The Good, The Bad, and The Official Western Thread

[gwynplaine]

i loved the bit where he thought he was invisible, and made it through the carnage, he was a cool, wise old injun, he could hit out with the wise, and then be completely clueless, sometimes he didn't know what he was doing, but sometimes he did, lol i think i am starting to sound like him. i am trying to place what else i have seen that actor in, but my mind is a blank right now.

I love that bit too. Great Movie.
Maybe you've seen Chief Dan Georges in The Outlaw Josey Wales where he plays the old Indian Chief (what else?) who befriends Josey Wales.
Will Sampson (Chief in One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest) can also be seen in Josey Wales.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I just watchedOnce Upon A Time In The West for the first time the other day. Easily as good as TG, TB, & TU.

It's pretty amazing in that movie how he can make every zoomed in closeup of wrinkly greasy faced 40/50 year old men look like something you would want to hang on your wall.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I love that bit too. Great Movie.
Maybe you've seen Chief Dan Georges in The Outlaw Josey Wales where he plays the old Indian Chief (what else?) who befriends Josey Wales.
Will Sampson (Chief in One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest) can also be seen in Josey Wales.

yeah, i have seen josey wales so it could have been that , cheers, i haven't seen it in a v long time though.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It's pretty amazing in that movie how he can make every zoomed in closeup of wrinkly greasy faced 40/50 year old men look like something you would want to hang on your wall.

 

[gwynplaine]

Just re-watched the original True Grit. It's actually very similar and probably almost as good as the Coen bros' remake. They could have improved on it more. Oh and Robert Duvall is better than Barry Pepper (who is very good too).

 

[gwynplaine]

Just watched "Stagecoach" for the first time. Good film. Specially considering it was made in 1939. I can see why Wayne became such a big star. Great screen presence.
Next Up: "The Scalp Hunters". A Sidney Pollack film that I had never heard of before, starring the great Burt Lancaster.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Just watched "Stagecoach" for the first time. Good film. Specially considering it was made in 1939. I can see why Wayne became such a big star. Great screen presence.
Next Up: "The Scalp Hunters". A Sidney Pollack film that I had never heard of before, starring the great Burt Lancaster.

Stagecoach is a great movie. I caught it for the first time a few weeks ago, and despite being run of the mill by today's standards, the energy and excitement make it quite the experience. I just wish stores by me carried the Criterion DVD and not just the blu-ray.

Finally found Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid on DVD the other day. I started watching the 1988 Turner Preview version and had to turn it off because the visual quality was pretty bad and the audio was awful. It's like they just slapped it onto the second disc without a care in the world. While the 2005 Special Edition version looks and sounds totally better, it's an edit made by people assuming the choices Peckinpah would have made and I've read it's it's pretty bad(as I only watched the Slim Pickens death scene in this version).

Gwynplaine, what'd you think of Monte Walsh? It's easily one of the top 5 best Lee Marvin performances, in my opinion.

 

[gwynplaine]

Stagecoach is a great movie. I caught it for the first time a few weeks ago, and despite being run of the mill by today's standards, the energy and excitement make it quite the experience. I just wish stores by me carried the Criterion DVD and not just the blu-ray.

Finally found Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid on DVD the other day. I started watching the 1988 Turner Preview version and had to turn it off because the visual quality was pretty bad and the audio was awful. It's like they just slapped it onto the second disc without a care in the world. While the 2005 Special Edition version looks and sounds totally better, it's an edit made by people assuming the choices Peckinpah would have made and I've read it's it's pretty bad(as I only watched the Slim Pickens death scene in this version).

Gwynplaine, what'd you think of Monte Walsh? It's easily one of the top 5 best Lee Marvin performances, in my opinion.

As for Monte Walsh, I agree 100%.
Have you seen The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? Marvin is so good in it too. A perfect foe for Wayne and a great villain in general.
Also if you haven't seen it I really recommend Peckinpah's Ride The High Country. One of my favorite westerns and a total precursor to Unforgiven, with two legendary western stars Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott (and of course the great Warren Oates.)

 

[CrimsonMist]

As for Monte Walsh, I agree 100%.
Have you seen The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? Marvin is so good in it too. A perfect foe for Wayne and a great villain in general.

