The Guns thread

[Webfoot Hero]

at some point yes, but Im sorry, if you are on meds, you shouldn't have access to deadly weapons UNTIL a deeper evaluation can happen

But it sounds like he's been treated for several years by doctors who seem to have a good understanding of what his medical issues are. If the government just told everyone who is taking meds for mental issues they're no longer able to buy or own guns without taking a closer look at their medical records, it'd be the wrong thing to do since it'd be a basic stereotyping that all mentally ill patients are dangerous.

 

[TheCommissioner]

But it sounds like he's been treated for several years by doctors who seem to have a good understanding of what his medical issues are. If the government just told everyone who is taking meds for mental issues they're no longer able to buy or own guns without taking a closer look at their medical records, it'd be the wrong thing to do since it'd be a basic stereotyping that all mentally ill patients are dangerous.

and if one of his doctors were to sign off he's good, I am entirely ok with that

both Adam Lanza and James Holmes had mental health issues and I believe both had received treatment at some point before they did what they did

 

[DarkKnight]

and if one of his doctors were to sign off he's good, I am entirely ok with that

both Adam Lanza and James Holmes had mental health issues and I believe both had received treatment at some point before they did what they did

That's true. But the truth is no matter the background checks. Gun laws. No matter the psych evaluations. If a person has ill intent, if a person wants to do harm. They will. It's a horrible truth. But some people in this world just have a pure evil heart and no regard to human life at all.

 

[TheCommissioner]

That's true. But the truth is no matter the background checks. Gun laws. No matter the psych evaluations. If a person has ill intent, if a person wants to do harm. They will. It's a horrible truth. But some people in this world just have a pure evil heart and no regard to human life at all.

thats no reason to not do anything

what the President did today is just a step, its not going to fix everything but its a step in the right direction

Im from Connecticut, my sister works in Bethel (the next town over from Newtown,) I have a friend who is from there

and I was a card carrying member of the NRA for over 10 years

 

[DarkKnight]

thats no reason to not do anything

what the President did today is just a step, its not going to fix everything but its a step in the right direction

Im from Connecticut, my sister works in Bethel (the next town over from Newtown,) I have a friend who is from there

and I was a card carrying member of the NRA for over 10 years

I didn't say that it was a reason to not do anything. As I said before I'm supportive of the new more strict background checks. I'm 100% fine with it and support it. I was just simply saying that no matter what is done there will still be that one sick evil individual out there. But knowing that these new background checks will help keep guns away from some individuals is a WIN and is will make a difference in the overall of things.

 

[chaseter]

Stop and frisk is inherently racist, I can speak to that because I got stopped twice when visiting NYC and I live in Connecticut

come up with a better solution

or maybe I should just not be a 6'3 black man

Gun crime is up in NYC now. More guns are on the streets. You want gun control measures enforced but you complain when the cops ask you to turn out your pockets. You want tighter gun control laws when Chicago has strict gun laws and more murders in a week than Islamic militants are killed by drone strikes. People want something done but are offended when it affects them personally. I always get frisked at the airport. It's always my right leg. I guess if a black guy pats me down then he's racist. Ya know, TSA is racist now that I think about it. They employ 2x the amount of black individuals as related to population statistics. I have a case.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Gun crime is up in NYC now. More guns are on the streets. You want gun control measures enforced but you complain when the cops ask you to turn out your pockets. You want tighter gun control laws when Chicago has strict gun laws and more murders in a week than Islamic militants are killed by drone strikes. People want something done but are offended when it affects them personally. I always get frisked at the airport. It's always my right leg. I guess if a black guy pats me down then he's racist. Ya know, TSA is racist now that I think about it. They employ 2x the amount of black individuals as related to population statistics. I have a case.

Uh, isn't the point the numbers in which are frisked? That the percentage of black people frisked is incredibly disproportionate?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Remember when Democrats applauded NYPD stop and frisk shutdown? Guess what: http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/n...-and-frisk-criminals-bolder-article-1.2247406

How is Chicago doing with gun laws?

We need gun reform but the Democrats are just as delusional as the gun loving Republicans.

