The Graysons are NOT coming to CW!

[GhostPoet]

I always thought Robin was lame...the only use he was good for was getting captured so Batman had someone to save. Sure they try to make him cool every now and then in the comic...but he's still lame to me.

 

[DarkSuperman]

Emmy winner for sure!

LOL

 

[TheCorpulent1]

don't bother, facts have no place here.

The ironic part is that although I agree with the overall sentiment here that I think this is a poor idea that would be better served by showing A) Grayson balancing his life as Robin vs that of a normal person his age, or B) transitioning from Robin to Nightwing, I dont understand the unreasonable hate here for it?

It's fricking Dick Grayson we're talking about here. Your basically playing with house money. What's he got to lose? He has no hope in hell of appearing in another Batman film anytime soon so he's a character that could use some exposure. Best case scenario, they add some back story and some depth to a character who has a very basic origin. Worst case, the show bombs after a few episodes and it quickly forgotten a la Birds of Prey and is "no harm, no foul." I just dont get the outrigth vitriol for it here? People should be so empassioned about the upcoming elections in this country.

Eventually, the comic book fad in Hollywood will pass. Studios will milk the concept one or two movies too far, people will start thinking they suck and stop watching them, and then no one will be able to make more comic-related TV or movie productions because they're regarded as old news. The Graysons basically sounds like the first nail in the comic film/TV coffin. It's an ill-conceived idea clearly meant to ape Smallville in execution, but it seems doomed to failure no matter how you look at it, which means further TV adaptations are going to become less likely after it inevitably does fail.

Plus, every one of us could come up with a dozen more interesting concepts to adapt without even breaking a sweat, so it makes the people in charge of developing this things look even more out of touch than we already know they are.

 

[Saint]

The television "No tights" rule is becoming frustrating. Why no tights? The movies haven't proven over and over that tights work just fine? I don't understand what makes an actually superhero television show seem so untouchable to these idiot executives. No, no, we've got to make them all super model teenagers!

Nightwing would be ideal for television. I mean, it's not like Green Arrow's costume one Smallville was any less ridiculous than Nightwing's costume, so there's no reason for a "No tights" rule, and the playing field is just wide open in terms of things you could do with him in a long-running show.

Instead, we'll get Gotham 90210, featuring "DJ" Grayson. Ugh.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Eventually, the comic book fad in Hollywood will pass. Studios will milk the concept one or two movies too far, people will start thinking they suck and stop watching them, and then no one will be able to make more comic-related TV or movie productions because they're regarded as old news. The Graysons basically sounds like the first nail in the comic film/TV coffin. It's an ill-conceived idea clearly meant to ape Smallville in execution, but it seems doomed to failure no matter how you look at it, which means further TV adaptations are going to become less likely after it inevitably does fail.

I'd like to think that the comicbook movie has more or less become an established genre of film now as opposed to topical fad. I mean this thing's been going on a good decade now dating back to the 1st X-Men film. I think you're going to have hits and misses along the way. But invariably if you can get a Spider-man, X2, Spider-man 2, The Dark Knight, etc to come along every so often it will continue to keep the genre thriving despite what film like LOXG, Catwoman, and Ghost Rider do. As for TV, Smallville's pretty much been it in terms of mainstream heroes during that time in terms of live action. As riddled with issues as it is, its still an unmitigated success and cash cow for the network. But you've also had the launch of things like the 4400, Heroes, etc. that have expanded the genre in TV which I'd argue encompasses general sci-fi as opposed to just comics. The amount of sci-fi on network TV these days is just staggering.

Plus, every one of us could come up with a dozen more interesting concepts to adapt without even breaking a sweat, so it makes the people in charge of developing this things look even more out of touch than we already know they are.

probably so, but you've also got to take into account that with us anything we come up with is "best case scenario" stuff whereas they've likely got a ton of restrictions on what they can do in terms of rights, budgest, licenses, approvals, etc.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

The television "No tights" rule is becoming frustrating. Why no tights? The movies haven't proven over and over that tights work just fine? I don't understand what makes an actually superhero television show seem so untouchable to these idiot executives. No, no, we've got to make them all super model teenagers!

I think you've unkowingly answered your own question. Costumes are difficult to do on a TV show budget. Look how ridiculous the old Flash costume looked in the early 1990's, or even on a show like The Tick. Even the psuedo "costumes" they do have on Smallville teeter on the edge of pure camp because they just dont have the millions to dump into decent looking costumes. Movies dont have this issue. A show like Smallville has a about a $30 million budget to create a 22 episode season of TV. A studio film has on average $150 million to make a 2 hour film.

