The Hood's play shows up the fallacies and limitations of SHRA!

[The Question]

Tony has access to telepaths, the best tech in the world (they investigate everything) and Tony has pledged to heroes more accountable and to clean up the government.

If the Initiative is giving sleeper terrorists powers and then letting them be members, Tony is a moron.

The telepaths are a good point, although I'm sure a writer would come up with some way to beat it if they made an effort.

Why would anyone in the CIA be in Al-Qaeda?

I don't know. Because they believe in Al-Qaeda's cause and want to use a possition in the united states government to help further it?

 

[BrianWilly]

Over in the Captain America book, practically three dozen agents of SHIELD have just been revealed to be mentally-manipulated by their own staff psychologist...a supervillain in disguise.

Either Tony's telepaths aren't that good, or they don't get to probe everyone, or whatever; there are ways to beat telepaths. It's happened before, and it'll happen again.

 

[The Overlord]

Over in the Captain America book, practically three dozen agents of SHIELD have just been revealed to be mentally-manipulated by their own staff psychologist...a supervillain in disguise.

Either Tony's telepaths aren't that good, or they don't get to probe everyone, or whatever; there are ways to beat telepaths. It's happened before, and it'll happen again.

Or the whole concept of the Initiative is stupid and they have to be completely stupid for the villains to pose a threat.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Shield's telepaths have in the past been very minor. Nobody who is anybody works for Shield. Just about all the high level telepaths are associated with the X-Men. Modok and the Leader are both much smarter than Reed or Stark in terms of sheer intellect. Modok is the one who invented Earth's first cosmic cube. If he decides to do that again the Initiative is screwed unless they get very lucky.

 

[The Overlord]

Over in the Captain America book, practically three dozen agents of SHIELD have just been revealed to be mentally-manipulated by their own staff psychologist...a supervillain in disguise.

Either Tony's telepaths aren't that good, or they don't get to probe everyone, or whatever; there are ways to beat telepaths. It's happened before, and it'll happen again.

Or maybe the Initiative is a dumb concept and they have to be written as idiots for the villains to pose a threat.

The telepaths are a good point, although I'm sure a writer would come up with some way to beat it if they made an effort.

If a telepath scans an employee and they can't read their thoughts, wouldn't that set off some bells?

I don't know. Because they believe in Al-Qaeda's cause and want to use a possition in the united states government to help further it?

How stupid do you think the CIA is? Anyone who even has a remote chance of being an Islamic fundamentalist would not be let in. We may not be able to get guys into Al-Qaeda, but there is no way Al-Qaeda could get guys into our agencies. They don't have the skill or the resources to do it, they aren't the Soviets.

Shield's telepaths have in the past been very minor. Nobody who is anybody works for Shield. Just about all the high level telepaths are associated with the X-Men. Modok and the Leader are both much smarter than Reed or Stark in terms of sheer intellect. Modok is the one who invented Earth's first cosmic cube. If he decides to do that again the Initiative is screwed unless they get very lucky.

MODOK and Leader lack emotional maturity and creavity, which is why they "died" for a while and Why Reed and Tony have an advantage over them. MODOK went from being the leader of AIM, to having them hate his guts and try to kill him.
Also don't you think Tony with all his connections could hire better telepaths for sHIELD?

 

[The Question]

If a telepath scans an employee and they can't read their thoughts, wouldn't that set off some bells?

Who said anything about not being able to read their thoughts? Maybe they figure a way to hide incriminating thoughts subconsciously. Mental conditioning, and the such.

How stupid do you think the CIA is? Anyone who even has a remote chance of being an Islamic fundamentalist would not be let in. We may not be able to get guys into Al-Qaeda, but there is no way Al-Qaeda could get guys into our agencies. They don't have the skill or the resources to do it, they aren't the Soviets.

Maybe. Although, the CIA has been known to make mistakes in the past.

 

[The Overlord]

Who said anything about not being able to read their thoughts? Maybe they figure a way to hide incriminating thoughts subconsciously. Mental conditioning, and the such..

What kind terrorists in MU have a good enough mentalist to fool whoever Tony would hire?

And that's not including the tech and intel resources Tony should have at his command. Before any could get the powers needed to join the Initiative, In the post Civil war era, with mistrust in air, Tony would have a million paranoid procedures to ensure that every Initiative member is 100% loyal, he would be a fool to do otherwise.

And there is no way an established hero would bercome a terrorist.

