The Dark Knight The Gotham Aesthetic... Or Lack Thereof.

The city did seem a lot cleaner in TDK, but could that have been on purpose? I mean, hasn't Batman been doing a good job? We see from the very beginning that drug dealers are afraid to conduct business, the mob deals during the day, etc.

Hit the nail on the head. Let's not forget that films are very symbolic and Nolan's Gotham is symbolic of the cleaner, brighter Gotham that Batman and Gordon had helped bring about.

I think the next one (please God let there be a next one!!) will see a much darker, seedier Gotham than TDK. He's not a good guy any more in the eyes of the citizens or law enforcement.

I liked the bright, modern Gotham. It made me think that there really could be a Batman in our world. Most of the technology is there, all we need is some rich, hard b*st*rd to start kicking holes. No chance in the UK, he'd be done under Human Rights Legislation for infringing the rights of hardened criminals to ruin the lives of innocent civilians. :whatever:
 
You know what I meant...

Just because it was filmed on location doesn't mean that it was realistic. It may have had the physical accoutrements of a real city, but it had none of the personality or character of a real city. It was so fake at times that it may as well have been on a set.

Explain.
 


It was too clean and clinical. Look even downtown Manhattan has a hustle and bustle. Yes it's always better to film on real locations, but what I meant was that you need more than real buildings to make a scene feel real.

The Gotham of TDK had no soul and no character. It relied entirely on the people of GOtham.

In my view... Both the people of Gotham and the city itself are the major characters.
 
As mentioned before, it was Nolan's intention to de-clutter Gotham. Obviously you disagree with that, but you can't say he didn't achieve his goal.
 
As mentioned before, it was Nolan's intention to de-clutter Gotham. Obviously you disagree with that, but you can't say he didn't achieve his goal.

Completely agree. I just don't think a real city is "decluttered"

I mean, granted, BB's Gotham was a little messy. But at least it was Gotham.
 
We really didn't see a whole lotta Gotham other than Loeb's funeral, the bank, and the chase at night. It looked like in this film we mainly saw some of the more business central parts of town. But even the apartments near Loeb's funeral were a bit dingy, but aside from that I think Nolan was just trying to broaden Gotham's cityscape.
 
the only problem i had with BB was that the narrows looked too fake, either too cgi, or too obvious it was filmed in the studio
 
TDK's Gotham had a very distinct visual style. It wasn't dark and gritty in the literal sense but it was soaked in sharp, cold colours, giving it an unwelcoming/frigid impression. I thought it was a very effective and fairly refreshing take on it.

How many times can you do the whole dark alleyway covered in graffitti thing?
 
Sigh, another newbie-whining thread. Gotham looked a bit cleaner, that's it.
 
While I'm glad they went with something new, and especially in the Imax I loved all the wide city shots. But it was Chicago, not Gotham. There had to have been some way to declutter the city and still make it feel like a different place. The movie, I feel suffer did from a lack of Batman esqe aesthetic.

I really missed the Mansion and the Batcave, but like I said, it was also something different which I appreciate.

Hopefully though, if there is a third one (still can't believe there is no talk of one) that the Mansion will return. I feel you miss out on a lot of iconic Batman scenarios without it.
 
The gritty realism and grimy chic of Begins works best for me :yay:
 
I thought that a balance of TDK and Batman Begins would be ideal too, but if I had to outright choose between the two, I'd probably side with TDK.

There are flashes of BB in there. Gordon's house is the same by my view of it, you get a good look at it when they tell Mrs. Gordon that Gordon's dead, and Batman is pretty much perched where he was when he tells him that the "Storm's Coming" in the first movie.

I thought that Gotham looked silly in the previous movies, but I agree, it does need a bit of personality, a la Begins. At the same time, it needs to look realistic.
 
Gotham lacked any atmosphere. In BB the monorail, the CGI shots, the aerial views, the smoke clouds, etc gave it a nice feel. It felt realistic enough and atmospheric as well. Also, i didnt mind the elaborate monorail. It reminded me a lot of the STAS Metropolis but it was a good way of giving the city a comic book edge and style.

Now Gotham was empty, uncluttered, clean, realistic as if Chicago was Batman's city! And even though i have never been to America, i felt that some shots were from the suburbs. Like the hospital scene for example. Definitely not downtown.
Now, i dont want Burton's Gotham, but i dont want to see a gotham without skyscrapers, dirt and cluttering. Not only that, but by not giving us any familiar shots of the city, by removing (?) the monorail, by removing the yellow tint of BB, i felt no connection to it. I never felt like this was the same city, and worse, i didnt feel like this was Gotham, be it Nolan's or whatever. It felt like Heat with bats.

Also, the lack of aerial shots worsened our connection to the city. In BB we could get a sense of direction and location, but now, a car blows up. Where is this supposed to take place? I could get a grasp of the city in BB, but now we just got scenes in random suburbs of it.

You know, with DC following Marvel's example of introducing the major players and then making a joint movie, it would be good if Gotham kept the few comic book elements it had in Begins so that you could place superman in its skies. You just cant do that in TDK Gotham.
 
Gotham lacked any atmosphere. In BB the monorail, the CGI shots, the aerial views, the smoke clouds, etc gave it a nice feel. It felt realistic enough and atmospheric as well. Also, i didnt mind the elaborate monorail. It reminded me a lot of the STAS Metropolis but it was a good way of giving the city a comic book edge and style.