I have, but it's been a while. I may put that on tonight, time permitting. I love Marvin and Wayne together in Donovan's Reef...such a funny movie.

 

[gwynplaine]

I have, but it's been a while. I may put that on tonight, time permitting. I love Marvin and Wayne together in Donovan's Reef...such a funny movie.

 

[gwynplaine]

As for Monte Walsh, I agree 100%.
Have you seen The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? Marvin is so good in it too. A perfect foe for Wayne and a great villain in general.
Also if you haven't seen it I really recommend Peckinpah's Ride The High Country. One of my favorite westerns and a total precursor to Unforgiven, with two legendary western stars Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott (and of course the great Warren Oates.)

At CrimsonMist, I didn't know if you saw that last part of my post that I added later on.
Anyway, it's one of the lesser known Peckinpah's Westerns and films in general and just as good as the rest of his filmo. One of those great "End of an Era" Westerns, like "Lonely are the Brave" or "Monte Walsh."

 

[gwynplaine]

I wonder if the success of the True Grit is going to bring more Westerns Remakes.
Just watched "Vera Cruz" again, great Western (And maybe it could actually be a good remake with actors like Clooney and Di Caprio for example.)
Also saw "The Naked Spur" for the first time and really liked it. I discovered a new facet of James Stewart and I'm looking forward to watching the other westerns he did with Anthony Mann.

 

[CrimsonMist]

At CrimsonMist, I didn't know if you saw that last part of my post that I added later on.
Anyway, it's one of the lesser known Peckinpah's Westerns and films in general and just as good as the rest of his filmo. One of those great "End of an Era" Westerns, like "Lonely are the Brave" or "Monte Walsh."

Sorry for the delay. I didn't see your update.

But I have not yet seen Ride The High Country but it was on Turner Classic Movies the other night and I managed to get it on DVR. So it's waiting for me.

I watched Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid the other night though. I watched the controversial 2005 re-edit though. It was alright. My main reason for watching that version was because of how poor the 1988 Turner Preview cut was in terms of visual and audio quality. But I did watch the '88 cut's ending and prefer it greatly to the re-edit.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I wonder if the success of the True Grit is going to bring more Westerns Remakes.
Just watched "Vera Cruz" again, great Western (And maybe it could actually be a good remake with actors like Clooney and Di Caprio for example.)
Also saw "The Naked Spur" for the first time and really liked it. I discovered a new facet of James Stewart and I'm looking forward to watching the other westerns he did with Anthony Mann.

i dont think we need more western remakes, but i hope it spurs more westerns in general. between true grit, rango, and cowboys and aliens we could be on the verge of a western revival. which would be the best!

 

[Secret Fawful]

A great western I saw the other day that I don't think was mentioned here is Little Big Man with Dustin Hoffman. It's a fictional, satirical Revisionist western about a man adapted and raised by the Cheyenne, who experiences all sorts of bizarre crazy events in American history. It's a great movie. I really recommend it.

As far as my favorite, that would really have to go to The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Tuco just wins for me over any of the characters in Once Upon A Time in the West, although I REALLY love that movie as well. In fact, to me, Tuco is a much different character than any other Leone ever used in a Western. I really love his style, and Morricone is my favorite composer.

 

[gwynplaine]

Stagecoach is a great movie. I caught it for the first time a few weeks ago, and despite being run of the mill by today's standards, the energy and excitement make it quite the experience. I just wish stores by me carried the Criterion DVD and not just the blu-ray.

Finally found Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid on DVD the other day. I started watching the 1988 Turner Preview version and had to turn it off because the visual quality was pretty bad and the audio was awful. It's like they just slapped it onto the second disc without a care in the world. While the 2005 Special Edition version looks and sounds totally better, it's an edit made by people assuming the choices Peckinpah would have made and I've read it's it's pretty bad(as I only watched the Slim Pickens death scene in this version).

Gwynplaine, what'd you think of Monte Walsh? It's easily one of the top 5 best Lee Marvin performances, in my opinion.

