The Dark Knight The Money or The Message?

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Well me and my friends have had a debate going since pretty much the movie came out about weather or not we would have burned the money or kept it, or even if what the Joker did was the "coolest" thing to do.

Personally, while I understand The Joker's point, I still would have kept the money just because I don't see who is going to find that burnt money anyways and all he was really doing was showing The Chechnyan how crazy he is and killing Lau in a creative/ironic way.

So which one would you do you think is more important? Money or the message? And I don't just mean in the circumstances of the Joker though its fine to explain yourself that way.

On another note on this scene, since the mobsters were either all gone or dead when the Joker burnt his half did he keep the mob's half as well? If thats the case isn't only burning half the money thats yours only sending out half the message then?

 

[Arsh]

The message, duh.

Didn't you listen to The Joker?

Dynamite, gunpowder, and gasoline is all cheap. Why would he need all that money?

Besides... he's a guy of simple tastes.

 

[OctaviusINC]

Well...it's NOT about the money. It's about sending a MESSAGE.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

The message, duh.

Didn't you listen to The Joker?

Dynamite, gunpowder, and gasoline is all cheap. Why would he need all that money?

Besides... he's a guy of simple tastes.

Well think about how much of that you can get and how many more goons you can hire.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

i think burning the money was the message, he probly could of found some use for it (i mean did you see how much was there!!!!). but he was using it as a example, he is sick of seeing criminals only motivated by money "it was soooo boring" as he put it. but the money he stole at the start obviously was used to put his plans together and maybe pay off some officials or bribe other mobsters to find out where the mob meeting was.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

i think burning the money was the message, he probly could of found some use for it (i mean did you see how much was there!!!!). but he was using it as a example, he is sick of seeing criminals only motivated by money "it was soooo boring" as he put it. but the money he stole at the start obviously was used to put his plans together and maybe pay off some officials or bribe other mobsters to find out where the mob meeting was.

Again though, if the only real witness was dead, whats the point of the message?

 

[November Rain]

burning the money is an empty message especially if no one was really there to see it...

he probably should have televised it...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yea the chechen was killed, but what about all his boys? they have just witness there boss get usurped and all that money get burnt. they are not going to cross Joker now are they?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

just imagen if you're gangster for a sec, employed by one of the biggest crime lords in Gotham who is thought of as untouchable. then you witness your all powerful boss get killed and millions of dollars worth of money get torched at a whim. if it was me i would deffinatly realise who is in charge from now on!! its what Joker represents, hes showing all of Gothams gangsters what he is all about, its either Jokers way or the highway. obviously not all of Gothams gangster witnessed it but i'm pretty sure that word of hundreds of millions of dollars getting burnt and one of the cities Dons getting killed would spread like wild fire through the underworld.

 

[gwynplaine]

just imagen if you're gangster for a sec, employed by one of the biggest crime lords in Gotham who is thought of as untouchable. then you witness your all powerful boss get killed and millions of dollars worth of money get torched at a whim. if it was me i would deffinatly realise who is in charge from now on!! its what Joker represents, hes showing all of Gothams gangsters what he is all about, its either Jokers way or the highway. obviously not all of Gothams gangster witnessed it but i'm pretty sure that word of hundreds of millions of dollars getting burnt and one of the cities Dons getting killed would spread like wild fire through the underworld.

If my employer was burning the money each time we make or steal some, I might want to resign.
On the other hand if said resignation implied getting a Chelsea Grin or being cut to pieces and fed to hungrrry doggs, I might reconsider and stick around a little longer.t:

 

[Ace of Knaves]

If my employer was burning the money each time we make or steal some, I might want to resign.
On the other hand if said resignation implied getting a Chelsea Grin or being cut to pieces and fed to hungrrry doggs, I might reconsider and stick around a little longer.t:

lol good points. thats exactly what i was meaning. Joker is sending the message to the Gotham underworld that he is the new "Don" and this is how things are gonna go from now on. if they don't like it they can try and take him on (and probs fail) or be apart of his new era of criminality.

 

[gwynplaine]

lol good points. thats exactly what i was meaning. Joker is sending the message to the Gotham underworld that he is the new "Don" and this is how things are gonna go from now on. if they don't like it they can try and take him on (and probs fail) or be apart of his new era of criminality.

Yeah exactly. It's their fault anyway, they let "the Clown out of the box".t:

 

[Franklin Richards]

Don't forget that the Joker is a big fat liar.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Don't forget that the Joker is a big fat liar.

how can we forget!!! but i don't think he was lying when he said "this town deserves a better class of criminal" i think that is what he is, a criminal who isn't bothered by superficial things such as money, hes a criminal just for the sake of it, to cause terror and chaos. and he is letting Gothams traditional money obsessed crims know that......with a iron fist.

 

[mongoose-mania]

Well think about how much of that you can get and how many more goons you can hire.

I doubt the Joker pays his goons.

