The Format War

[hippy fascist]

pwned!

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

40% of American PS3 owners: This thing has Blu-ray?

Reports flies in the face of BD take up boasts
by Amy-Mae Elliott

9 August 2007 - An amusing report from the NPD Group, the "Next Gen Functionality & Usage" study suggests that 40% of PlayStation 3 owners were not aware the console could play Blu-ray discs.

Further research showed that 50% of those that did know about the feature didn't use the console for watching movies.

Adding salt to the HD-capable wound, only 50% of those PS3-ers polled knew that their machine was even capable of high-def graphics.

It might console Sony's marketing department to know that the figure for Xbox 360 owner's knowledge of that console HD-capabilities came in at an even lower 30%.

Other notable results from the report mentioned lack of awareness about downloadable content from both Xbox 360| PS3'>Xbox 360 - but especially - PS3 owners.

The Blu-ray Group suggested earlier this year, with figures to back up the claim, that the PS3's Blu-ray playing abilities was helping them win the format war.

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/9289/10313/NPR-Report-PS3-Blu-ray-ignorance.phtml

 

[KALEL114]

Is there a direct link to the Amazon Holiday preview? I can't find it.

 

[imdaly]

Further proof that the general consumer public, as a whole, is full of clueless idiots.

 

[Zenien]

If there's one thing I can't stand in life it's stupid people. Educate yourself you morons.

 

[hippy fascist]

were they not tipped off by the five free blu rays offer

 

[imdaly]

I think you are stretching it a bit. How about on the back of that box it says in big letters, PLAYER MUST BE 1.1 COMPLIANT.

And let me ask you something. You work at Circuit City, a customer comes in and says that his disc is not working properly. You would not ask him what it isn't doing right? I think you would be able to tell him/her about the 1.1 compliance and save him from some trouble and switching out discs. Right? Also if I am aconsumer in the market for an upgrade, do you think I will not do a little research or at least ask someone before dropping $500.00 plus? Please.

40% of American PS3 owners: This thing has Blu-ray?

Reports flies in the face of BD take up boasts
by Amy-Mae Elliott

9 August 2007 - An amusing report from the NPD Group, the "Next Gen Functionality & Usage" study suggests that 40% of PlayStation 3 owners were not aware the console could play Blu-ray discs.

Further research showed that 50% of those that did know about the feature didn't use the console for watching movies.

Adding salt to the HD-capable wound, only 50% of those PS3-ers polled knew that their machine was even capable of high-def graphics.

It might console Sony's marketing department to know that the figure for Xbox 360 owner's knowledge of that console HD-capabilities came in at an even lower 30%.

Other notable results from the report mentioned lack of awareness about downloadable content from both Xbox 360| PS3'>Xbox 360 - but especially - PS3 owners.

The Blu-ray Group suggested earlier this year, with figures to back up the claim, that the PS3's Blu-ray playing abilities was helping them win the format war.

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/9289/10313/NPR-Report-PS3-Blu-ray-ignorance.phtml

NOW do you see what I mean, KALEL??

 

[imdaly]

Ritek readies 2x HD DVD-R media
August 9, 2007

Granted, the majority of you probably haven't forked out just yet for a pricey HD DVD burner, but just in case you've got one in mind for the future, Ritek is readying the equally expensive media you'll have to pick up. According to DigiTimes, Ritek has "secured certification for its blank 2x HD DVD-R" discs, which would enable write speeds double that of its existing media. Additionally, the firm has reportedly obtained certification for blank BD-R discs as well, and while it's certainly late to that party, we'll take all the competition we can get.

Source

I can't wait to be able to create my own HD DVDs (though I'll have to, cause they'll be expensive for a good while) and not have to worry about the ridiculous DRM that Sony has forced on Blu-ray recordables if I want to put interactive menus and such on them.

 

[Downhere]

Is there a direct link to the Amazon Holiday preview? I can't find it.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/tech/9037077.html


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And I don't know if anyone posted this but...