Nightwing would be ideal for television. I mean, it's not like Green Arrow's costume one Smallville was any less ridiculous than Nightwing's costume, so there's no reason for a "No tights" rule, and the playing field is just wide open in terms of things you could do with him in a long-running show.

I agree about the Nightwing idea. I think Dick dealing with his transition from sidekick to hero would make an incredible concept for a television show, and he'd even be in his early to mid 20's which is right up the CW's alley in terms of target demos. And you never have to actually show BW on the show so you avoid stepping on Nolan's toes.

Instead, we'll get Gotham 90210, featuring "DJ" Grayson. Ugh.

Does anyone willingly go by the name "Dick" nowadays? That may have been a network mandated change. Anyone remember in the early 80's, CBS made the producers of The Incredible Hulk TV show change Bruce banner's name to David because they thought Bruce sounded "too gay." Honest to God.

 

[The Squirrel]

Eventually, the comic book fad in Hollywood will pass. Studios will milk the concept one or two movies too far, people will start thinking they suck and stop watching them, and then no one will be able to make more comic-related TV or movie productions because they're regarded as old news. The Graysons basically sounds like the first nail in the comic film/TV coffin. It's an ill-conceived idea clearly meant to ape Smallville in execution, but it seems doomed to failure no matter how you look at it, which means further TV adaptations are going to become less likely after it inevitably does fail.

Plus, every one of us could come up with a dozen more interesting concepts to adapt without even breaking a sweat, so it makes the people in charge of developing this things look even more out of touch than we already know they are.

Sad thing is I have a couple of original superhero stories I'd like to tell, I just hope it doesn't die out before then.

Oh well, they'd make just as good comic books as tv shows/movies.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

Does anyone willingly go by the name "Dick" nowadays?

Dick Cheney is a dick!.. uh goes by Dick. Hehe

 

[The Question]

probably so, but you've also got to take into account that with us anything we come up with is "best case scenario" stuff whereas they've likely got a ton of restrictions on what they can do in terms of rights, budgest, licenses, approvals, etc.

Still, they have to be pretty damn restricted to come up with a show about Dick Grayson that covers the least interesting part of his life, which is also, by the way, the most impossible to adapt into a TV series unless they completely change everything about the character.


As for the costume thing, Nightwing has one of the best costumes to adapt to live action. It's a one piece black suit with a blue bird design on the torso and arms. That's it. Not cheesy or campy.

 

[Batman]

Anyway, on a completely different note...if the Batman franchise can make "changes" to a mythology, why the hell couldn't a TV series about Robin do so? I would actually kind of expect that, given the nature of SMALLVILLE. Some of you are acting like the main problem you have with this show is that it doesn't make sense if Dick is 12 years old. Clearly he won't be. He'll probably be 16 or so.

Personally, my worry stems from the fact that, unlike Nolan, the producers don't exactly have a track record of being competent enough to make interesting "changes" to the mythology of a comic book character. Their idea of Doomsday is a bartender, for godsakes. It doesn't take much imagination to envision how screwed up The Graysons could be by the same minds.

And also, I think the bigger and more obvious problem is that they want to tell Dick Grayson's story before his parents are murdered, before Batman takes him in, and before the character's motivations for becoming interesting are even manifesting themselves in his world. Nolan's made alot of changes, but he hasn't taken the core of Bruce Wayne's motivations away from him. This, by every visible means, seeks to do so with the character of Robin.

That is, if they actually plan to make Dick Grayson interesting. Maybe they don't.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Still, they have to be pretty damn restricted to come up with a show about Dick Grayson that covers the least interesting part of his life, which is also, by the way, the most impossible to adapt into a TV series unless they completely change everything about the character.


As for the costume thing, Nightwing has one of the best costumes to adapt to live action. It's a one piece black suit with a blue bird design on the torso and arms. That's it. Not cheesy or campy.

Not even an overt bird design. It's more of V, really. It's no worse than a Star Trek uniform, in fact, and if Star Trek uniforms are good enough for an award-winning Shakespearean thespian, they're good enough for the CW.

 

[The Guard]

12, 16, doesn't matter. He didn't even know how to fight until he went to live with Batman.

Really? What are you basing this on? How hard is it to believe that a streetwise ACROBATIC circus performer might know how to defend himself? In most modern versions I've seen, Dick was quite the scrapper before he ever met Batman.

Which means this show is basically Dawson's creek with acrobats, and I don't care how you slice it, that blows.

