The Official Dollhouse Thread

[jaymes_e06]

:Tear: Fantasitc end to an extraordinary show.

 

[KenK]

Whedon = master of the abrupt kill of a major character you'd never think would die.

Sad to see the show go, but at least there was closure.

 

[mr. peasant]

Whedon = master of the abrupt kill of a major character you'd never think would die.

Sad to see the show go, but at least there was closure.

Yeah... Bet Alan and Felicia had a laugh inducting Tahmoh into their little club.

P.S.: My one grievance with the show is that they didn't show/explain what happened to Whiskey and Dominic. Wasn't Whiskey still in the Dollhouse at the end of Epitaph One? And what about Dominic?

 

[Max Shrek]

Wow. Lots of thoughts.

Spoiler

First off, what the heck would people who haven't seen Epitaph One have made of this? I guess they realized most people still watching are the die-hards, but even then, it's still a ballsy move to base an episode of network TV so heavily on something only out on DVD. I mean, the opening scene wasn't a "here's what happened in Epitaph One" it was a "remember when you saw Epitaph One half a year ago; let's refresh your memory." Not sure it was a smart move, but eh. I've seen E1, so I was fine with it.

Getting on with the episode itself... Loved Neuropolis and the Freakshows (even if they did turn the show into a little bit too much of Road Warrior: The Series in the middle of the episode). The mythology of the Epitaph One future was great, and they could've just ran with that, but I love that they decided to expand it. The idea of Rossum surviving as a decadent Babylon in the heart of chaos was brilliant and made sure to put out there that they were still in dangers of actual "villains," even after everything. The Freakshows, on the other hand, were a little... corny at times, like I said very low-budget Road Warrior (which you could just tell they were dying to do in a post-apocalyptic world), but the core idea behind them is very strong and was needed for Anthony's characterization.

Speaking of that, I loved the whole Anthology/Priya/Tea aspect of the story. It would've been very easy to have gotten sucked in with the mythology and epicness and wrapping up of plotlines, but I loved that they kept this core relationship at the heart of the episode. This has been sown in the seeds of the show since, I think, Episode 5 of S1, and has always remained strong, with some of the best episodes, including Needs and Belonging, focusing on the two of them and what they mean to each other. Was one of the most powerful things in it, by far, and I'm man enough to admit that I started to cry in the scene where Tea meets Tony.

Paul's death came out of nowhere for me. I had been betting on Anthony and Priya as being the couple to bite it, since they were happy, but nope. Paul, headshot, nowhere. That said, Dollhouse is in a unique position with its set-up and mythology that while yes, Paul is dead, he lives on. It's a bit of a strange romantic end (the finally-got-together couple... in one head), but Dollhouse is a strange show! The resolution of Paul and Echo is perfect and full circle (in more ways than one, but I'll get to that in a moment). Topher, on the other hand, I saw coming from a mile away. But that's not a bad thing. It was a great end for his character. In addition to redemption for putting the world into this in the first place, the most selfish man in the show goes out in a giant selfless act.

Oh, and to everyone who said Eliza couldn't act. The breakdown scene. Phenomenal.

Alpha! I covered my hands on the screen during the cast listing in case of surprises and I'm so glad I did. When he appeared, my heart jumped, but in a very good way. And then his characterization... amazing. All the best parts about Alpha, but on the side of good! He really did change. I felt so bad at the end, when he left to be alone when he's reverted back to his "normal" self, especially since we all know how terrible his real life person was (an attempted murderer). But hopefully Echo's right. He's stronger than that. He'll break through. And his last act (off screen, no less) was just... man. As someone on Whedonesque pointed out, it's the perfect full circle. The first thing we ever see him do in the show is give Echo to Paul, via a manila envelope. And the last thing? Give Paul to Echo, via a manila envelope. Same actions, completely different intentions. It was great.

Bennett's cameo was nice. Loved Topher putting his finger on her lips.

Having rewatched Epitaph One before I watched this, I was a bit saddened to see Zone and Mag go from protagonists to supporting characters, but it was expected. It's not their show, really, and thinking back, I'm happy with how much screentime they did have, considering they were only in one episode, an episode that never aired on TV no less. I thought Felicia was great as Mag, in particular her getting shot scene. Most people in TV act like getting shot is a paper cut, so I loved seeing her actually cry and freak out. Her ending was pretty good; part of me hopes Kilo's true self and her meet up and fall in love in the future. Zone, meanwhile, has come so far in only two episodes. He's gone from being a sarcastic, trigger-happy dick to essentially, a father! You'll notice I've talked a lot about characters changing and that's what I loved about Dollhouse. So many shows are just content with their characters staying the same over six years, yet in 26 episodes, we've taken this team of people who were either personality-less or amoral and turned them into people we've loved and cared about. Oh, and "landscape architect" made me laugh out loud.

I've heard a lot about the open threads of Whiskey and Dominic. I'll hand each of them on their own.

Whiskey, what open thread? We're given all the information we need. The last we see of Whiskey in the "present day" is her getting knocked unconscious by Echo, and thus presumably evacuated by the team before Rossum went boom. Which means, in the hands of the team, wiped from Clyde 2.0 and Whiskey put back in. Do we know the story of how she got the scars fixed? No, but do we need to? The next thing we need to know is that she made the decision to stay in the Dollhouse to lead future Actuals into Safe Haven. She did so, at the cost of her own life. Tragic as it is, she died, folks. There's nothing in Active architecture that prevents poisonous gas from killing you. That ending loses all its beauty if she just falls asleep! She lived, she died, great story, but it's over.

