The Dark Knight The Gotham Aesthetic... Or Lack Thereof.

[flickchick85]

I LOVE TDK's Gotham City. I like what's been mentioned already: the contrast, with this slick, magnificent city falling apart from the inside. I mean, it is supposed to be "America's Greatest City" right? I also thought the blue hues in this installment were fantastic. Though I did like the look of the Narrows in BB, too.

And I love that it's Chicago. I've only been there twice, but both times, it always just FELT like Gotham City to me. I think it's all the art deco and gothic architecture. It seemed natural to imagine Batman existing there.

But yes, it is very clean, which as I've said, I think works for Gotham. Oh, and for the record, it's a gorgeous city with a ton of character. Definitely unique. Like Gotham should be. It may be my favorite major American city (and I think I've been to all of them except Seattle).

 

[Crook]

I LOVE TDK's Gotham City. I like what's been mentioned already: the contrast, with this slick, magnificent city falling apart from the inside. I mean, it is supposed to be "America's Greatest City" right?

No. Crime-wise, it's the equivalent of Detroit or Baltimore. Though on pure aesthetics alone, I do think it's typically portrayed as a popular metropolitan city.

 

[Soender]

I always found that Chicago was were supes roamed. To me there simply isn't enough architectural design on the buildings portrayed in TDK for it to be a "proper" Gotham City. It's just to clean and tiddy.

It's just hard for me to see Batman shoot his grapling gun at any of these building surfaces in order for him to get to the roof tops. In "Begins" I was convinced immediately when seeing the train and the narrows, but in TDK this illusion seemed to burst.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I LOVE TDK's Gotham City. I like what's been mentioned already: the contrast, with this slick, magnificent city falling apart from the inside. I mean, it is supposed to be "America's Greatest City" right? I also thought the blue hues in this installment were fantastic. Though I did like the look of the Narrows in BB, too.

gotham IS NOT suppose to be america's greatest city. if anything, its america's black eye city.

And I love that it's Chicago. I've only been there twice, but both times, it always just FELT like Gotham City to me. I think it's all the art deco and gothic architecture. It seemed natural to imagine Batman existing there.

chicago has actually always seemed quite modern looking. i've never seen much art deco or gothic influence in its cityscape.

But yes, it is very clean, which as I've said, I think works for Gotham. Oh, and for the record, it's a gorgeous city with a ton of character. Definitely unique. Like Gotham should be. It may be my favorite major American city (and I think I've been to all of them except Seattle).

clean works for gotham? its, uh, suppose to be a derelict crime ridden hell hole corrupt city that people fear existing in. clean doesnt work for gotham.

 

[The Guard]

I will concede that THE DARK KNIGHT had less in the way of atmosphere compared to BATMAN BEGINS. That said...Gotham has looked like a more or less normal city for many years now in the comics, save for some artists renditions of "future Gotham". And someone else said it, but you all realize Gotham being "dirty" is a metaphor, right? The entire point of Nolan's Gotham seems to be that is that it looks like this majestic, beautiful place to live and do business...and it's rotting from the inside.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

The city did seem a lot cleaner in TDK, but could that have been on purpose? I mean, hasn't Batman been doing a good job? We see from the very beginning that drug dealers are afraid to conduct business, the mob deals during the day, etc.

 

[flickchick85]

gotham IS NOT suppose to be america's greatest city. if anything, its america's black eye city.

Well, then they changed that in this franchise, then, since that's exactly what Ra's called it, and that's fine by me. Actually works better for the story, imo. I mean, wasn't it originally based on NYC? Our crown jewel metropolis?

chicago has actually always seemed quite modern looking. i've never seen much art deco or gothic influence in its cityscape.

Are you kidding? It's ALL OVER the place. It's got the most art deco I've ever seen in one city. Nice gothic (even if psuedo-gothic) buildings, too. It's commonly considered the architecture capital of the country for a reason.

clean works for gotham? its, uh, suppose to be a derelict crime ridden hell hole corrupt city that people fear existing in. clean doesnt work for gotham.

You must have missed the part where I said it was that CONTRAST that I thought made it work for Gotham. A clean, magnificent city on the outside/dark, dirty, dangerous on the inside.

 

[Crook]

NYC is the metropolis of the US, but amidst all the tall buildings and bright lights, it does have some pretty bad slums.

Oh, and architecture is not synonymous with art deco or gothic-styled buildings, which is what he was referring to. I have no idea where you see Chicago as having filled with either of those. I've seen some, but generally speaking it's one of the most modern looking cities out there. If you want a nice blend of all three, look no further than Manhattan which is brimming with architecture from all eras.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Plus, Gotham was originally meant to be the romanticized (for lack of a better word) name of New York. I'm not sure why they bypassed NY and went for Chicago. Anyone know?

