The Lone Ranger

[cherokeesam]

Are you missing the fact that this is Depp's baby, and it probably only still exists because of him? And HE (Depp) wants the role of Tonto! Go knock on his door and ***** at him. Leave it out of this thread.

The movie exists because of Bruckheimer. Period. HE started production on it; HE approached Depp about starring in it.

As far as what I can and will post in this thread: it's a goddamn public discussion board, sunshine, not a direct line to Hollywood. If anybody in Hollywood actually read the SHH! forums (or any other fanzone, for that matter), they'd give up completely and go to work at McDonald's. Or spend the rest of their lives in rehab.

Also, you know what other movie Depp championed that features Native Americans? I posted this earlier:



Where were the shouts of protest for that movie?

Ya got me there, buddy....no shouts of protest at all for The Brave. Yanno why? BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER RELEASED IN THE US of A. It got such poor reviews at Cannes from American critics that Depp refused to release it in the US.

 

[The Guard]

I would imagine there were no shouts of protest about The Brave because Depp was playing a more modern Native American, and there was room for interpretation there. I'd like to think there is here, too.

What *I'm* doing is using goddamn common sense....to wit: if you make a movie about a certain ethnic group or nationality, it makes COMMON SENSE to cast someone who belongs to that group. I'm not asking for more Indians on TV or the movies; but by god, when you create a role that *features* an Indian, why the hell would you go to some ethnic group that can't put a stamp of authenticity onto it?

As for Hollywood loving green as opposed to any other color: sure, any fool knows that. Nobody's arguing that. But here's the thing...Dances With Wolves used REAL Indians to play Indian roles, and the movie made a mint and became an instant classic. Hell, almost every movie and TV show featuring an Indian role since about 1970 cast, guess what?, *Indians* in those roles. That's why I'm saying it's a throwback anachronism for Disney to cast Depp as an Indian, since it goes against everything Hollywood has spent the last 40 years doing to make amends and to do the *right* thing....which is use common sense

Except that this movie isn't about a certain ethnic group or nationality, it's about The Lone Ranger and a particular version of Tonto.

DANCES WITH WOLVES, a movie about indians, cost $22 million. A decent budget at the time, but not a huge one. It was a film that strove for a high level of authenticity due to its subject matter. The film also won Seven Academy Awards. I don't think The Lone Ranger is shooting for any awards. It was something of a surprise smash, making almost $200 million domestically. It also featured Kevin Costner, who was one of the hottest up and coming megastars at the time, thanks to THE UNTOUCHABLES and FIELD OF DREAMS and an upcoming turn in ROBIN HOOD: PRICE OF THIEVES.

Common sense, first and foremost, dictates that you cast an actor with the range and ability to play the role as it is written, not just a Native American.

Common sense also dictates that in a $200 million movie, you want to make your money back. Depp is bankable. Few stars can draw like he can.

Even had someone like George Clooney been the Lone Ranger, as had been discussed, the movie may not have made back its budget. These two facts make the casting of Johnny Depp completely logical, as long as he can convincingly play a Native American, and Tonto.

 

[rogue trooper]

All I know is that with a budget of $200 million, this better be a western like no other ever seen before. It better bring "something" to the table the way Sergio Leone did with his films, or what Kurt Russell did in Tombstone.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It's not a "conspiracy". Its just a fact that is not exclusive to Native Americans. Hollywood always has been and always will be a near "whites only" club.

Will Smith is currently the biggest box office draw in the business, Denzel Washington is a huge movie star and has been churning out hits for 20 years. Sam Jackson and Morgan Freeman are big name actors who have been in multiple successful and acclaimed roles, at one point Eddie Murphy was a huge movie star and top paid actor, his career choices killed his career, not a racial agenda. If you have the "It" factor Hollywood will put you front and center.

Never saw him in SVU, but I enjoyed him in Cowboys and Aliens. One of the other actors in his list, Wes Studi, I'm sure you know. He's the premiere Native American bad ass - playing the lead in Geronimo, as well acting in Last of the Mohicans and Dances with Wolves. He's fantastic.

I remember him more for his look and presence than his acting, plus he's nearly 70 so I don't think he fits as Tonto.

Yeah, I certainly won't argue this point. If he does a good job, great. But I still feel that its kind of a slap in the face to the culture to have one of the most widely known Native American characters ever written to be played by someone pretending to be Native American.