ONKYO Introduces Its First HD DVD Player, Including High-Bit-Rate and Lossless Audio Streaming via HDMI 1.3a

UPPER SADDLE RIVER, NJ (8/9/07) – ONKYO USA has announced the launch of its first HD-DVD player, the DV-HD805. This player has been introduced to realize the potential of high-definition HD DVD content. It is also one of the first HD DVD players to take advantage of high-bit-rate audio streaming via HDMI version 1.3a. The DV-HD805 will be available in the fall of 2007.

The DV-HD805 is designed to partner with Onkyo's 2007 A/V receiver line-up. Both the HD DVD player and the A/V receivers feature HDMI version 1.3a connections, making the combination of these components the perfect platform for high-definition 1080p video images. It also nicely complements Onkyo’s A/V receivers by streaming of the new lossless surround sound formats, Dolby® TrueHD and DTS®-HD Master Audio, as well as two "lossy" formats, Dolby® Digital Plus and DTS®-HD High Resolution Audio.

The Onkyo DV-HD805 has the capability to support different frame rates, including playback at 24 frames per second, which is the native frame rate of the original sources for most HD content. This ensures that the user will be able to experience the playback of films recorded to HD DVD with the smoothest, most stable reproduction possible.

HDMI version 1.3a allows the DV-HD805 to offer the full potential of high-definition 1080p video (the native resolution of HD DVD discs). Furthermore, HDMI version 1.3a enables Deep Color™ technology to improve color tones and achieve finer color gradation. Also, when connected with the new Onkyo HDMI version 1.3a A/V receivers, the DV-HD805 is capable of high-bit-rate audio streaming output. Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio surround sound codecs enable bit-for-bit reproduction of the studio master meaning that this player is capable of the highest clarity and most advanced realism from movie soundtracks. It also has the capability to provide Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio bit stream data.

HD DVD specifications allow for the inclusion of web-enabled network connectivity to develop new and unique content such as additional materials and bonus features. In addition to downloading content, HD DVD users also have the ability to upload content and interact with providers, to participate in interactive polls for example. Compared to other media formats, HD DVD is advanced in this capacity. The DV-HD805 includes an Ethernet port to allow users access to these capabilities, as well as enable the user to easily download any future firmware updates.

Recognized as the leading video processing technology in the home theater industry, the DV-HD805's onboard HQV Reon VX video processing chipset provides exceptionally precise video scaling (to 720p, 1080i or 1080p). When used with the standard-definition DVD format, HQV Reon VX enables viewers to enjoy superior video quality at the native resolution of the connected high-definition display. HQV Reon VX processing also eliminates or substantially reduces video noise for improved video reproduction.

The DV-HD805 will be available in the fall of 2007 at a suggested retail price of $899.

Onkyo, which takes its name from the Japanese "On" meaning 'sound' and "Kyo" meaning 'harmony,' has been producing precision audio components for over a half-century. The company's philosophy is to deliver products that are superbly designed and built to a consistently outstanding standard of excellence. Today, Onkyo is at the forefront of the home theater and digital revolutions. For more information about this and other fine Onkyo products, visit www.onkyousa.com or call 800-229-1687.

 

[Zenien]

I wonder, once BR gets those features up to snuff, what will their excuses be. Not that the market at large or even the High def market is showing that they care much for the HD-DVD PiP features.

Universal's Kornblau Wants Format War to Continue
Comments: 16

There's no longer any question as to who's keeping the hi-def format war alive, or why.
It's Universal Studios and the top home entertainment exec, by his own admission.

I had been hearing over the last few days that various Blu-ray Disc manufacturers have been offering Universal plenty of incentives to join the parade but that Universal was walking away from the table every time without any reasonable objection.
Now we know why.

Universal president Craig Kornblau told me this week that the studio actually wants the format war to continue.
He also said Universal is getting financial incentives to create exclusive HD DVD features such as the Xbox Live component for the upcoming "Heroes" release.
"I’m not going to tell you that we don’t cut financial deals with people every day," he says.