Just watched Monte Walsh again. I think it might actually be Marvin's greatest performance. Very powerful and very moving and a superb turn by the late, great Jack Palance. I love their friendship. It reminded that unfortunately we don't really have actors like Palance and Marvin anymore these days.

 

[gwynplaine]

A great western I saw the other day that I don't think was mentioned here is Little Big Man with Dustin Hoffman. It's a fictional, satirical Revisionist western about a man adapted and raised by the Cheyenne, who experiences all sorts of bizarre crazy events in American history. It's a great movie. I really recommend it.

As far as my favorite, that would really have to go to The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Tuco just wins for me over any of the characters in Once Upon A Time in the West, although I REALLY love that movie as well. In fact, to me, Tuco is a much different character than any other Leone ever used in a Western. I really love his style, and Morricone is my favorite composer.

It's been mentioned and it is great
Among numerous other things in the film, I also really liked Hoffman's aged make-up in it (I think it was done by the legendary Dick Smith who also did my other favorite "aging process" in a movie: Salieri in "Amadeus". Your avvyt

 

[C. Lee]

Just watched "Stagecoach" for the first time. Good film. Specially considering it was made in 1939. I can see why Wayne became such a big star. Great screen presence.
Next Up: "The Scalp Hunters". A Sidney Pollack film that I had never heard of before, starring the great Burt Lancaster.

Considering that the western had almost been exclusively used for kiddie fare up until then, 1939's STAGECOACH is a truelly outstanding movie. The theatrical remake in the 60's had some good moments, but it just didn't connect with the audience the way the original did. It's been a while since I saw SCALPHUNTERS, but I remember it as being an interesting romp. It's hard to go wrong with Lancaster and I remember Ossie Davis giving a great performance as usual too.

Finally found Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid on DVD the other day. I started watching the 1988 Turner Preview version and had to turn it off because the visual quality was pretty bad and the audio was awful. It's like they just slapped it onto the second disc without a care in the world. While the 2005 Special Edition version looks and sounds totally better, it's an edit made by people assuming the choices Peckinpah would have made and I've read it's it's pretty bad(as I only watched the Slim Pickens death scene in this version).

Gwynplaine, what'd you think of Monte Walsh? It's easily one of the top 5 best Lee Marvin performances, in my opinion.

I wasn't real fond of some of the changes made in PAT GARRETT either. The scene with Slim Pickens and the song LORD TAKE THIS BADGE OFF OF ME was always a major emotional scene...the reediting took a lot of that powere away.

Monte Walsh is one of those overlooked movies that had fantastic performances from Marvin and Palance.

As for Monte Walsh, I agree 100%.
Have you seen The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? Marvin is so good in it too. A perfect foe for Wayne and a great villain in general.
Also if you haven't seen it I really recommend Peckinpah's Ride The High Country. One of my favorite westerns and a total precursor to Unforgiven, with two legendary western stars Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott (and of course the great Warren Oates.)

Those are another couple of great must sees for people who want to see well done westerns.

I wonder if the success of the True Grit is going to bring more Westerns Remakes.
Just watched "Vera Cruz" again, great Western (And maybe it could actually be a good remake with actors like Clooney and Di Caprio for example.)
Also saw "The Naked Spur" for the first time and really liked it. I discovered a new facet of James Stewart and I'm looking forward to watching the other westerns he did with Anthony Mann.

Not sure if it will lead to more remakes of westerns...but I hope it leads to more westerns overall.

A few more Stewart westerns to look for are WINCHESTER 73, BEND OF THE RIVER, THE RARE BREED, and THE FAR COUNTRY.

 

[gwynplaine]

Considering that the western had almost been exclusively used for kiddie fare up until then, 1939's STAGECOACH is a truelly outstanding movie. The theatrical remake in the 60's had some good moments, but it just didn't connect with the audience the way the original did. It's been a while since I saw SCALPHUNTERS, but I remember it as being an interesting romp. It's hard to go wrong with Lancaster and I remember Ossie Davis giving a great performance as usual too.

Monte Walsh is one of those overlooked movies that had fantastic performances from Marvin and Palance.
Those are another couple of great must sees for people who want to see well done westerns.

