The Honduran Coup

SuBe

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529416,00.html

Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted


TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — Honduras' new leaders defied growing global pressure on Monday to reverse a military coup, arguing that they had followed their constitution in removing a leftist president who attacked it.

Presidents from around Latin America were gathering in Nicaragua for meetings Monday on how to reverse the first coup in Central America in at least 16 years.

The Obama administration and European governments denounced the coup. U.S. officials said they were working for the return of ousted President Manuel Zelaya and European officials offered to mediate talks between the two sides.

But Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez took center stage in the region as he defended his ally Zelaya by casting the dispute as a rebellion by the region's poor.

"If the oligarchies break the rules of the game as they have done, the people have the right to resistance and combat, and we are with them," Chavez said in the Nicaraguan capital, Managua.
He threatened to "overthrow" the new leader sworn in by lawmakers, Congressional President Roberto Micheletti — who replied in an interview with HRN radio on Monday: "Nobody scares us."

Zelaya was seized by soldiers and hustled aboard a plane to Costa Rica early Sunday, just hours before a rogue referendum he had called in defiance of the courts and Congress, and which his opponents said was an attempt to remain in power after his term ends Jan. 27.

Micheletti said he would only serve out the end of Zelaya's term, which ends in January following presidential elections set for November.

"We respect everybody and we only ask that they respect us and leave us in peace because the country is headed toward free and transparent general elections in November," Micheletti said.
His designated foreign minister, Enrique Ortez Colindres told HRN on Monday that no coup had occurred. He said the military had merely upheld the constitution "that the earlier government wanted to reform without any basis and in an illegal way."

Troops with riot shields surrounded the presidential palace on Monday and armored military vehicles were parked in front.
But soldiers made no attempt to clear away about 200 pro-Zelaya protesters who were burning tires and other debris, as well as blocking streets with downed trees and billboards.

"We want out elected and democratic president, not this other one that the world doesn't recognize," said Marco Gallo, a 50-year-old retired teacher, who said he was on his way to join the protests in front of the palace.

The Honduran constitution limits presidents to a single 4-year term and forbids any modification of that limit. Zelaya's opponents feared he would use the referendum results to try to run again, just as Chavez reformed his country's constitution to be able to seek re-election repeatedly.

Micheletti said Sunday that the army acted on orders from the courts, and the ouster was carried out "to defend respect for the law and the principles of democracy." But he threatened to jail Zelaya and put him on trial if he returned.

Micheletti also hit back at Chavez, saying "nobody, not Barack Obama and much less Hugo Chavez, has any right to threaten this country."

Earlier, Obama said in a statement he was "deeply concerned" about the events, and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Zelaya's arrest should be condemned.

"I call on all political and social actors in Honduras to respect democratic norms, the rule of law and the tenets of the Inter-American Democratic Charter," Obama's statement read.
For those conditions to be met, Zelaya must be returned to power, U.S. officials said.

Two senior Obama administration officials told reporters that U.S. diplomats were working to ensure Zelaya's safe return.
The officials said the Obama administration in recent days had warned Honduran power players, including the armed forces, that the U.S. would not support a coup, but Honduran military leaders stopped taking their calls.

The president of Latin America's largest nation, Brazil's Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, said on his weekly radio program Monday that his nation will not recognize any Honduran government that doesn't have Zelaya as president "because he was directly elected by the vote, complying with the rules of democracy."

He also said Honduras risks isolation from the rest of the hemisphere.

"We in Latin America can no longer accept someone trying to resolve his problem through the means of a coup," Silva said.
In Brussels, the EU's External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner urged "all parties involved to resolve their differences peacefully." She said the EU's executive Commission "stands ready" to help start the talks.

Officials said EU envoys were meeting their Central American counterparts in Brussels Monday to discuss the coup and what implications it could have on free trade negotiations between the EU and Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama.

Zelaya said soldiers seized him in his pajamas at gunpoint in what he called a "coup" and a "kidnapping."

"I want to return to my country. I am president of Honduras," Zelaya said Sunday before traveling to Managua on one of Chavez's planes for regional meetings of Central American leaders and Chavez's leftist alliance of nations, known as ALBA.

Some of Zelaya's Cabinet members were detained by soldiers or police following his ouster. And the rights group Freedom of Expression said leftist legislator Cesar Ham had died in a shootout with soldiers trying to detain him. A Honduran Security Department spokesman said he had no information on Ham.

Sunday afternoon, Congress voted to accept what it said was Zelaya's letter of resignation, with even the president's former allies turning against him. Micheletti, who as leader of Congress is in line to fill any vacancy in the presidency, was sworn in to serve until Zelaya's term ends.

Micheletti belongs to Zelaya's Liberal Party, but opposed the president in the referendum.