But he has rationale for all of the above.
Kornblau says Universal does the same as every other studio in cutting deals to utilize another company's technologies and services.

But Kornblau says Universal's position is not driven by deals but by a long-term and consumer-focused strategy that is supported by Universal parent NBC and corporate owner GE. Universal never initially wanted a war, he says, which is why the studio made a decision years ago to back only one format.

Of course, that's the same position taken by Disney as well as Fox; the only difference being they individually chose the opposing format for a number of their own reasons, not the least of which is that each independently told me from the beginning that they believe that Blu-ray will ultimately offer the most consumer satisfaction and that the technology represents a full step forward in technology -- not a half-step -- to ensure the longest-term value for consumers. And, most importantly to Fox from the outset and now others as well, an extra layer of protection against piracy.

However, now that the market has evolved as it has, Kornblau says the hi-def format war has been "the very best thing that ever happened for consumers, retailers, and, frankly, studios" -- everyone except consumer electronics manufacturers -- because it has driven prices down further and far more quickly than would have been the case if there had been only one format in the market. (CE manufacturers are no small exception since they were among the primary groups driving the introduction of hi-def discs in order to restore the profit into their business that long ago evaporated with $49 DVD players from China. The format war has already forced some manufacturers to start subsidizing their hi-def players.)
Without the format war, Kornblau believes that even after more than a year in the market, the lowest-priced players would still be priced out of reach of most consumers at more than $1,000 and they would only drop to $800 or $900 over the next year or two.

Of course, that's impossible to know for sure and it's a bit of a faulty premise if you consider that PlayStation 3's, which play Blu-ray Discs and are by far the top-selling hi-def disc player of either format, were introduced last November at $600. As for the cause and rate of price declines in players, 10 years ago the cost of DVD players dropped about 20% in the first year and another 30% in the second year without any format war, according to "CE Historical" at the Consumer Electronics Assoc. web site www.ce.org.

With Universal the only holdout in sticking with HD DVD exclusively, Kornblau reluctantly concedes that HD DVD's position is just fragile enough that if Universal decided to release in Blu-ray now, it would have a serious, if not life-threatening impact on the future of HD DVD. So in addition to weighing how his decision will impact the studio, he now must also factor in the potential demise of the HD DVD format entirely if Universal would opt to release its movies in Blu-ray.

For now, that's not something Kornblau is willing to risk. He says Universal chose HD DVD initially because it offered the least expensive hardware and software manufacturing costs and immediate across-the-board interactivity and connectivity in all HD DVD players. "To this date, nothing's changed," he suggests.

Kornblau believes interactive and connected features are essential for the success of any hi-def disc platform, especially as more and more consumers realize that they can buy a DVD player for $129 that upconverts their DVDs to near-hi-def quality.

"DVD would not have grown to a $16 billion market if all we did was put movies on a disc," he said. Enhanced features are even more critical for the success of hi-def discs, which do not offer as many revolutionary distinctions from DVD as did DVD over VHS.

In fact, Kornblau says the lack of comparable interactivity and connectivity in Blu-ray as compared with HD DVD at this point is why Universal refuses to go the same route as Warner and Paramount in releasing in both formats but being forced to offer less interactive and connected features on the Blu-ray versions, such as Warner's new "300."

Hmmm, with the notable exception of the "U-Control" interactive feature that Universal introduced on several titles last year, the studio hasn't exactly been blazing many trails of innovation with content that couldn't be delivered on Blu-ray Discs and even DVDs in many cases. Warner has been leading that charge with web-enabled features introduced on "Blood Diamond" and continuing through last week's "300." After about a year-and-a-half in the market, Universal's first web-enabled feature will come courtesy of Microsoft on the Aug. 28 release of "Heroes."

And, not for nothing, but early results of "300," at a record 250,000 copies sold in the first week, show that at least 65% of those sales went to Blu-ray. Some expected the numbers to skew even further in favor of Blu-ray given it's appeal to the PlayStation 3 demographic.