And I think the message is more important. Sure, he could've televised it, but when he burns the money, he's basically declaring himself Gotham's king (so to speak) and is showing that he has no boundaries and can't be stopped. He is the better class of criminal because he's different from all the rest. They want money, they want riches. The Joker doesn't want anything, he's just trying to introduce a little anarchy, and burning money's pretty anarchic.
Yeah, that message should've been televised. Imagine the looks on the citizens' faces when they see a huge pile of money being burned to the ground.

 

[agentzelda]

I don't think when he says "it's not about the money" that "it" refers to the burning of it. It refers to everything he's doing, all his acts of terror and social experiments: that's what's sending the message: abandon all rules, they mean nothing in a chaotic world. No one knows or cares about the burnt money except the mob and the cops (and they're more concerned at losing Lau and his calculated information).

 

[Metropolis_Man]

I would say use the money to help support sending out your message. But there have been many cases when peoples message gets out without the help of money. So I say message.

 

[CrimsonDeath]

When the Joker burned the money, Maroni was still alive. Some of the crime lords should have made bail as well after Dent put them away and should have been around to want to collect their money, we just did not meet them. There are a bunch of them in the initial meeting.

I am plenty sure that the Joker did not need to televise the burning or have anyone find the burnt money. All the crime lords left would have felt the pinch of poverty when the time came to make withdrawals, and they all would have heard about what happened. That's the message, that they stupidly depend and define their existence by the printed bank notes. The Joker was about the Soul of Gotham. He wanted to show how dark and ugly it truly is, and all the ridiculous notions we humans hold on to. He wants to prove a true point about the human condition, as does Batman. In this way, the Joker and Batman are the most pure forces, that's why the Joker will not kill Batman. Harvey though is the duality of both those forces.

In that respect, the Joker should have burned the money because he truly believes it is worthless in his purpose. After all, he can always steal again for sport when he needs it and only to prove his point. He lives with a purpose.

 

[CaptainClown]

Joker doesn't care about money. He is like Alex DeLarge, if he wants something he takes it. He can intimidate goons to work for him because they are too scared of him to say no.

Also it looks like he burned ALL the money including the mobs. He just doesn't care about any of that stuff. It isn't like he goes home and watches his blu-ray dvds or plays his xbox. The Joker lives to destroy. Like the story Alfred said, man who stole precious stones just did it because he thought it was fun. The stones have no worth to him so why keep them?

 

[Arsh]

When the Joker burned the money, Maroni was still alive. Some of the crime lords should have made bail as well after Dent put them away and should have been around to want to collect their money, we just did not meet them. There are a bunch of them in the initial meeting.

I am plenty sure that the Joker did not need to televise the burning or have anyone find the burnt money. All the crime lords left would have felt the pinch of poverty when the time came to make withdrawals, and they all would have heard about what happened. That's the message, that they stupidly depend and define their existence by the printed bank notes. The Joker was about the Soul of Gotham. He wanted to show how dark and ugly it truly is, and all the ridiculous notions we humans hold on to. He wants to prove a true point about the human condition, as does Batman. In this way, the Joker and Batman are the most pure forces, that's why the Joker will not kill Batman. Harvey though is the duality of both those forces.

In that respect, the Joker should have burned the money because he truly believes it is worthless in his purpose. After all, he can always steal again for sport when he needs it and only to prove his point. He lives with a purpose.

Oooh, I like this. Good stuff.

 

[deathfromabove]

well said crimson.

and there is a line in the book where he says "im only burning my half. unfortunately yours will burn with it. nothing to be done im afraid." whether it was originally in the script or even filmed and then cut out i do not know. but the implication is still there.

and burning by the money the joker is breaking (burning) the mobs back. they would never really recover from losing a billion in capital. remember he says he shows the schemers just how pointless their attempts at control really are?

 

[Sam18]

It isn't like he goes home and watches his blu-ray dvds or plays his xbox.

I disagree.

 

[CaptainClown]

I disagree.

I didn't say he doesn't do it, but it isn't HIS xbox or HIS blu-ray player

 

[CrimsonDeath]

Thanks guys.

Also in the script, left out onscreen, after the ferries fail to explode and the Joker is hanging, he clearly points out that the spared prisoners would be released to cause havoc and mayhem after Gotham discovers that the White Knight Harvey has been corrupted, and thus "Gotham will understand the true nature of heroism."

See how brilliant the Joker's plan and purpose? If the citizens blow it up, they are corrupted by killing the repentant, the sinful and innocents alike. If the prisoners blow it up, it makes the case that they should have been killed. If nobody kills each other, then the Joker would have killed them all for doing the right thing. If nobody dies, then Harvey goes on to kill based on chance, willing to murder a young boy to make thing even with Gordon but sparing the Joker. Prisoners are then released and Gotham wishes they had been killed. No matter what the Joker proves his point and send his message about human corruption and that heroism is based on convenience and selfish notions of survival and fairness. Until Batman stepped in.

Why would the Joker want money when he can send a message that is almost poetic? He would want just enough to set it up.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

silly question this is