Micheletti acknowledged that he had not spoken to any Latin American heads of state, but said, "I'm sure that 80 to 90 percent of the Honduran population is happy with what happened today."
The Organization of American States approved a resolution Sunday demanding "the immediate, safe and unconditional return of the constitutional president, Manuel Zelaya."

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned the coup and "urges the reinstatement of the democratically elected representatives of the country," said his spokeswoman, Michele Montas.

The Rio Group, which comprises 23 nations from the hemisphere, issued a statement condemning "the coup d'etat" and calling for Zelaya's "immediate and unconditional restoration to his duties."
And Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou canceled a planned visit to Honduras, one of just 23 countries that still recognize the self-governing island.

Coups were common in Central America until the 1980s, but Sunday's ouster was the first military power grab in Latin America since a brief, failed 2002 coup against Chavez.

It was the first military ouster of a Central American president since 1993, when Guatemalan military officials refused to accept President Jorge Serrano's attempt to seize absolute power and removed him.
 
I was just going to go and spend a week there too. :(
 
Left extremist anti American leader gets ousted, moderate comes in. Can't say I will shed a tear. The Supreme Court authorized the coup anyways.

As a realist I give this a thumbs up.

And it would be pretty stupid of Obama to try to get Zelaya back in since it work against American interests.
 
Maybe against American Interests, but for Leftist interests.
 
I dunno, I think that instead of demanding that Zelaya be put back into office, that the world governments need to take a step back to wait an see. This coup was approved by every member in Honduras' Congress of various parties, including his own, Supreme Court, and armed forces. I think that they know Honduras better than say the rest of the international community.

I think that if they quickly restore democracy, then this coup should be allowed because what Zelaya was attempting to do sounded like the autocratic measures that Chavez and his allies have been doing in their countries.
 
I dunno, I think that instead of demanding that Zelaya be put back into office, that the world governments need to take a step back to wait an see. This coup was approved by every member in Honduras' Congress of various parties, including his own, Supreme Court, and armed forces. I think that they know Honduras better than say the rest of the international community.

I think that if they quickly restore democracy, then this coup should be allowed because what Zelaya was attempting to do sounded like the autocratic measures that Chavez and his allies have been doing in their countries.
 
Left extremist anti American leader gets ousted, moderate comes in. Can't say I will shed a tear. The Supreme Court authorized the coup anyways.

As a realist I give this a thumbs up.

And it would be pretty stupid of Obama to try to get Zelaya back in since it work against American interests.

Obama is turning out to be completely ineffectual and naive when it comes for international relations. I doubt that he will be able to do much at all.
 
OBAMA MORE THAN 'CONCERNED'


North Korea launches a missile and it takes Barack Obama and the UN five days to respond. Iran holds fraudulent elections, kills protesters and it takes weeks before Barack Obama can stand up and say that he is "concerned" about the situation.

Then the people of Honduras try to uphold their constitution and laws of the land from being trampled by a Chavez-wanna be ... and it takes Barack Obama one day to proclaim that this was not a legal coup.
Why the sudden decisiveness? Where were these strong opinions on foreign matters when Iranian authorities were trampling protestors and cutting off media access to the outside world? Where was this decisiveness when Kim Jong Ill decided that he was going to launch missiles toward Hawaii on the Fourth of July? Why ... NOW ... is Obama suddenly speaking out loudly

How about a little background. Are you really sure you know what has been going on in Honduras? Do you think that this was simply a coup? Let me give you a rough outline here, and then you can sit back and wonder just why PrezBO is in the weeds with Chavez and Castro on this one.
Mel Zelaya is, or was, the President of Honduras. He and Hugo Chaves were tight. So tight, it seems, that Zelaya wanted to emulate Hugo by changing the Honduran constitution to allow him to run for office until he durned well gets tired of it.

To change the constitution in Honduras you have to convene a constituent assembly. The president cannot do that. The Honduran congress must approve a national referendum calling for the constituent assembly to consider changes to the constitution. Zelaya didn't like the part about the constitution requiring approval of the congress before a national referendum could be called. So ... he decided to call one on his own.

OK .. so here we have President Zelaya calling for a national referendum when he doesn't have the power to do so. The next problem is obtaining ballots! Since the Honduran congress had not called for the referendum, as required by the constitution, the government certainly wasn't going to print the ballots! After all, how smart would it be to print ballots for an illegal referendum? So ... Zelaya had to get the ballots printed elsewhere. Here's an idea! Get his pall Hugo Chavez to print them! Yes! That will work!

So Chaves prints Zelaya's ballots and they're shipped to Honduras. Enter the Honduran Supreme Court. The court considers Zelaya's election in light of the requirements of the Honduran constitution, and rules the referendum illegal and unconstitutional. The court then issues an order to the Honduran military telling them not to do the logistical work associated with Zelaya's phony referendum. Remember, now ... all of this has one primary goal. To get rid of the term limits limiting Zelaya's rule in Honduras.
After the supreme court's decision, General Romeo Velasquez tells President Zelaya that he is subject to a proper order from the Supreme Court and will not be able to carry out Zelaya's referendum. So ... Zelaya fires him. The Supreme Court orders Zelaya to reinstate Velasquez, and Zelaya refuses to do so.