Meanwhile Blu-ray promises even more dynamic connectivity features with its new "BD Live" component in Blu-ray players and titles coming as early as this fall, as well as further enhancements to its "BD-J" interactive technology.

Kornblau, who was kind enough to speak with me very frankly in the midst of a hectic time, also conceded that Universal could not have picked a worse time to be carrying the torch for HD DVD in terms of strong releases to help support its position and the platform.
Although Kornblau referred to his studio's weak movies over the past 9 months, Universal's release slate has been pretty dismal for the last several years. The studio had only two theatrical films in the top 30 at the domestic box-office in 2005 and it's lone top 20 title last year was 18th-ranked "The Break-Up," with $119 million, according to Boxofficemojo.com. After suffering through the first six months of this year with its biggest hits being the sleeper romantic comedy "Knocked Up" and the financial disaster "Evan Almighty," Universal is finally enjoying a solid franchise hit with last weekend's "The Bourne Ultimatum" opening with $69 million.
Kornblau sees all that as setting up a big fourth-quarter for his studio on the home entertainment and hi-def fronts, starting with "Heroes," followed by four $100 million-plus titles, "Knocked Up," "Evan Almighty," "I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry" ($92 million after 3 weeks), and "Bourne Ultimatum."

But that's pretty much the highlight for the rest of the year as far as programs available exclusively on HD DVD.
Almost everything else will be on Blu-ray, either exclusively or along with HD DVD, including everything from Steven Spielberg's first hi-def disc release, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," exclusively on Blu-ray, to most of the top-grossing movies of the year, such as "Spider-Man 3," "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End" (both only on Blu-ray) "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" (not announced as yet); "300," "Blades of Glory," "Ratatouille," and "Wild Hogs" (the latter two only on Blu-ray). And as soon as Fox rejoins the BD party with its MGM distribution in tow -- which everyone hopes will be soon -- that studio could release its trio of summer hits exclusively on Blu-ray, "The Simpsons Movie," "Live Free or Die Hard," and "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer."

Even if, for the sake of argument, you go along with Universal's belief that the format war is driving prices down more quickly, Kornblau admits that there is only a limited window of time for which this situation can be interpreted as beneficial for consumers, retailers, and studios. He says that window will start to close when players drop to a price of $200 and consumers start making their choice, which is what will guide Universal's ultimate course.

So that’s the story. Universal did not want the format war and Kornblau believes the studio did not initiate the war, but he and the studio are now intentionally and strategically keeping the format war alive for what they believe is for the good of the consumer, retailers and studios while awaiting a clear consumer preference for Blu-ray or HD DVD once prices drop to $200. Universal chose HD DVD because costs were lower and it had about a year’s head-start on some interactive features and web connectivity.

Okay, Kornblau has always been straight with me so I have no reason to believe he doesn’t truly believe most, if not all of that.

But if consumers are already showing a 2-1 Blu-ray preference for every movie released in both formats months before Blu-ray introduces its more sophisticated web-connected and interactive features and even while HD DVD is riding a low-price advantage of about $150 - $200, it’s difficult to envision consumers becoming less interested in Blu-ray when all those features debut amid a flurry of the year’s biggest movies exclusively on Blu-ray.

When that point comes, on behalf of those of us who don’t believe that prolonging the format war is a good thing, I hope that Kornblau and Universal are quick to respond to the will of consumers and end this war.

In the meantime, I guess those customers who are already choosing Blu-ray will have to live without hi-def versions of "Knocked Up," "Evan Almighty" and "I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry" for awhile.

 

[hippy fascist]

been posted already and it's from a blu ray blog funded by sony. It's hack marketing and nothing more

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

I still don't understand the 300 situation. Despite being touted as the superior version in comparison to the Blu-Ray version it still outsold by a large margin.

 

[Downhere]

I still don't understand the 300 situation. Despite being touted as the superior version in comparison to the Blu-Ray version it still outsold by a large margin.

