The Guns thread

[MurkeNyou]

Funny to hear the AG in Texas (currently under criminal investigation himself) say no gun laws would have prevented this guy getting a gun, but the same jerk is down for banning Abortion throughout the state. These nuts don't even care if you can point out their blatant hypocrisy in seconds, using their own words.

When are they going to address when and where this nut, who apparently couldn't get a handgun in TX, could still be able to purchase a slaughter rifle with all the tacticool accessories?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

So armed guards and police are not enough and we need to stop disarming citizens. Glad we agree.

Quite the logic chasm you leaped over with that conclusion you jumped to.

First step, is an in-depth training process for anyone who wants to own a firearm. Second, is an in-depth background check to ensure high risk individuals don't have easy access to weapons.

Neither of which will ever happen because of smart folks like you Neal.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Anyone else find it ironic that Trump had to address yet another gun massacre right in front of Japan's leaders...a country with the lowest gun violence rate in the world thanks to their gun control laws?

In order to get a gun in Japan you have to get a mental health check, have drug tests, have your criminal history checked and to see if you've ever belonged to any extremist groups (relatives too), attend an all-day class, take a written exam, and pass a shooting range test. Must be nice to have leaders that don't have to get on their knees for the gun lobby.

 

[TheCardPlayer]

You know the attack in Texas was ended because a neighbor of the church opened fire on the shooter, right?

Can't blame you if you hadn't heard that, of course. The media prefers to bury unfortunate facts like that. As for Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay is a gun-free zone so all the good guys were disarmed. Sad

I do follow the news, which I why I know that this is not what happened at all. When you have to invent things to support your arguments, it may be time to rethink your position.

 

[redhawk23]

haha wow it happened so fast I couldn't even beat the hive-mind to it...yawn

In places where citizens have less acess to guns, the crazies use whatever. Black market guns, knives (a stabber in Japan killed 19 in an attack the same month as the France driver attack last year btw.) And basically the only difference is that the disarmed citizens were unable to defence themselves.

Is no one going to talk about the fact that this spree in Texas was ended because a neighbor to the church started shooting back?

26 people died before this shooter was shot and he was already leaving when he was shot. Great plan! Such protection!

These things don't happen on a near monthly basis in other Western countries. When they do they are decade defining crimes. In America it's Tuesday.

 

[redhawk23]

Criminalsmay find guns by other means but that doesn't mean we have to make it easy for them. We control the supplies for explosives to make it more difficult to make bombs and to make it easier to track when people do, to be able to prosecute those along the supply chain who are accessories. In what way should that not apply to goddamn AR15? That's not for hunting. It isn't even particularly practical for home defense unless you're planning to gun down 20 people attacking your front porch.

This is nonsense.

 

[redhawk23]

"All the good guys in Vegas we're disarmed." There were many armed cops on the scene. Do you know why they didn't just shoot back? Because more bullets flying through the air above a crowd of people into an occupied hotel DOES NOT HELP ANYONE.

 

[Sithborg]

26 people died before this shooter was shot and he was already leaving when he was shot. Great plan! Such protection!

These things don't happen on a near monthly basis in other Western countries. When they do they are decade defining crimes. In America it's Tuesday.

Even worse, the "hero" got into a high speed chase with the shooter. Maybe exchanging shots.

 

[C. Lee]

I do follow the news, which I why I know that this is not what happened at all. When you have to invent things to support your arguments, it may be time to rethink your position.

I'm not trying to argue one side or another, I'm just going to say what I heard on the news today.

I saw one of the neighbors that lived across the street from the church describing what happened....she said she and her husband heard shots (at first they thought it was fireworks) and went to the window. They saw the guy outside shooting at the church. He then turned around and went back to his vehicle, but they couldn't see what he did there. He then went back to the church and entered and they heard a lot more shooting, They called 911. They then saw the shooter come out, and saw a neighbor in front of their house open fire on him with his own rifle/semi automatic weapon. They exchanged gunfire...then the shooter dropped his gun, fled to his truck, and drove off. The neighbor ran to a car that had drove up, told the driver what was going on, and he got in that car and they chased the shooter.