 

[Crook]

Nolan grew up in Chicago, loved the scenery, and saw enough in the city that he thought it'd be a good backdrop for Gotham. Plus the fact that NYC is "overused" prolly didn't help it's chances.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Good reasons I suppose.

 

[deathfromabove]

I always found that Chicago was were supes roamed. To me there simply isn't enough architectural design on the buildings portrayed in TDK for it to be a "proper" Gotham City. It's just to clean and tiddy.

It's just hard for me to see Batman shoot his grapling gun at any of these building surfaces in order for him to get to the roof tops. In "Begins" I was convinced immediately when seeing the train and the narrows, but in TDK this illusion seemed to burst.

I LOVE TDK's Gotham City. I like what's been mentioned already: the contrast, with this slick, magnificent city falling apart from the inside. I mean, it is supposed to be "America's Greatest City" right? I also thought the blue hues in this installment were fantastic. Though I did like the look of the Narrows in BB, too.

gotham IS NOT suppose to be america's greatest city. if anything, its america's black eye city.



chicago has actually always seemed quite modern looking. i've never seen much art deco or gothic influence in its cityscape.


clean works for gotham? its, uh, suppose to be a derelict crime ridden hell hole corrupt city that people fear existing in. clean doesnt work for gotham.

sorry but chicago has more well known gothic architecture than any other city in the country. hands down.

popping into the city on a visit now and again is not going to give you that impression bu i assure you chicago is second only to new york in diversity of design.

Well, then they changed that in this franchise, then, since that's exactly what Ra's called it, and that's fine by me. Actually works better for the story, imo. I mean, wasn't it originally based on NYC? Our crown jewel metropolis?


Are you kidding? It's ALL OVER the place. It's got the most art deco I've ever seen in one city. Nice gothic (even if psuedo-gothic) buildings, too. It's commonly considered the architecture capital of the country for a reason.

well said.

NYC is the metropolis of the US, but amidst all the tall buildings and bright lights, it does have some pretty bad slums.

Oh, and architecture is not synonymous with art deco or gothic-styled buildings, which is what he was referring to. I have no idea where you see Chicago as having filled with either of those. I've seen some, but generally speaking it's one of the most modern looking cities out there. If you want a nice blend of all three, look no further than Manhattan which is brimming with architecture from all eras.

as a new yorker i can understand your bias but i assure chicago is just as diverse as new york, although on a slightly smaller scale. if you grew up here and studied its buildings you would not be questioning this.

i have never seen another city with as much diverstiy in one city block as chicago has. it also has one of the best collections of public art on display.

but i can understand most who have not spent much time here only think of the sears tower and the hancock building. postcards are not the best way to judge a cities aesthetics

 

[flickchick85]

One of the visits I made to Chicago, I took one of those river boat architectural tours, and I swear, the phrase "art deco" was used more than any other type of style. Yes, there are several modern buildings, but just like NYC, it's a healthy mix, but having visited Chicago twice and NYC 4 times, I'm convinced Chicago has more of both the gothic AND the art deco architecture.

My roommates in college were both architecture majors, and one of them went with me on one of the trips (yep, the same trip we did the tour), and she was constantly pointing out all the art deco because she LOVES art deco (and her love of it rubbed off on me, too). And for the record, Chicago was their "most-studied" American city architecture-wise, which was one of the reasons we went there.

 

[gwynplaine]

Nolan grew up in Chicago, loved the scenery, and saw enough in the city that he thought it'd be a good backdrop for Gotham. Plus the fact that NYC is "overused" prolly didn't help it's chances.

Cool, I didn't know that. Good point about NYC too (specially with the spiderman movies, I guess).

 

[obiwan]

no version of gotham city has ever has as much character or personality as burtons, thats a fact.

"Burton and company seal the deal with production values grander than the character's 75-year history. Shifting locations from London to Los Angeles, production design Bo Welch had 16 of Hollywood's largest soundstages upon which to build and chill a brand new Gotham. More creative control—earned through the enhanced box office respectability of Batman and Edward Scissorhands—gives Batman Returns the director's unique visual stamp. Like the cross section of a grand old tree, Gotham's history can be seen in its conglomeration of architectural styles—neo-classical here, art deco there—merging together to show it's innate ability to survive despite the decades of moral and spiritual degradation that has overtaken it. In essence, the city becomes as important a character as those who populate it."

 

[Bat-Mite]

no version of gotham city has ever has as much character or personality as burtons, thats a fact.

No, it's an opinion, and a very disputable one at that. As a matter of fact, I'd say Schumacher's Gotham had more personality than Burton's. It's not a personality I would favor over Burton's (the exception being Schumacher's depiction of Arkham), but Schumacher's Gotham was even more of a character (in Batman Forever, at least) than it was in Burton's films. Burton's noirish hellhole and Gothic winter wonderland were far more appealing to me than the neon orgy and over the top statues, But Schumacher definitely made Gotham his own.