Hmm, well, considering there are over 1.5 million BR capable players out there what did you expect? I for one didn't expect the margin to change. What is surprising though is that from the beginning of the year the margin was overall 2:1 and now it is still 2:1, with more and more BR capable players being bought. To me that is quite telling. I would have expected the margin to widen but that hasn't happened. So now we have 300, and the margin is the same. And also, was it really outsold by a "large" margin, it's still basically 2:1 so nothing has changed. I think HD DVD has done well considering it has around 330,000 players out there.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

So more people are buying into Blu-Ray. Why do you think that HD DVD is going to win the format war again?

 

[imdaly]

More people are buying into PS3s than they are Blu-ray or HD DVD right now. They're just buying BD discs with their extra money while they're waiting for some actual PS3 games to come around.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

More people are buying into PS3s than they are Blu-ray or HD DVD right now. They're just buying BD discs with their extra money while they're waiting for some actual PS3 games to come around.

But I mean doesn't the recent article I posted sort of negate that theory? A lot of people were buying the PS3 regardless if it had Blu-Ray capability. And with the recent deal on the 360 add-on I am surprised 300 still didn't do as good.

 

[Downhere]

So more people are buying into Blu-Ray. Why do you think that HD DVD is going to win the format war again?

More people are buying the PS3, but what is telling is that the ratio is still 2:1 in software sales. The PS3 will carry BR only so far, stand alone players will have to come into play at some time. With current prices the way they are HD DVD has the edge in that area and I am sure Toshiba will be aggressive this holiday season in regards to pricing (I'm thinking the A3 could sell for $200 during the last 5 weeks of the holiday season). When people go to look for a High Def player, they are going to see BR with $499 players (or possibly $399 if Sony wants to sell more for the holidays) compared to HD DVD which will be half the price and have a fully finalized spec. Toshiba could really gain some market share this holiday season if they price things right. The game is not over yet as things are just heating up.

 

[Downhere]

But I mean doesn't the recent article I posted sort of negate that theory? A lot of people were buying the PS3 regardless if it had Blu-Ray capability. And with the recent deal on the 360 add-on I am surprised 300 still didn't do as good.

Those articles about how many people are using the PS3 for BR films should be taken with a grain of salt. The only way to know for sure is to ask every PS3 owner. This is the problem with the PS3 having this capability. It can be spun either way without any clear evidence to support those assumptions. Sony can spin it in a way that makes it good for them, that they have the biggest market share of all High Def players, or when their sales ratio is only 2:1 they can say that only a small percentage of users use the PS3 for films. At least with the add-on and standalones you know people are using it for just films.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Haha wow. Well it is certainly interesting to hear your guys viewpoints on the subject. Seems like you always try to debate it both ways though. "Oh well the PS3 we don't really know how many people are using it for Blu-Ray" and "The reason it did so well on Blu-Ray is because the PS3 owners don't have much to play." I just don't get how both of those arguments work forgive me I guess I am a simpleton. Oh well the only thing that will decide is time my friends.

 

[Downhere]

Haha wow. Well it is certainly interesting to hear your guys viewpoints on the subject. Seems like you always try to debate it both ways though. "Oh well the PS3 we don't really know how many people are using it for Blu-Ray" and "The reason it did so well on Blu-Ray is because the PS3 owners don't have much to play." I just don't get how both of those arguments work forgive me I guess I am a simpleton. Oh well the only thing that will decide is time my friends.

Well, I have always said every PS3 counts and therefore anyone who touts Blu-ray's sales as being so much higher than HD DVD need to realize that there are about 5 times more players because of the PS3. In reality, BR should be beating HD DVD by a large margin but that still hasn't happened yet. It's still 2:1 for software even though players are at 5:1. I think HD DVD is doing pretty well against Sony's arsenal. But you are right, time will tell, time will tell.

 

[KALEL114]

NOW do you see what I mean, KALEL??

Today 10:56 PMDownhereQuote:
Originally Posted by RedIsNotBlue
But I mean doesn't the recent article I posted sort of negate that theory? A lot of people were buying the PS3 regardless if it had Blu-Ray capability. And with the recent deal on the 360 add-on I am surprised 300 still didn't do as good.