So we should get rid of constitutional rights and live in a partial police state to keep crime 9 percent lower?

That's stupid as ****.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Gun crime is up in NYC now. More guns are on the streets. You want gun control measures enforced but you complain when the cops ask you to turn out your pockets. You want tighter gun control laws when Chicago has strict gun laws and more murders in a week than Islamic militants are killed by drone strikes. People want something done but are offended when it affects them personally. I always get frisked at the airport. It's always my right leg. I guess if a black guy pats me down then he's racist. Ya know, TSA is racist now that I think about it. They employ 2x the amount of black individuals as related to population statistics. I have a case.

Should Obama send the military to search every home for illegal weapons without the home owners consent (a more extreme version of stop and frisk)?

We would live in a police state but that would probably cut down on gun crime across the nation.

Or maybe background checks the Democrats advocate are a far more reasonable way to lower mass killings.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought the idea of these restrictions was to keep guns out of the hands of the high risk? People who are in domestic disputes or have been called a suicide risk by a doctor. Trying to reduce those arguments over divorce that turn into a tragic murder suicide.

 

[Matt Mortem]

What I absolutely cannot stand is the NRA and Republican response to this. They ***** and moan about how Obama isn't taking the correct or meaningful steps to fix this problem, but those death selling ******s in the NRA have yet to make a helpful suggestion outside of more guns. If someone is burning to death their salvation is almost certainly NOT more fire. That's really indicative of the entire Right wing of the United States. One side says "Hey let's try this stuff to move our society forward." while the other said violently shakes it's head "NO."

 

[TheCommissioner]

the NRA doesn't want any movement, any discussion at all

they have been using the politicians they gave money to so they can stall the appointment of a director the ATF, making sure their politicians kept the ban in place to stop the CDC from researching gun violence, and don't even want them commenting when mass shootings happen

 

[SV Fan]

The Dems royally screwed up a perfect opportunity to call out the Republicans. Anytime we have a mass shooting the Republicans always cry about mental health issues. I actually think when that happens the Dems should call them out on it and say what are your plans to cut down on shootings related to mental health(it's most likely a debate they won't want to have because we been cutting back on mental health issues the past 60 years).

 

[Marvolo]

at some point yes, but Im sorry, if you are on meds, you shouldn't have access to deadly weapons UNTIL a deeper evaluation can happen

Do you realize how many americans are currently on meds? Do you realize how many americans are on anxiety and anti-depressant meds alone? One in ten americans. Among women between the ages 40 and 50 its one in four. Tens of millions of americans...maybe even one hundred million americans are on anti depressants alone. And every year that number increases.

If the government started evaluating americans on meds tomorrow they would never finish evaluating everyone. No president...no politician would ever tell tens of millions of americans, many of whom are not criminals, that they have to forfeit a right and personal property until some bureaucrat goes through tens of millions of medical histories. Most americans would give washington the finger. Some would just sue the goverment or take the whole thing to the supreme court who would undoubtedly rule with the people.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2013/08/12/a-glut-of-antidepressants/?referer=

And this is just anti-depressants. There are all kinds of other medications that americans take for neurological reasons.

 

[Matt]

I am so damn sick of hearing mental illness scapegoated by gun advocates. Mental illness certainly needs to be taken more seriously and treated. But Republicans are so disingenuous in their dog and pony show. They claim to want to treat mental illness but at the same time, they are the first to try to cut federal funding for mental health initiatives and treatment.

Furthermore, all this nonsense does is create a stigma against th mentally ill. Someone with depression isn't going to shoot up a school. Most people with schizophrenia are not a threat to anyone. Mental illness already has a huge a stigma, which in turn discourages treatment. Instead of stigmatizing mental illness by scapegoating it for shootings, why not examine how to better control the item used to shoot people. Guns serve one purpose. Killing. To act as if guns are not part of the problem in mass shootings is so damn intellectually dishonest and disingenuous.

 

[Taarna]

Did I hear this right? Obama will " deputize " doctors who when seeing patients under the affordable care act ( which is not so affordable ) can at their discretion report someone as mentally ill to the FBI. Not only can this deny a right to own firearms, it's a way to eliminate or target political opponents.