The thing is Depp is the main force behind this movie by all accounts and he always had the Tonto role earmarked, and it's Depp's star power that convinced the studio to sink so much money into the project.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Where were the shouts of protest for that movie?

It's not uncommon for actors of different ethnicity to play another ethnicity. They've been doing it for hundred's of years

You don't see the Chinese community objecting to any recent movie where a Japanese actor or Korean actor played a Chinese person.

I bolded recent movie because it's become so normal for hollywood to do that that protesting it would be useless at best.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I agree with Hunter, Depp is the only reason this movie exists in the first place so I, the great complainer about racist casting in Hollywood, really can't bring myself to look at the situation the same way I usually do. Depp and Verbinski are literally the only reason this movie is being made in the first place and he always wanted to play Tonto, so of course he is playing Tonto. This is one of those rare times that I just don't care for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[C. Lee]

It's not uncommon for actors of different ethnicity to play another ethnicity. They've been doing it for hundred's of years

You don't see the Chinese community objecting to any recent movie where a Japanese actor or Korean actor played a Chinese person.

I bolded recent movie because it's become so normal for hollywood to do that that protesting it would be useless at best.

Off the top of my head....I remember the complaints of a Chinese actress playing the lead role in MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA (2005).

 

[Pink Ranger]

Off the top of my head....I remember the complaints of a Chinese actress playing the lead role in MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA (2005).

You are correct, that's become the new definition of "racism" in the Asian American community, and I think it is so stupid. I must have missed that memo, but apparently all the left-wing pinko-liberal anti-racism activists got together and passed that "law" without my knowledge.

But yeah, apparently having a Chinese actress play a Japanese character is suddenly a "thing" now. Ignoring the fact that Russell Crowe has played a Roman, Don Cheadle has played a Rwandan and Jim Caviezel played a certain prominent Jewish-Middle Eastern rabbi-turned-prophet. And then Sean Connery, who has played an English spy, an English king, a Greek King, a Russian naval officer, an Egyptian swordsman and whatever the heck "Zardoz" was.

This thing kind of makes me mad too, because there is real racism out there the Asian-American community should focus on, much of it coming from the liberal left itself, that impacts me and other Asian people on a daily basis. But no, they focus on useless bullcrap like this.

Rant over.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Heck and it's not like the non native american playing a native american is new either.

There was a pbs special which showcased a really famous movie native American.

The kicker? He was actually Italian!!

Why are people suddenly up in arms over Depp as Tonto when it's been a norm to cast people who aren't the ethnicity they're playing?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Why are people suddenly up in arms over Depp as Tonto when it's been a norm to cast people who aren't the ethnicity they're playing?

Because if you aren't complaining about something you aren't internetting properly.

I mean I can kind of see the pov but the fact is there isn't a Native American actor out there who can sell a $200 million dollar film, this isn't exactly a film that's aiming for historical authenticity, and it's apparently Depp's baby anyway. So what good does *****ing about it do?

I think everyone's just raw about that stupid bird on his head.

 

[Tanin]

I only have a problem is they don't even remotely look the part. Depp even if he is part Native American does not look it at all.

I don't personally find it racist.. just stupid.

 

[protocida]

Can't this subject just die?

Anyway, I don't know if that's been reported, but James Frain is playing Tom Wilkinson's character's right-hand man, who is supervising the construction of a massive railroad (I believe Wilkinson's character is trying to force Tonto's people out of their territory to make way for this railroad, motivating Tonto to join the Lone Ranger).

 

[cherokeesam]

I would imagine there were no shouts of protest about The Brave because Depp was playing a more modern Native American, and there was room for interpretation there. I'd like to think there is here, too.



Except that this movie isn't about a certain ethnic group or nationality, it's about The Lone Ranger and a particular version of Tonto.

DANCES WITH WOLVES, a movie about indians, cost $22 million. A decent budget at the time, but not a huge one. It was a film that strove for a high level of authenticity due to its subject matter. The film also won Seven Academy Awards. I don't think The Lone Ranger is shooting for any awards. It was something of a surprise smash, making almost $200 million domestically. It also featured Kevin Costner, who was one of the hottest up and coming megastars at the time, thanks to THE UNTOUCHABLES and FIELD OF DREAMS and an upcoming turn in ROBIN HOOD: PRICE OF THIEVES.