Those articles about how many people are using the PS3 for BR films should be taken with a grain of salt. The only way to know for sure is to ask every PS3 owner. This is the problem with the PS3 having this capability. It can be spun either way without any clear evidence to support those assumptions. Sony can spin it in a way that makes it good for them, that they have the biggest market share of all High Def players, or when their sales ratio is only 2:1 they can say that only a small percentage of users use the PS3 for films. At least with the add-on and standalones you know people are using it for just films.

Yeah. What he said. Either PS3 counts in these debates or it doesn't. The thing is both sides (HDDVD and Bluray) use the PS3 in their arguments. HDVD supporters like to say "Bluray is only selling 2:1 with 1.5 million players?" to support the notion that HDDVD is holding it's own with only 300,000 SA. Bluray supporters use the PS3 by saying that "Bluray is in more homes and so the war is practicly already won." The article that was posted negates the theory that it's 1.5 million to 300,000. So, when we have a discussion/debate about who is winning, which way do you want to go? It seems that the article points to the PS3 as small player in the "format war". I still stand by the ideal that the average consumer is smarter than a lot of people give them credit for. Especially in the age of the internet.

 

[KALEL114]

Haha wow. Well it is certainly interesting to hear your guys viewpoints on the subject. Seems like you always try to debate it both ways though. "Oh well the PS3 we don't really know how many people are using it for Blu-Ray" and "The reason it did so well on Blu-Ray is because the PS3 owners don't have much to play." I just don't get how both of those arguments work forgive me I guess I am a simpleton. Oh well the only thing that will decide is time my friends.

Indeed.

 

[Zenien]

Given the impact we know that the PS3 has had, and the estimates sales of stand alone players that each side has in America, it's safe to say that a minority of people with PS3 units are using them as BR players, but those people make up a huge number within the High Def Market itself.

The argument that "HD-DVD is holding it's own and only being outsold 2 to 1 versus 1.5 million Blu Ray players!" is ******ed.

You can't count every one of those 1.5 million BR players in America as a dedicated player because not everyone buying a PS3 will be using it as a Blu Ray player, period. The only people who refuse to acknowledge this seem to be HD-DVD diehards.

The pro BR argument of saying "The war is over with 1.5 million players in homes!" is ******ed as well...

 

[KALEL114]

Given the impact we know that the PS3 has had, and the estimates sales of stand alone players that each side has in America, it's safe to say that a minority of people with PS3 units are using them as BR players, but those people make up a huge number within the High Def Market itself.

The arguement that "HD-DVD is holding it's own and only being outsold 2 to 1 versus 1.5 million Blu Ray players!" is ******ed. You can't count every one of those 1.5 million BR players in America as a dedicated player and the only people who refuse to aknowledge this seem to be HD-DVD diehards.

The pro BR argument of saying "The way i over with 1.5 million players in homes!" is ******ed as well...

Exactly. Well said.

 

[Downhere]

Given the impact we know that the PS3 has had, and the estimates sales of stand alone players that each side has in America, it's safe to say that a minority of people with PS3 units are using them as BR players, but those people make up a huge number within the High Def Market itself.

The arguement that "HD-DVD is holding it's own and only being outsold 2 to 1 versus 1.5 million Blu Ray players!" is ******ed. You can't count every one of those 1.5 million BR players in America as a dedicated player and the only people who refuse to aknowledge this seem to be HD-DVD diehards.

The pro BR argument of saying "The way i over with 1.5 million players in homes!" is ******ed as well...

What is interesting is that Sony counts every PS3 as a BR player sold. There are many pro BR fans who continuously tout BR has won because it has over 1.5 million players on the market. To me, every PS3 is a BR player sold because it has the capability to play BR movies. Like I said earlier, the problem with having this technology in the PS3 is the fact that fans on both sides can twist the information when it is most convenient for their point of view.