Now Gotham was empty, uncluttered, clean, realistic as if Chicago was Batman's city! And even though i have never been to America, i felt that some shots were from the suburbs. Like the hospital scene for example. Definitely not downtown.
Now, i dont want Burton's Gotham, but i dont want to see a gotham without skyscrapers, dirt and cluttering. Not only that, but by not giving us any familiar shots of the city, by removing (?) the monorail, by removing the yellow tint of BB, i felt no connection to it. I never felt like this was the same city, and worse, i didnt feel like this was Gotham, be it Nolan's or whatever. It felt like Heat with bats.

Also, the lack of aerial shots worsened our connection to the city. In BB we could get a sense of direction and location, but now, a car blows up. Where is this supposed to take place? I could get a grasp of the city in BB, but now we just got scenes in random suburbs of it.

You know, with DC following Marvel's example of introducing the major players and then making a joint movie, it would be good if Gotham kept the few comic book elements it had in Begins so that you could place superman in its skies. You just cant do that in TDK Gotham.

a lack of aeriel shots?

are you serious?
 
a lack of aeriel shots?

are you serious?
I mean we didnt get to see half of gotham from above like in begins. The aerial shots we got were very vague and uninformative about where in the city we were.

In BB gotham had a shape, now we didnt get to see more of it other than a cluster of buildings, none of which was CGI. We didnt get to see the majestic town centre with its monorail either. We just got a glimpse of it from the street level during the confrontation with the joker....pffft..

I wish Nolan had given us those kinds of shots again and some more comic book atmosphere. When the joker says the epic "we are destined to be doing this forever" i didnt feel so connected as i should have been, because it didnt feel like this movie was about Batman, it felt like it was Heat 2! Maybe the yellow tint wasnt that bad after all. He just had to water it down a bit.
 
So...you were the one who didn´t like the yellow tint?
I liked it just fine. It gave a great atmosphere to the city. I never really complained about it. Maybe it needed some watering down.

But the thing is that Metropolis is NY+10 in shine and tech, while Gotham is NY-10 in crime, darkness, cluttering, litter. Ok this is really a bad explanation but you get my point. The thing is that i didnt see that -10 in TDK. I didnt see anything special with that city either. It was just a city.


That reminds me: Did Batman jump from the same tower Lau was in? Cause one time i thought they were seperate and the other it seemed that the towers had the same roof so i got confused.
 
Just came upon an article on an architecture blog about the design of Gotham in TDK. Let's see what someone actually versed in architecture thinks:

Batman’s Gotham City is a dystopian mirror image of New York. In both Frank Miller’s comic book and the earlier films of Tim Burton, Gotham is appropriately Gothic; a steaming, creaking metropolis full of dead- tech. It is a retro-futurist nightmare, an outlandish conflation of Hugh Ferris meets Alien.

So what to make of Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight, which situates Batman explicitly in the contemporary city? The opening shots swoop through Gotham's towers, but they are familiar corporate skyscrapers, less extraordinary than the ones currently going up in the Middle East.

In both The Dark Knight and Nolan's earlier film Batman Begins, there are still elements of the Gothic lurking in Batman's cyber punk style costume or his monstrous Bat Mobile. And, with his cracking and peeling makeup, The Joker looks like a recently dug up version of The Cure’s Robert Smith. But this is where the visual similarities with recent incarnations end.

According to DC comics' fictional narrative of Gotham, the city is redesigned at one stage by Superman villain Lex Luther. Luther, showing a Modernist streak when it comes to urban planning, replaced the Art Nouveou and Art Deco skyscrapers with glass and steel ones. It is this Gotham that is evoked in the Dark Knight. In fact, Nolan's Gotham City is a digitally enhanced Chicago and not New York at all.

Chicago is the city of the mob and of Mies Van Der Rohe, a potent mix of the clean cut and the corrupt. In the Dark Knight, Bruce Wayne lives in a penthouse apartment rather than the gothic Wayne Manor, and there is no Bat Cave. Instead, Batman works out of a fabulous space that with its vast backlit suspended ceiling and concrete walls is a cross between a corporate office and a contemporary art gallery.

The architecture throughout is clean-cut and corporate. The city may not be exactly friendly, but it is familiar, no longer anything to be scared of. What does have the capacity to scare us though is that this carefully ordered world might succumb to anarchy. Far from representing the city itself as chaotic, The Dark Knight plays on our fear that chaos could come to visit. And in this sense the film can be seen as either hopelessly reactionary, preaching a Bush era fear of so-called terrorist states, or as something more complex and ambiguous.

In The Dark Knight, it is the ordinariness of Gotham City that is meant to terrify us. Here, Gotham represents a well ordered city that could easily be reduced to smouldering rubble. The city in the Dark Knight may look familiar but the gothic darkness hasn't vanished. It is there in the shadows, an endlessly possible flip side to the shiny optimism of Modernity. This doubling occurs throughout the film: in the character of Harvey Dent, Gotham's White Knight and in the brilliant scene where two boats - one full of innocent civilians and one full of criminals - have to choose whether to destroy each other.

The film suggests that it is impossible to design out darkness. It is a product of our own desire, and a nightmare lurking in the same places that also give us comfort. It is not an alternative world so much as the dark side of our affluent lives.

http://fantasticjournal.blogspot.com/2008/09/dark-knightwhite-heat-architecture-of.html
 

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