (which format wins)," Graffeo said. "Wherever the consumer goes, the studios will follow."

Blu-ray Disc Assn. spokesman Andy Parsons dismisses the importance of the announcement. "The memo is for a Chinese HD DVD format only, so it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that this will translate into cheap HD DVD players being exported into the United States."

A high-ranking studio executive on the Blu-ray side, who asked not to be named, agreed.

"Why would companies that happen to be based in China look at the format war any differently than any other company outside China?" he said. "They are business people, and watching the rest of the market very closely. If HD DVD is losing steam in the United States, Europe and Japan, what would interest them in exporting players that have less market potential than Blu-ray? The whole thing smacks of desperation."

Source

 

[imdaly]

By the way, Zenien, I watched "Serenity" last night for the first time (on HD DVD to be specific ) and when your sig was quoted towards the end, it reminded me of you

 

[Zenien]

That's so sweet.

[BLACKOUT]Serenity on Blu Ray plz[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Downhere]

That's so sweet.

[blackout]Serenity on Blu Ray plz[/blackout]

You know, with the HD-DVD price drop, you will soon be able to get one for around $200-240ish on Amazon and other places, why not go format neutral. It truly is the only way to be, of course if you have the cash.

 

[Zenien]

I'd rather support one format then both, because by supporting both I'm endorsing both staying alive instead of one. Having one format means better adoption etc, HD-content is le awesome and I want to see it succeed.

In all honesty I picked BR because it has the best chance to win, because it has the most movies I want, now and in the future, and because I could get an awesome BR player integrated into what will be a great console.

Though I might as well have spent the money I used to buy a Wii on an HD-DVD player, even though the lowest end one doesn't do 1080P, because this far the Wii has been a big 400 dollars in total waste of monies.

But Smash Brothers, Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime 3 will fix that I hope.

Oh yeah when will this weeks numbers come out (meaning the numbers for the week of the 26th etc). I mean we have the eek where BR has like 2 releases which aren't exclusive and HD-DVD has like a gabillion.

 

[Downhere]

Eh, supporting one or the other doesn't matter at the moment. As even if Blu-Ray won right now it would still have similar software sales for the time being due to price of hardware. Right now, I'm HD-DVD only at the moment but I'm working on getting a Blu-ray player for a heavily discounted price. But, the format war is good at the moment. It's bringing prices down to joe six pack levels and once it hits the magical 200 or below mark then that will be the breaking point, until then the format war is good. Plus, the format war got the Blu folks to think about quality instead of the sub par releases they had early on. Either way, the format war is far from over so it comes down to this, if you love High Def, then neutral is where it is at, but this is assuming you have the extra coin to jump into both formats.

 

[KALEL114]

We need to keep a good eye on this. It could be very pivotal in this so called "format war".

http://online.wsj.com/public/articl...Wtx2t2PHwY_20070802.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

 

[imdaly]

^^Very interesting....

Also:

Sony Sued Over Blu-ray Patent Infringement
by Clint DeBoer — last modified July 02, 2007 16:31

Sony enters new lawsuit over Blu-ray
What's that Sony sued again for patent infringement? Yes, not content to just be getting over a settlement with Kodak over 10 digital camera patents and another with Immersion that dealt with force feedback controls on the Playstation2, Sony is being dragged into court again - this time over Blu-ray Disc manufacturing technology.

The challenging patent in question:
Metal alloys for the reflective or the semi-reflective layer of an optical storage mediumAbstract: A silver-based alloy thin film is provided for the highly reflective or semi-reflective coating layer of optical discs. Elements that can be added to silver to produce useful silver alloys include zinc, aluminum, copper, manganese, germanium, yttrium, bismuth, scandium, and cobalt. These alloys have moderate to high reflectivity and reasonable corrosion resistance in the ambient environment.

The patent is held by Target Technology and was filed on April 16, 2004, and awarded on March 28, 2006. The general complaint is being filed against the discs themselves, not the payers, and it would be supposed that Sony could possibly alter its manufacturing method. In either case, Target is requesting a jury trial, a formal statement that the patents are valid and enforceable, unspecified damages and an injunction against Sony which would keep them from manufacturing additional discs. Obviously Sony and the studios will need to move forward with BD manufacturing so it stands to reason that they will be ponying up whatever settlement fees are required to keep the discs in production.

What is uncertain is how much this will be and what it means to future manufacturing processes of the discs. It's possible that Sony will pay licensing fees, but if that happens, Toshiba would be very foolish indeed to not attempt to go to the table once more and strike a deal on a combinable HD-DVD format. Whether this is even possible or just another pipe dream is unknown, but the industry would be much better off if it happened. Sony is arguably big enough that a royalty fee for sidestepping this patent may not even dent the company or cause more than a minor stock hiccup.

Source

and

Blu-ray players to be obsolete by 2007
A sensationalist headline perhaps, but with the format only finally being standardised at the end of 2007, that could well be the reality for early adopters...

Hi-def buyers beware: current Blu-ray players will be rendered effectively obsolete by the end of the year. That’s the consequence of a much-delayed mandate by the governing Blu-ray disc association.

Although at first glance both Blu-ray and its rival HD DVD appear equally matched, there is a significant difference between the two. HD DVD machines have come to the market fully-formed, with a finalized specification and uniform compatibility; Blu-ray players are being sold with an unfinalised specification. And these differences are frustrating studios, particularly those trying to release comparable products on both high-def formats.