Such as tactic is often used in Russia, Cuba and other places.

Such a new world order is dangerous. Not all doctors are ethical, and some may be politically motivated.

I'll give Obama some credit with this Kaiser Soze type of move. The focus was on the victims and the insane, with a tear, not on future repercussions.

Ronald Reagan nails it. These words from yesteryear are still very true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0NWqvRidlk

 

[DarkKnight]

I am so damn sick of hearing mental illness scapegoated by gun advocates. Mental illness certainly needs to be taken more seriously and treated. But Republicans are so disingenuous in their dog and pony show. They claim to want to treat mental illness but at the same time, they are the first to try to cut federal funding for mental health initiatives and treatment.

Furthermore, all this nonsense does is create a stigma against th mentally ill. Someone with depression isn't going to shoot up a school. Most people with schizophrenia are not a threat to anyone. Mental illness already has a huge a stigma, which in turn discourages treatment. Instead of stigmatizing mental illness by scapegoating it for shootings, why not examine how to better control the item used to shoot people. Guns serve one purpose. Killing. To act as if guns are not part of the problem in mass shootings is so damn intellectually dishonest and disingenuous.

I can sit one of my firearms loaded in a room with 100,000 people in it and it will not harm anyone. Someone has to choose to pick up that firearm and pull the trigger for it to harm/kill someone. Saying it is the guns fault is like saying a dunk driver that killed several people on the freeway was the cars fault.

Granted I do agree that precautions and the background checks are needed, I agree with that and I do support that. It will help weed out some of the criminals that should not by law have a firearm. That does indeed help.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Did I hear this right? Obama will " deputize " doctors who when seeing patients under the affordable care act ( which is not so affordable ) can at their discretion report someone as mentally ill to the FBI. Not only can this deny a right to own firearms, it's a way to eliminate or target political opponents.

Such as tactic is often used in Russia, Cuba and other places.

Such a new world order is dangerous. Not all doctors are ethical, and some may be politically motivated.

I'll give Obama some credit with this Kaiser Soze type of move. The focus was on the victims and the insane, with a tear, not on future repercussions.

Ronald Reagan nails it. These words from yesteryear are still very true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0NWqvRidlk

Got a source, or can I write this off as the usual ill-informd Taarna ramblings?

 

[SV Fan]

I am so damn sick of hearing mental illness scapegoated by gun advocates. Mental illness certainly needs to be taken more seriously and treated. But Republicans are so disingenuous in their dog and pony show. They claim to want to treat mental illness but at the same time, they are the first to try to cut federal funding for mental health initiatives and treatment.

Technically they are correct, I believe 60% of gun deaths are suicide. That being said you are correct as well they talk about Mental illness being a problem when it comes to guns in one breath, then want to cut funding to government programs that fund mental health issues in the next.

As I said the Democrats wasted a huge opportunity to call them out on it

 

[Matt Mortem]

As someone who struggles with mental illness I do find it a tad offensive that mental illness is that the core of the gun debate. It's so, so much more than that.

 

[TheCommissioner]

its not the core, its a piece of the pie

 

[herakles]

As someone who struggles with mental illness I do find it a tad offensive that mental illness is that the core of the gun debate. It's so, so much more than that.

That maybe so but if mental illness is determine to be one of the root causes of suicide and mass killing you're going to have to deal with it.

I personally think even if you take away guns someone who is on the fence of committing suicide will look for an alternative to ending their life. The is one thing we as a nation NEED to address. People who have those thoughts need help ASAP.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I still don't think mental illness should be the focal point of our problem here. Mental illness isn't exclusive to America, but mass gun ownership is, and more importantly ease of access to firearms is.

 

[DarkKnight]

deleted, was not really on current topic.

 

[Taarna]

Got a source, or can I write this off as the usual ill-informd Taarna ramblings?

Sure, I'll list a few. Will you read them? I'm guessing no

http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolyn...er-rights-and-obamacare-yes-it-is-in-the-law/

http://townhall.com/columnists/rach...your-guns-around-obamacare-n1727981/page/full

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...sion-made-its-way-into-obamacare-legislation/