Common sense, first and foremost, dictates that you cast an actor with the range and ability to play the role as it is written, not just a Native American.

Common sense also dictates that in a $200 million movie, you want to make your money back. Depp is bankable. Few stars can draw like he can.

Even had someone like George Clooney been the Lone Ranger, as had been discussed, the movie may not have made back its budget. These two facts make the casting of Johnny Depp completely logical, as long as he can convincingly play a Native American, and Tonto.

I understand, but I don't buy into the argument that it's all about Depp's star power as...the sidekick. There might be an argument in favor of that *if* the movie 'fessed up and advertised itself as "The Legend of Tonto," which by all accounts, it appears to be. But that's not what's being advertised. It says "THE LONE RANGER," so there's your star right there. That's the name that draws people in; that's the reason people want to see the movie in the first place. This is one of the most iconic characters in Western lore, so you put your marquee player in THAT role, *not* in Tonto's place.

It's misdirection, plain and simple. False advertising....on several fronts. And it's going to come back and bite them in the ass.

Heck and it's not like the non native american playing a native american is new either.

There was a pbs special which showcased a really famous movie native American.

The kicker? He was actually Italian!!

Why are people suddenly up in arms over Depp as Tonto when it's been a norm to cast people who aren't the ethnicity they're playing?

Because it *hasn't* been the norm, for about 40 years. Iron Eyes Cody (ironically, another of those white Wannabees claiming to be part Cherokee) was back in the 60s and 70s....but to his credit, nobody outed him as a Sicilian-American until 1996. (At least Cody, unlike Depp, made the effort to actually *be* an Indian in manner, dress, speech and culture....Depp just half-asses his kinda-sorta-mebbe ancestry.) Otherwise, the "bad old days" of not casting Native Americans in Native American roles was pretty much over after Little Big Man in 1970. There have been scattered instances since then, but by and large, Hollywood uses Native American actors for those roles instead of cross-ethnic passables.

 

[C. Lee]

A reminder for everyone....you can discuss, debate, and even argue points without name calling being rude or not being civil.

 

[Still Wynning]

Congratulations. You've wrote the most immature post in this thread.

As immature as it may be (and not that I'm defending him), I think he has a bit of a point.

No offense, but, unless people who are against something like this actually do something about it, instead of just continually voicing their disdain on a forum, I don't think those people have the right to say anything.

For example, I could be against, say, DLC for video games and constantly complain about it on a message board. But, until I actually stop downloading that type of content, they're just a bunch of hollow, empty words. As the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words.

But, that's all I have to say on the matter. It's starting to get a bit heated.

 

[Spider-Who?]

True, but I don't see it as anyone "continually" popping into a thread to do nothing but to criticize. It's been an ongoing conversation on both sides.

 

[Still Wynning]

True, but I don't see it as anyone "continually" popping into a thread to do nothing but to criticize. It's been an ongoing conversation on both sides.

Fair enough.

To be honest, I haven't really read a whole lot of this thread, so I can't really speak for everyone here. It's just that I don't like it when people criticize stuff like this (whitewashing) and don't do anything about it. It's just a bit of pet peeve of mine.

Not that I'm saying you're one of those people. t:

 

[CGHulk]

To add to the discussion, Disney used to own the rights to the Lone Ranger. It was in the acquisition when Disney bought the land in Long Beach that came with the Queen Marry. Because buying the estate of the individual who owned all of that, also owned The Lone Ranger. So this product was on the Disney's radar years ago. Eisner bought the land in Long Beach to build the theme park Disney Sea, but decided not to build it because he became frugal with the disappointment of Euro Disneyland. He then sold off the rights to The Lone Ranger thinking it un important. To make a long story short, in the end Disney is paying someone else for the right to make this Lone Ranger movie, which they used to own. Disney Sea is now in Japan, it's beautiful. Disney still owns the land in Long Beach and the Queen Mary.

Here's a little something. California Adventure in Anaheim was meant to be WESTCOT. While EPCOT is on the east coast, WESTCOT would of been on the west coast. Eisner cut billions on the second Anaheim Disney theme park called California Adventure, and scrapped the Disney Sea theme park in Long Beach.