To resolve the situation, the Blu-ray Disc Association has mandated that all BD players going on sale after October 31 must conform to BD Profile 1.1 (aka the Final Standard profile) in order to offer fully-functioning BD-Java, bringing PIP interactivity for in-movie commentaries and special features.By standardizing Profile 1.1, Blu-ray chiefs hope to finally realise the undisputed potential of the system. The news will come too late for the format’s early adopters, but it will allow Hollywood to finally develop and release fully-interactive Blu-ray discs. Until now, these unrealised aspects of the Blu-ray specification have prevented BD titles from competing against more technologically-advanced HD DVD releases.

Profile 1.1 is seen as essential by Warner before it can release high-profile franchises like The Matrix and Batman on BD. Understandably, they want the user experience to be comparable, regardless of format. A couple of BD titles already apparently offer picture-in-picture functionality, but the makers of The Descent and Crank have cleverly deceived by actually storing two complete versions of each film on a 50GB disc, one with a PiP commentary burnt-in to the video and one without. At best, it’s a wasteful fudge of the format’s capacity. At worst it’s indicative of the smoke and mirrors approach used by Blu-ray’s advocates to challenge HD DVD.

So what’s the state of play with current BD hardware and what’s the upshot for current owners? Surprisingly, even the cerebrally-advanced PlayStation 3 is unable to offer full BD-Java (although this could possibly be enabled via firmware) and there’s certainly no dedicated player available to access BD Live (aka Profile 2) – the as yet un-realised online interactive option theoretically possible with the format.

Should movie studios begin shipping titles with advanced BD-Java functionality, existing kit would at best just miss out on all or some of the special feature trickery. The movie itself though, should at least play. Players like the Samsung BD-P1000 and Panasonic DMP-BD10A, both Profile 1 machines, can have their firmware updated via CD-ROM. However, this alone is not enough to elevate them to Profile 1.1.

Both manufacturers are being deliberately coy about revealing the amount of persistent storage (that’s to say, hard drive or flash memory) their current models have. When asked, Panasonic would only venture. ‘Sorry, but this (information) is not specified.’ Pioneer, which has its own Blu-ray player due in Europe this Summer, also declined to make any comment prior to a pan-European press conference due in May.

According to the Profile 1.1 specification, players need a minimum of 256MB of persistent memory storage to run BD-Java PIP, not to mention a secondary video decoder. To access BD Live, hardware needs not only Ethernet connectivity, but 1GB of memory, to store and buffer downloaded content. As yet, no hardware vendor has hinted at compliant equipment, although Sony’s PlayStation 3 would seem to have all the requisite processing muscle and storage to handle it, should firmware allow. In reality, mass-market BD Live-enabled Blu-ray players are at least a year away from reality and software maybe even more than that.

Source

 

[Avalanche]

A jury trial seems unlikely. They're generally avoid in this type of case if it would be too complicated for a jury to understand fully.

 

[Zenien]

Damn HD DVD is on a pr offensive

 

[Dark_Lord]

I already have a 360 (from launch) but I was also planning on getting a PS3 (I will, for sure but towards the end of Summer).
I read that the first Blu-Ray players, including the PS3 dont support some features that the HD-DVD, players, do. The in-movie experience or something. Will this be "fixed"? And I assume when they "fix" this you'll be able to upgrade the firmware of your PS3 BR drive online, right?

I dont think this is a problem but I was just wondering.

 

[KALEL114]

Damn HD DVD is on a pr offensive

True dat. I think we have only seen the beginning. The closer to the holidays we get the dirtier this war will get on both sides. This thread is going to go beserk come October and November.

 

[Zenien]

I already have a 360 (from launch) but I was also planning on getting a PS3 (I will, for sure but towards the end of Summer).
I read that the first Blu-Ray players, including the PS3 dont support some features that the HD-DVD, players, do. The in-movie experience or something. Will this be "fixed"? And I assume when they "fix" this you'll be able to upgrade the firmware of your PS3 BR drive online, right?

I dont think this is a problem but I was just wondering.

The PS3 should have no problem using the BR-J features since it has audio video decoders up the ying yang and already exceeds the ram and storage requirements.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I already have a 360 (from launch) but I was also planning on getting a PS3 (I will, for sure but towards the end of Summer).
I read that the first Blu-Ray players, including the PS3 dont support some features that the HD-DVD, players, do. The in-movie experience or something. Will this be "fixed"? And I assume when they "fix" this you'll be able to upgrade the firmware of your PS3 BR drive online, right?

I dont think this is a problem but I was just wondering.

The in-movie experience that Warner Bros. does will be fixed and it's why Batman Begins and the Matrix aren't on blu-ray yet. Once it is, expect a lot of Warner Bros titles to be announced for blu-ray (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, the Matrix Trilogy) and future Warner Bros. high def titles from their back catalogue to come out exactly at the same time as the HD-DVD version (like the Harry Potter movies).

 

[Dark_Lord]

Thanks for the replies. I'll be getting a PS3 either August or September...My TV isnt full HD though (its HD Ready, 720p/1080i) but still...

 

[Zenien]

THings still look awesome on 720P don't worry.

 

[XtromaniaK]

The difference between 720 and 1080p is really miniscule, so it shouldn't bother you all that much. That's one of the reasons I opted for a cheaper 720p HDTV instead of an "out-the-ass" 1080p set.