I suppose if you just label every teenager-centric show that comes along DAWSON CREEK, yeah, that would blow. But again, what are you basing this on?

Why not just make a show about angsty teenage acrobats and keep Robin out of it?

Because obviously it being Dick Grayson, and it being set in Dick Grayson's world, is going to be somewhat relevant. Supervillains, mysteries, etc.

I just dont get the outrigth vitriol for it here

Nor do I.

It's an ill-conceived idea clearly meant to ape Smallville in execution, but it seems doomed to failure no matter how you look at it, which means further TV adaptations are going to become less likely after it inevitably does fail.

I don't think we know quite enough about it just yet to say whether or not it's ill-concieved, simply because it involves Dick Grayson and his pre-Robin life. And I'm curious. What would make it so obviously doomed to fail?

Plus, every one of us could come up with a dozen more interesting concepts to adapt without even breaking a sweat, so it makes the people in charge of developing this things look even more out of touch than we already know they are.

I fail to see what bearing you being able to come up many obvious concepts for TV shows based on superheroes with has on the quality of this particular concept, which is obviously not the "obvious" approach to a superhero adaption. That alone makes it interesting as a basic concept. Anyonecan go "I'd like to see a (insert superhero's name) series". This is at least a slightly fresh take on the story of Dick Grayson, that will explore territory that few comic books, and no movies, have gone into.

I think you've unkowingly answered your own question. Costumes are difficult to do on a TV show budget. Look how ridiculous the old Flash costume looked in the early 1990's, or even on a show like The Tick. Even the psuedo "costumes" they do have on Smallville teeter on the edge of pure camp because they just dont have the millions to dump into decent looking costumes.

SMALLVILLE's costumes have nothing to do with budget. They tend to suck because the creators of them obviously don't know the meaning of "subtle" in the context of superhero visuals. They just don't seem to understand that a costume need not look absurd and overblown to be a costume. There's no reason that THE GRAYSONS couldn't come up with a decent looking Robin costume if it wanted to. It isn't doing so because this isn't ROBIN: THE SERIES, it is purposefully meant to be the time pre-Robin. And I'm sure we'll see hints of the Robin costume in Dick's Flying Graysons outfit.

 

[The Guard]

Personally, my worry stems from the fact that, unlike Nolan, the producers don't exactly have a track record of being competent enough to make interesting "changes" to the mythology of a comic book character. Their idea of Doomsday is a bartender, for godsakes. It doesn't take much imagination to envision how screwed up The Graysons could be by the same minds.

Agreed. But the basic concept of the show itself. I.E, what we know about it so far, is not a bad one. Dick Grayson is a fantastic character. Seeing where he came from could very well prove interesting.

And also, I think the bigger and more obvious problem is that they want to tell Dick Grayson's story before his parents are murdered, before Batman takes him in, and before the character's motivations for becoming interesting are even manifesting themselves in his world.

Nolan's made alot of changes, but he hasn't taken the core of Bruce Wayne's motivations away from him. This, by every visible means, seeks to do so with the character of Robin.

This show isn't taking Robin's mythology or motivations away from him, it's just dealing with a different era of Dick's life. There's absolutely nothing here that indicates to me that they will shy away from the idea that, at some point, Dick's parents will die and Batman will take him in. That's just not what they're dealing with right off the bat.

I think they're trying to show why this kid would want to become a superhero to begin with. What kind of a world does he live in where he readily accepts the role as sidekick to a Dark Knight? There is absolutely nothing in the comics that says Dick Grayson was not an interesting person before he met Batman. In fact, they suggest otherwise. Logically, he had to acquire his skills and desire to fight crime somewhere. Robin has always been the hopeful half of the Dynamic Duo. I would imagine this show will show how he became the person that Batman wanted to work with, and to show what Dick Grayson is/was made of.

Whether it's any good or not remains to be seen. But the basic concept could be gold.

 

[Anubis]

You're just playing devils advocate because everybody else thinks this crap is stupid. It's a bad idea Keanu, accept it and stop with the bulls**t optimism.

 

[Attikus]

It should be called DICK RISING!

 

[Anubis]

 

[The Guard]

You're just playing devils advocate because everybody else thinks this crap is stupid. It's a bad idea Keanu, accept it and stop with the bulls**t optimism.

It's not optimism. I fully expect the show to fail on some level. It's logic. Simply saying the idea sucks because you think the show will suck is not logical.

 

[The Squirrel]

Not even an overt bird design. It's more of V, really. It's no worse than a Star Trek uniform, in fact, and if Star Trek uniforms are good enough for an award-winning Shakespearean thespian, they're good enough for the CW.