Not sure if it will lead to more remakes of westerns...but I hope it leads to more westerns overall.

A few more Stewart westerns to look for are WINCHESTER 73, BEND OF THE RIVER, THE RARE BREED, and THE FAR COUNTRY.

Thanks for the recommendations
The actor who played the alcoholic doctor in Stagecoach really deserved his best supporting actor Oscar imo. Superb ensemble cast in general.
And Ossie Davis was indeed great in The Scalphunters and so were Shelley Winters and Telly Savalas (and of course Lancaster.)

 

[CrimsonMist]

Just watched Monte Walsh again. I think it might actually be Marvin's greatest performance. Very powerful and very moving and a superb turn by the late, great Jack Palance. I love their friendship. It reminded that unfortunately we don't really have actors like Palance and Marvin anymore these days.

Not sure if I agree. While it's certainly one of Marvin's best, I think Point Blank may be his best. I just love how detached he was, and how machine-like he was. That he was able to pretty much shut just about everything except "pissed off mode" off was rather impressive. I'd put Point Blank and Monte Walsh back to back though. They represent the two extremes of one man.

And it does suck we don't have actors like Marvin and Palance anymore: cool, quiet guys who are imposing by their actions, and how they carry themselves, unlike the 80's action heroes who funnily enough seem to try too hard and are really loud and talkative.

The actor who played the alcoholic doctor in Stagecoach really deserved his best supporting actor Oscar imo. Superb ensemble cast in general.

The doctor was great. Them trying to sober him up to deliver the baby was such a great scene. As run of the mill by today's standards as it is, STAGE COACH is still a really great movie. It's just too bad that every store I've gone to only carry the blu-ray version of the Criterion Collection release.

I wasn't real fond of some of the changes made in PAT GARRETT either. The scene with Slim Pickens and the song LORD TAKE THIS BADGE OFF OF ME was always a major emotional scene...the reediting took a lot of that powere away.

I actually like how the re-edit through in Bob Dylan's vocals when they played Knockin' On Heaven's Door. As for the scene in general, I think out of context, it's a really powerful, emotional scene. In context with the rest of the film, it feels a little hollow as we know nothing about Slim Pickens' character or his relationship with his wife.

 

[Bruce Banner]

Just saw a cool 1972 Western with Jeff Bridges (I didn't even know he had done one before True Grit) called "Bad Company".

He was also in Wild Bill from 1995

 

[gwynplaine]

Not sure if I agree. While it's certainly one of Marvin's best, I think Point Blank may be his best. I just love how detached he was, and how machine-like he was. That he was able to pretty much shut just about everything except "pissed off mode" off was rather impressive. I'd put Point Blank and Monte Walsh back to back though. They represent the two extremes of one man.

And it does suck we don't have actors like Marvin and Palance anymore: cool, quiet guys who are imposing by their actions, and how they carry themselves, unlike the 80's action heroes who funnily enough seem to try too hard and are really loud and talkative.

Yeah, it's true he was awesome in Point Blank. But all the emotion he is able to subtly convey in Monte Walsh

Spoiler

When he seats on the "Countess" death bed or when he learns about his buddy's death

is spectacular as well. Great actor. Just saw him recently in Bad Day at Black Rock where he plays a more "conventional" bad guy, but he still is fantastic.
As for Palance, he is a great underrated actor imo. Among a lot other movies he did, one of my favorite of his is Kazan's "Panic in the Streets" where he goes from charming to menacing in the blink of an eye.

He was also in Wild Bill from 1995

Thanks. I didn't know that.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Wild Bill looked absolutely horrible. Gaudy and over the top as hell. It's as if Shumacher directed it while in B&R mode

 

[Bruce Banner]

Wild Bill looked absolutely horrible. Gaudy and over the top as hell. It's as if Shumacher directed it while in B&R mode

I agree, it definately wasn't something I rewatched.



While I am thinking of people from the old west. Which movie with Wyatt Earp as a character does everyone enjoy the most?

 

[gwynplaine]

Wild Bill looked absolutely horrible. Gaudy and over the top as hell. It's as if Shumacher directed it while in B&R mode

Thanks. I guess I won't be watching it then.