They weren't sure if the neighbor wounded him or scared him...but he dropped his gun and ran when he started exchanging gunfire with him. The lady telling this also said that people were still pulling up to the church....so if he had not dropped his gun and ran, he quite possible would have shot more people.

EDIT: Just heard that the shooter when driving away from the church called his father and said he had been shot.

I don't know what you heard....but that is what I heard.

 

[NealKenneth]

First step, is an in-depth training process for anyone who wants to own a firearm. Second, is an in-depth background check to ensure high risk individuals don't have easy access to weapons.

Texas shooter failed background check already. And which of these two steps would have changed Las Vegas?

 

[MurkeNyou]

Texas shooter failed background check already. And which of these two steps would have changed Las Vegas?

You don't need a background check or any kind of licensing to buy a AR platform rifle in Texas, because "Yee-haww Derpy Derp Freedumb!!". It's like buying a pair of shoes. Same is true here in Floriderp. 45 minutes it took someone after the Pulse massacre here.

 

[C. Lee]

People....discuss this civilly....do not resort to offensive imagery against people who do not share your opinion.

 

[TheCardPlayer]

I'm not trying to argue one side or another, I'm just going to say what I heard on the news today.

I saw one of the neighbors that lived across the street from the church describing what happened....she said she and her husband heard shots (at first they thought it was fireworks) and went to the window. They saw the guy outside shooting at the church. He then turned around and went back to his vehicle, but they couldn't see what he did there. He then went back to the church and entered and they heard a lot more shooting, They called 911. They then saw the shooter come out, and saw a neighbor in front of their house open fire on him with his own rifle/semi automatic weapon. They exchanged gunfire...then the shooter dropped his gun, fled to his truck, and drove off. The neighbor ran to a car that had drove up, told the driver what was going on, and he got in that car and they chased the shooter.

They weren't sure if the neighbor wounded him or scared him...but he dropped his gun and ran when he started exchanging gunfire with him. The lady telling this also said that people were still pulling up to the church....so if he had not dropped his gun and ran, he quite possible would have shot more people.

EDIT: Just heard that the shooter when driving away from the church called his father and said he had been shot.

I don't know what you heard....but that is what I heard.

That's about what I heard too. I mean the neighbor shot the killer as he was leaving the church, not during the shooting. And may or may have not hit him (I hope he did). Which doesn't really affect what happened in the church sadly. I mean I wouldn't have ran into there either, so I can't judge.

But to say that an armed neighbor stopped the shooting is incorrect.

Now could he have shot more people he he hadn't dropped his gun? After the shooting you mean (during the car chase and such)? Sure. He died from a self inflicted gunshot wound so he had more weapons.

 

[MurkeNyou]

Hard to be civil when babies and old folk are being blown apart in a church kill box by some creep with an military grade assault rifle. But i'll work it best i can.

 

[C. Lee]

That's about what I heard too. I mean the neighbor shot the killer as he was leaving the church, not during the shooting. And may or may have not hit him (I hope he did). Which doesn't really affect what happened in the church sadly. I mean I wouldn't have ran into there either, so I can't judge.

But to say that an armed neighbor stopped the shooting is incorrect.

Now could he have shot more people he he hadn't dropped his gun? After the shooting you mean (during the car chase and such)? Sure. He died from a self inflicted gunshot wound so he had more weapons.

He started out by shooting at the church from the outside....so when he came out of the church, and there were several cars of late church members parking and getting out of their cars....I think it is safe to assume that he would also shoot at them. The neighbor shot at him and he dropped his gun. I and others feel that this is a good reason to say that he "stopped" the shooting. No, he did not stop it while it was going on inside the church....but he stopped it from continuing on the outside.

 

[NealKenneth]

So even though the shooter had more ammo and targets he was already "done" and the fact that someone opened fire on him had nothing to do with that....right.

But to say that an armed neighbor stopped the shooting is incorrect.

When you have to invent things to support your arguments, it may be time to rethink your position.

Indeed.

 

[TheCardPlayer]

Even the people who agree with you, readily admit they are working off assumptions.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Texas shooter failed background check already. And which of these two steps would have changed Las Vegas?