Maybe. Although, the CIA has been known to make mistakes in the past.

There is a difference between making mistakes and being completely ****ing stupid. If the CIA hired an Islamic fundamentalist, they would be ****ing stupid.

 

[The Question]

What kind terrorists in MU have a good enough mentalist to fool whoever Tony would hire?

I don't know. Any of them could, in theory, if they recruited them.

And that's not including the tech and intel resources Tony should have at his command. Before any could get the powers needed to join the Initiative, In the post Civil war era, with mistrust in air, Tony would have a million paranoid procedures to ensure that every Initiative member is 100% loyal, he would be a fool to do otherwise.

Except no system is 100% fool proof. Besides, what "procedures" would he use to prove their loyalty, besides telepaths?

And there is no way an established hero would bercome a terrorist.

Why not? What's to stop some mutant super hero from joining up with whatever's left of The Brotherhood after seeing some kid with six fingers get beaten to death by those F.O.H. nutjobs? Or just some guy getting fed up with the burocracy and inefficiency of the U.S. government and going fascist with HYDRA.

There is a difference between making mistakes and being completely ****ing stupid. If the CIA hired an Islamic fundamentalist, they would be ****ing stupid.

You make it sound like the Islamic Fundamentalist is waving around a giant hot pink sign that says "Hey, guys, FYI: I'm an Islamic Fundamentalist." They'd obviously do their best to keep that fact a secret if they;re trying to infiltrate some government office. It would take years and would be incredibly dificult and risky, but it is theoretically possible.

 

[The Overlord]

I don't know. Any of them could, in theory, if they recruited them..

Examples please?

Except no system is 100% fool proof. Besides, what "procedures" would he use to prove their loyalty, besides telepaths?

History, they would get only the most fanatical loyal soliders who have rep for doing insanely loyal feats of patrioitism, before giving them powers. I would like to see Al-Qaeda recruit from a hardcore Marine group for example.

Why not? What's to stop some mutant super hero from joining up with whatever's left of The Brotherhood after seeing some kid with six fingers get beaten to death by those F.O.H. nutjobs? Or just some guy getting fed up with the burocracy and inefficiency of the U.S. government and going fascist with HYDRA.?

So you would write an established hero who has 20 years of character development as hero, becomming a terrorists for the sake of one time plot device, that is bad writing.

So what will Ms. Marvel, just get up one day and decide to join Hydra or did you have someone else in mind to ruin?

You make it sound like the Islamic Fundamentalist is waving around a giant hot pink sign that says "Hey, guys, FYI: I'm an Islamic Fundamentalist." They'd obviously do their best to keep that fact a secret if they;re trying to infiltrate some government office. It would take years and would be incredibly dificult and risky, but it is theoretically possible.

Do you know how many background checks you have to go through to get anywhere in the CIA, if there is even the smallest hint you could compromise them, they would not let you join. Al-Qaeda members can't stand up to that type of microscope.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Powerful telepaths are pretty rare and Xavier keeps skimming off the cream of the crop so that all Tony has left are the dregs that Xavier doesn't bother with.

 

[The Question]

Examples please?

Examples of what? Something that hasn't happened on panel yet but is, in theory, possible?

History, they would get only the most fanatical loyal soliders who have rep for doing insanely loyal feats of patrioitism, before giving them powers. I would like to see Al-Qaeda recruit from a hardcore Marine group for example.

That's not really a procedure. It's more of a criteria for choosing candidates. But alright.

So you would write an established hero who has 20 years of character development as hero, becomming a terrorists for the sake of one time plot device, that is bad writing.

So what will Ms. Marvel, just get up one day and decide to join Hydra or did you have someone else in mind to ruin?

You write it off as bad writing so quickly, and yet it's only been put forth as a vaguely described concept. Who's to say it would ruin the character, or would be a cheap stunt to further a one time plot device? It could be a very solid peice of character developement, and even be in line with the character's personality depending on who you pick.

Do you know how many background checks you have to go through to get anywhere in the CIA, if there is even the smallest hint you could compromise them, they would not let you join. Al-Qaeda members can't stand up to that type of microscope.

Why not? If they spent years planning the infiltration and basically bred an agent to be the perfect spy, it could happen in theory. Yes, there are a ****load of background checks, but they're not 100% perfect all the time. Nothing is.

 

[Varient]

Sure it does. Just look at HoM, the Clone Saga and Heroes Reborn. Those are all excellent.

((((((SHUDDER)))))