 

[cherokeesam]

As immature as it may be (and not that I'm defending him), I think he has a bit of a point.

No offense, but, unless people who are against something like this actually do something about it, instead of just continually voicing their disdain on a forum, I don't think those people have the right to say anything.

For example, I could be against, say, DLC for video games and constantly complain about it on a message board. But, until I actually stop downloading that type of content, they're just a bunch of hollow, empty words. As the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words.

But, that's all I have to say on the matter. It's starting to get a bit heated.

What makes you think that I (or anyone else criticizing this movie) *isn't* (am not, ain't, whatever) "doing something about it?" If I boycott this movie (I certainly will), if I picket this movie (highly likely, if it ever makes it to Cherokee, but I can almost guarantee that they won't let this thing near the reservation), do you think, then, that I've earned the "right" to express my opinion on this public forum?

I don't know how many of the rest of you are Native American. But it's kind of a big deal with "us people," you know? Depp's dubious claims to Cherokee ancestry have, in particular, been a heated debate in our tribe ever since he first spouted that nonsense. If he offered up proof of his ancestry (he won't), we'd be more than happy to welcome him into the tribe he claims as his own. But otherwise, most Tsalagi --- and I speak from everyday living experience here --- wish that Depp would shut the hell up and quit pretending to belong to our tribe when he knows nothing about us.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

What makes you think that I (or anyone else criticizing this movie) *isn't* (am not, ain't, whatever) "doing something about it?" If I boycott this movie (I certainly will), if I picket this movie (highly likely, if it ever makes it to Cherokee, but I can almost guarantee that they won't let this thing near the reservation), do you think, then, that I've earned the "right" to express my opinion on this public forum?

I don't know how many of the rest of you are Native American. But it's kind of a big deal with "us people," you know? Depp's dubious claims to Cherokee ancestry have, in particular, been a heated debate in our tribe ever since he first spouted that nonsense. If he offered up proof of his ancestry (he won't), we'd be more than happy to welcome him into the tribe he claims as his own. But otherwise, most Tsalagi --- and I speak from everyday living experience here --- wish that Depp would shut the hell up and quit pretending to belong to our tribe when he knows nothing about us.

I don't know why people are pretending this isn't a big deal. If having Native American ancestry didn't matter to playing the role then Depp wouldn't have made such a stupid comment to pave the way for him being okay to star. It's not like anyone is asking Downey to show his family history so he can play Sherlock.

If Depp was just about making a positive role model of the Tonto character then he could have just stepped aside and let an actual Native American play him cause it's about the portrayal and not the actor. The movie wouldn't have cost 250 million and he still could have produced the positive portrayal and gotten the good press for doing so. But he had to have his mug on screen.

 

[Call Me Darkman]

Depp's dubious claims to Cherokee ancestry have, in particular, been a heated debate in our tribe ever since he first spouted that nonsense. If he offered up proof of his ancestry (he won't), we'd be more than happy to welcome him into the tribe he claims as his own.

Johnny Depp doesn't look caucasian. He is clearly mixed with something. Whether it's Cherokee or not, I don't know, but he is more believable than a random Italian like in the old days.

 

[DarkKnight88]

It's funny to me that Tonto is seen as some kind of classic Native American character that needs to be respected when he was actually an insult to most Native Americans.

If anything, Depp might actually bring some depth to a very shallow cliche of a character from the 1950s who was a joke to begin with.

 

[Call Me Darkman]

It's funny to me that Tonto is seen as some kind of classic Native American character that needs to be respected when he was actually an insult to most Native Americans.

If anything, Depp might actually bring some depth to a very shallow cliche of a character from the 1950s who was a joke to begin with.

Seconded.

 

[rogue trooper]

In the Lone Ranger comicbook series from Dynamite, Tonto was more layered, as he was also in a previous limited comic series from Topps in the mid 1990's written by Joe R. Lansdale. I hope to see traits of that in this film.

 

[C. Lee]

It's funny to me that Tonto is seen as some kind of classic Native American character that needs to be respected when he was actually an insult to most Native Americans.

If anything, Depp might actually bring some depth to a very shallow cliche of a character from the 1950s who was a joke to begin with.

How is Tonto an insult to Native Americans? I always saw him as a person standing up for the rights of all people and fighting injustice. Seems like a good thing to me.