You realize you're proving my point that our current system is broken and we need stricter regulations that actually do what they are supposed to do by making this statement don't you?

 

[NealKenneth]

You realize you're proving my point that our current system is broken and we need stricter regulations that actually do what they are supposed to do by making this statement don't you?

What I am doing is pointing out is that there is no endpoint here. There is no regulation that could have stopped Paddock without also disarming every citizen in the United States.

Paddock appeared to be mentally healthy and was also very wealthy. If Paddock were made legally unable to purchase guns, then who would be able to? Only the criminals and the oh-so-trustworthy and responsible police. Do you really want that?

The citizens have already been largely disarmed already. That is why it becomes ever more common for people to be trapped with no defense for ten twenty thirty minutes waiting for the a good guy with a gun to show up (in Vegas it took an hour for police to breach the door.) Contrast that with the way it was for the first 150 years of the nation, where the citizens were just as well armed as the military. Like I said earlier, if someone had tried this at the same church a hundred years ago he would have been taking fire from twenty guys with six-shooters instantly.

So yes, I agree that the system is broken, but that doesn't mean we should make things worse.

 

[Donner]

Just out of curiosity, do you believe that teachers should be armed?

And on a separate note, do you believe in banning immigrants from certain countries?

 

[Sithborg]

But, he had the real linking between these mass shooters: domestic violence. I think that is a very, very good starting point in stopping these mass shootings. Domestic violence= you lose your guns.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

What I am doing is pointing out is that there is no endpoint here. There is no regulation that could have stopped Paddock without also disarming every citizen in the United States.

Paddock appeared to be mentally healthy and was also very wealthy. If Paddock were made legally unable to purchase guns, then who would be able to? Only the criminals and the oh-so-trustworthy and responsible police. Do you really want that?

The citizens have already been largely disarmed already. That is why it becomes ever more common for people to be trapped with no defense for ten twenty thirty minutes waiting for the a good guy with a gun to show up (in Vegas it took an hour for police to breach the door.) Contrast that with the way it was for the first 150 years of the nation, where the citizens were just as well armed as the military. Like I said earlier, if someone had tried this at the same church a hundred years ago he would have been taking fire from twenty guys with six-shooters instantly.

So yes, I agree that the system is broken, but that doesn't mean we should make things worse.

And a 100 years ago that might've been a fair fight because the assailant wouldn't have had an AR15 firing (or whatever the hell he used) on them. Nowadays you'd have to have a public armed with assault rifles to even those odds. The days of the Wild West are over. The technology on assault weapons had far exceeded the expertise level your average citizen could or should have.

Military grade assault weapons have no business being in the hands of the under-trained and unskilled populace. There's no argument to be made for it. The potential for abuse and misuse is too high. As a vet, I always laugh at these Walmart, concealed carry knuckleheads who think they're Stallone in Cobra. Meanwhile, they couldn't hit a bus from one klick away under even the slightest bit of duress.

 

[Sithborg]

He also ignores the fact that most west towns banned guns inside the town limits.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

You don't need a background check or any kind of licensing to buy a AR platform rifle in Texas, because "Yee-haww Derpy Derp Freedumb!!". It's like buying a pair of shoes. Same is true here in Floriderp. 45 minutes it took someone after the Pulse massacre here.

Actually you do. The shooter in TX had one done at a hunting/sporting goods store and he somehow passed, even with his previous military conviction of domestic abuse and him having failed a background check to get a carry permit in TX earlier. Somewhere along the line, the correct info didn't get properly entered into NICS. The same thing happened with the Virginia Tech and Charleston shooters.

 

[NealKenneth]

Nowadays you'd have to have a public armed with assault rifles to even those odds.

In a culture where carry is celebrated instead of shamed a crowd of a hundred could have 20 or 30 handguns. Maybe it doesn't even the odds completely...but I know which crowd of hundred I would rather be in.

Gun free zones need to go. Doesn't matter which level of government is enforcing it. We can thank HW and Biden for doing it to our schools, and we can thank many city and state governments for making the streets dangerous. Can play the blame game all day but either way disarment is a violation of human rights and we are slowly but surely learning the consequences of that.