At this point Zelaya's ego is getting the better of him. If the military won't run his illegal referendum, he'll just do it himself. He gins up a mob and leads them to the military compound where Hugo's ballots are stored and then has his supporters begin distributing the ballots to the masses.
Based on the Supreme Court's ruling the Honduran attorney general said that the proposed referendum was illegal and said that he would arrest anyone attempting to carry out the election. Zelaya was arrested by the military and was escorted out of the country.

Now ... does this sound like a military coup-de-etat to you? The attorney general and the military were operating in accordance with the Honduran rule of law. They acted under a valid court order. Coup? The Honduran congress has convened and designated a successor president, all in accordance with the Honduran Constitution. Military coup? The presidential elections set for November .. the election that Zelaya was trying to get around ... will go on as scheduled. A blow for democracy?
Fidel Castro, Daniel Noriega, Hugo Chavez ... all on the side of Zelaya. But Obama? Obama fighting against the rule of law and for a wannabe dictator? What gives?
Nealz nuze
 
Obama is pretty much a psuedo-socialist so it's no surprise that he would support a socialist President of another nation, even if they're trying to do something illegal.
 
It's amazing. It took him a week to "be moved" by the Iranian Protests, and never really denounced it. He barely pays attention to N. Korea and NUCLEAR Weapons, but less than 24 hours, he is denouncing THE RULE OF LAW in Honduras! Ridiculous.
 
It's amazing. It took him a week to "be moved" by the Iranian Protests, and never really denounced it. He barely pays attention to N. Korea and NUCLEAR Weapons, but less than 24 hours, he is denouncing THE RULE OF LAW in Honduras! Ridiculous.


Ridiculous, but for some reason I'm not surprised.
 
The reason why Obama is concerned? Zelaya is another Alinsky-esque follower.

Straight from Hippie's Miami Herald story:
First Zelaya scheduled a national vote on a constitutional convention. After the Honduran supreme court ruled that only the country's congress could call such an election, Zelaya ordered the army to help him stage it anyway. (It would be ''non-binding,'' he said.) When the head of the armed forces, acting on orders from the supreme court, refused, Zelaya fired him, then led a mob to break into a military base where the ballots were stored.

His actions have been repudiated by the country's supreme court, its congress, its attorney-general, its chief human-rights advocate, all its major churches, its main business association, his own political party (which recently began debating an inquiry into Zelaya's sanity) and most Hondurans: Recent polls have shown his approval rating down below 30 percent.

In fact, about the only people who didn't condemn Zelaya's political gangsterism were the foreign leaders and diplomats who now primly lecture Hondurans about the importance of constitutional law. They're also strangely silent about the vicious stream of threats against Honduras spewing from Chávez since Zelaya was deposed.
This is classic Alinsky thuggery. As I pointed out in the Liberal thread a while back, Alinsky is one of the core roots of Progressives and community organization. Not surprising influenced both Obama and Hilary (aka intellectual disciples). But it is worth noting they are a particular strand of the left, not all leftist are like this. The Alinsky inspired/influenced ones are whom I have a problem with.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty disgusted by Obama's reaction to this.
 
If Obama was a true pragmatic, he would avoid talking about this subject (or remain neutral). This is what I presumed at first. Afterall, this coup actually works in favor of American interest since Zeyala is anti-American to begin with.

But he is doing the contrary simply because of the idealogical parallel they have in common, aka disciples of Alinsky (which I didn't realize until now). It is kind of disappointing because I thought he would be more pragmatic than this. I always thought he is not a pure progressive/Alinskyite, perhaps its time I rethink that a bit more.
 
Can anyone show me why Obama is doing this? Is it really simply political ideology?

I would like to know where Obama is coming from - I don't need to agree, just comprehend.
 
This just in. Zelaya will be returning to Honduras on Thursday to face trail. I got that from a friend in Honduras.
 
Can anyone show me why Obama is doing this? Is it really simply political ideology?

I would like to know where Obama is coming from - I don't need to agree, just comprehend.

Obama: "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Communist Manifesto, err. What's that word? On the Telepromter? I don't know what a Constitution is..."
 
This just in. Zelaya will be returning to Honduras on Thursday to face trail. I got that from a friend in Honduras.

So, is he going to take the trail less traveled......lololololol....oh god I kill myself....:hehe:
 
Obama: "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Communist Manifesto, err. What's that word? On the Telepromter? I don't know what a Constitution is..."

I think I have read that somewhere today...:cwink::woot:
 
Kel, you for one should not correct ...... mispellings.........................:heart:
 

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