I'd also say that the Gotham of Batman: TAS had more personality than Gotham in either of Burton's movies, but to be fair, they had an entire series to create that city, while Burton just had two movies. And yes, I'm quite aware that there are elements of Burton's Gotham in both Batman Forever and Batman: TAS.

 

[shadowman2]

I'm a big fan of the gritty Gotham of Begins. I mean the 1989 version is cool. The Dark Knight one is pretty cool too, different from Begins, but my favorite has probably been Batman Begins Gotham.

 

[obiwan]

No, it's an opinion, and a very disputable one at that. As a matter of fact, I'd say Schumacher's Gotham had more personality than Burton's. It's not a personality I would favor over Burton's (the exception being Schumacher's depiction of Arkham), but Schumacher's Gotham was even more of a character (in Batman Forever, at least) than it was in Burton's films. Burton's noirish hellhole and Gothic winter wonderland were far more appealing to me than the neon orgy and over the top statues, But Schumacher definitely made Gotham his own.

I'd also say that the Gotham of Batman: TAS had more personality than Gotham in either of Burton's movies, but to be fair, they had an entire series to create that city, while Burton just had two movies. And yes, I'm quite aware that there are elements of Burton's Gotham in both Batman Forever and Batman: TAS.

wtf.....i dont agree with any of that. and BTAS gotham was a burton gotham ripoff, so....nolans gotham lacked any personality because, um, it didnt have any. it was a normal city. if BB gotham didnt have the pretty neat looking grimy narrows, the city would be boring. TDK city was boring. but it was the characters and action that made the movie great, but the production design, or what there was of it, was jnust awfully boring and bland. i mean cmon, admit it. even the nolan fans have to admit that burtons gotham was amazing to see and btw, they were the same gotham, Returns was B89 gotham but the snow made it look a bit different.

 

[Coleman Reese]

The aesthetic was fine. It was a departure from the gothic look of Burton and the cartoon look of Schulmaker. The whole point was to make something fresh and different.

 

[flickchick85]

i mean cmon, admit it. even the nolan fans have to admit that burtons gotham was amazing to see and btw, they were the same gotham, Returns was B89 gotham but the snow made it look a bit different.

Sorry, I can't admit that because my ideal movie Gotham looks like a real place, not soundstage city.

 

[hatebox]

Burton let himself down by allowing no continuity whatsoever of Gotham between his two films. It might as well have been two different cities. And I much preferred the first one.

 

[calibud]

I thought Gotham was a more obvious inconsistency between the two movies than Rachel Dawes. I'm not complaining, it's just really prominent when you look at the two movies.
However, I'd say more there were more day scenes in TDK than there were in Begins. That makes a huge difference. I didn't see the sweeping shots of the city landscapes as any less cramped in TDK either. There were less alleys in TDK, the Narrows didn't feature, and some settings (i.e. external shots of Wayne Tower, the train) just weren't necessary in the film. Actually thinking about it, very few of the locations from Begins were used.
So there were a lot of new locations, more day shots, and that damn blue filter which made Gotham seem so different. It doesn't change the "character" of Gotham, though. It's still a crappy place to live.

 

[tekken]

i don't know about you guys but the seizure inducing gotham in batman & robin was my favorite.

haha no...i liked TDK's gotham. it looks like that in the comics..not no man's land though. i don't think we've ever seen no man's land before. that gotham city was like trash built on trash. haha.

 

[Motown Marvel]

sorry but chicago has more well known gothic architecture than any other city in the country. hands down.

that may very well be true, i dunno, i cant say personally. but, regardless, if its true, then it might have been nice to actually show that in TDK. but they didnt.

 

[MaceB]

No, it's an opinion, and a very disputable one at that. As a matter of fact, I'd say Schumacher's Gotham had more personality than Burton's. It's not a personality I would favor over Burton's (the exception being Schumacher's depiction of Arkham), but Schumacher's Gotham was even more of a character (in Batman Forever, at least) than it was in Burton's films. Burton's noirish hellhole and Gothic winter wonderland were far more appealing to me than the neon orgy and over the top statues, But Schumacher definitely made Gotham his own.

I'm reminded of that Pulp Fiction quote, "just because you are a character, doesn't mean you have character." Some of the other representations of Gotham may have been more interesting to look at; granted, but they are like a drawing on a piece of cardboard whereas TDK is an oil painting or something. There are times that I wish Nolan's version was a little more fantastic, sure... but at least he took the time to explore his version whereas others just used the Gotham as an on-the-surface representation of ....whatever it was they were trying to say. There's a much greater feeling of complexity and credibility to Nolan's Gotham, which I prefer.