Preach it.

 

[The Question]

Exactly. It's a form fitting black suit designed for maximum mobility while still having body armor on some key areas. And a blue V. The biggest complaint I could see is people saying he looked kind of like a power ranger when he wears his motorcycle helmet, and even then, he'd be much more subdued and less craptacular looking than an actual power ranger.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Personally, my worry stems from the fact that, unlike Nolan, the producers don't exactly have a track record of being competent enough to make interesting "changes" to the mythology of a comic book character. Their idea of Doomsday is a bartender, for godsakes.

Doomsday is not a bartender on the show. The Davis Bloom character who will slowly start to morph into Doomsday is a paramedic by trade. They've also got a great actor in Sam Witwer from Battlestar in the role.

Their take appears to be that he's more of a villain in the Hulk or Abomination vein who at one time had a human side, as opposed to the mindless monster villain who waltzed out of a Mountain for the sole purpose of killing Superman to boost comic sales.

Not sure how it will play out. Could work, could be a disaster. Wait and see,

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They've already altered the fundamental foundation of the character by having any part of him be a normal human guy, which is a fail in my book. Saying "Doomsday" doesn't make a paramedic with a monster side Doomsday anymore than saying "Hulk" and giving me Batman makes Batman the Hulk. That's why a lot of people can't stand Smallville. They create new characters and slap old names on them. Why not just create new characters and slap new names on them instead? Comic fans wouldn't hate them as much and I doubt their ratings would suffer.

 

[Cmill216]

Worst case, the show bombs after a few episodes and it quickly forgotten a la Birds of Prey and is "no harm, no foul." I just dont get the outrigth vitriol for it here? People should be so empassioned about the upcoming elections in this country.

Well, you know where my anger is stemming from. We've got a perfectly capable leading man waiting in the wings in Justin Hartley, with a character whose easily been one of the best things about Smallville in the past two years, but they pass on this to do the Misadventures of DJ Grayson.

And to think: I was actually developing a smidget of respect for Souders and Peterson.

 

[Mikelus]

Personally, my worry stems from the fact that, unlike Nolan, the producers don't exactly have a track record of being competent enough to make interesting "changes" to the mythology of a comic book character. Their idea of Doomsday is a bartender, for godsakes. It doesn't take much imagination to envision how screwed up The Graysons could be by the same minds.

And also, I think the bigger and more obvious problem is that they want to tell Dick Grayson's story before his parents are murdered, before Batman takes him in, and before the character's motivations for becoming interesting are even manifesting themselves in his world. Nolan's made alot of changes, but he hasn't taken the core of Bruce Wayne's motivations away from him. This, by every visible means, seeks to do so with the character of Robin.

That is, if they actually plan to make Dick Grayson interesting. Maybe they don't.

"Eventually he is Doomsday, and he will eventually resemble the character that DC Comics fans are expecting," Witwer spoils. When asked if that means he will be wearing prosthetics later in the season, Witwer could not answer. "That I cannot comment on, but I will say that he will eventually resemble what people are expecting," he says.

"I just hope that the fans like what we do with it, because it's our own interpretation," Witwer says. "It's with the blessing of DC Comics, and we are not invalidating any of the backstory that Doomsday's had previously, but we are interpreting and adding to that backstory, and hopefully the fans dig on it, and I'll take my best shot at that guy."

source: K-Site

DC is responsible too.
Davis Bloome is a paramedic with the monster within. They're adding some interesting backstory to the character, plus Sam Witwer is a good actor. Maybe is not ideal, but it could be a lot worse.

I agree this whole pre-Robin idea for a series is absurd. They should rather go with a Nightwing show, a young adult Dick Grayson fighting crime and balancing his life, they could do some flashbacks to when he was Robin, etc. Time will tell, the CW could go bankrupt before they even have a chance!

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

I dont think a Green Arrow series has a future if the WB Features are serious about Supermax; The Green Arrow movie.

Sound's like Green Lantern is up first but they have 3 other projects coming (strong chance Arrow is one of them).

 

[Mikelus]

Well, you know where my anger is stemming from. We've got a perfectly capable leading man waiting in the wings in Justin Hartley, with a character whose easily been one of the best things about Smallville in the past two years, but they pass on this to do the Misadventures of DJ Grayson.

And to think: I was actually developing a smidget of respect for Souders and Peterson.

To be fair, there is a Green Arrow movie (Supermax) in development.

PS have written a lot of angst, so is not a surprise they want to repeat the dose with another DC character.