Dominic, I could see a better case made for, but you gotta remember it was like this in E1 as well. The last time we see him is after finally escaping the Attic, questioning Adelle about the cure. We don't even see him later in the episode, as part of the group who go with Echo. A throwaway line would have been nice, but it's clear from both E1 and, well, his personality, that staying with the "team" is not what Dominic would want to do. He doesn't even like these people! It's much more him to go off solo. As to what happened to him after that... well, personally, I'd like to believe he got the "vaccine" and found a nuclear shelter some place, where he stays even after Topher's pulse, eating baked beans and never seeing the sunlight. I think he'd like that.

I actually wasn't expecting too much from this. I adored E1, but the trailers didn't make it look too good. About halfway through the episode, I was getting more and more doubtful this was the finale I wanted. But it was. In every way. I laughed, I cried, I gasped. It was only after the last frame did it really hit me that I would never see these characters again...

 

[BrianWilly]

So...basically, what did Topher's device solve, though? The tech still exists. Everyone who's been using it these past couple years like Ambrose and Harding are all probably wiped out of existence now, but the tech still exists. That was the problem in the first place. They're not going to be able to keep it a secret, especially when everyone in the world is going wonder what the **** has happened.

I guess they can inoculate people against it, though, with Alpha's research.

And then with Ballard being drawn into Echo's cthuloid mindmeld, the ending was more bittersweet than it was happy. But that's just fine.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They get a second chance, I guess. If the LA Dollhouse is the only one still functioning, which seems likely given the chaos of the brainpocalypse, they can effectively keep a lid on the tech themselves or destroy it altogether and then set up plans to deal with the next time someone uncovers it or a genius figures the process out again or whatever.

Pretty good finale, all in all. Even Whedon's typical "show's ending, gotta make sure to kill a few big names" mentality didn't bother me too much. Especially with [blackout]Paul[/blackout]. That particular death actually served an interesting purpose in [blackout]Echaroline's[/blackout] character arc, so while it made me roll my eyes when it happened, I enjoyed it by the end of the episode. [blackout]Alpha's[/blackout] return was so unbelievably great that it made up for whatever distaste I've accumulated for Whedon's well-worn (read: overused) tropes, too.

 

[cheungcheung]

i thought paul was no longer interested in echo/caroline after topher took away his 'connection' with he made paul a doll.

10 years later, he's in love with her again but echo/caroline for some reason won't 'let him in'? why why why?

too many loose threads and unanswered questions for this to be a satisfying finale to me, especially since Epitaph One was so awesome. this had a lot to live up to...

also, romeo & kilo's turn to the bad side was kind of lame and tacked-on in my opinion.

 

[BrianWilly]

They get a second chance, I guess. If the LA Dollhouse is the only one still functioning, which seems likely given the chaos of the brainpocalypse, they can effectively keep a lid on the tech themselves or destroy it altogether and then set up plans to deal with the next time someone uncovers it or a genius figures the process out again or whatever.

There should be literally dozens of functional imprinting equipment remaining all over the world wherever there was a copy of Ambrose/Harding/any other Rossum leftover, because they would need that tech whenever they jumped "suits." Hell, Victor's road warriors were carrying around portable versions of imprint tech.

The "good guys" really don't have any power in this new world. We've got Adelle, Zone, Little Girl, and a bunch of people who think it's 2010 basically wandering around post-apocalyptic ruins. The three people most capable of getting **** done -- Echo, Anthony, and Priya -- are stuck underground for a year. I can't imagine any of these people being able to stop the entire human race from wondering what the heck happened for the last ten years.

 

[Kent]

"Please, you know I'm backed up. Why do you bother anymore?"

Anyone else get the feeling that Echo had made it a habit to show up and snuff Harding repeatedly in the past? You know, just for the principle of it?

 

[mr. peasant]

There should be literally dozens of functional imprinting equipment remaining all over the world wherever there was a copy of Ambrose/Harding/any other Rossum leftover, because they would need that tech whenever they jumped "suits." Hell, Victor's road warriors were carrying around portable versions of imprint tech.

The "good guys" really don't have any power in this new world. We've got Adelle, Zone, Little Girl, and a bunch of people who think it's 2010 basically wandering around post-apocalyptic ruins. The three people most capable of getting **** done -- Echo, Anthony, and Priya -- are stuck underground for a year. I can't imagine any of these people being able to stop the entire human race from wondering what the heck happened for the last ten years.

You've forgotten about the other Actuals not seen in the show but likely still exist in small numbers. They can fill in the blanks. And even if nobody believes them, they can still head over to Neuropolis (and all other obvious hubs of the technology) with torches and pitchforks. Also, it seems likely that most of the corrupt users of the tech likely have Active architecture due to their jumping from body to body and have thus been wiped clean thanks to Topher's pulse. And while they may be backed up, they would still need someone on the outside to actually imprint them into someone.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

i thought paul was no longer interested in echo/caroline after topher took away his 'connection' with he made paul a doll.

10 years later, he's in love with her again but echo/caroline for some reason won't 'let him in'? why why why?

too many loose threads and unanswered questions for this to be a satisfying finale to me, especially since Epitaph One was so awesome. this had a lot to live up to...

also, romeo & kilo's turn to the bad side was kind of lame and tacked-on in my opinion.

I think the 10 years part explains it just fine. There's a clear connection between Paul and Echaroline, even if Paul didn't feel it for a while. But Priya and Tony kept their love going on a subconscious level in spite of their programming, so it's clear that love isn't something that can just be shut off. Paul and Echo worked together for years, so their connection probably just got stronger over time until they fell in love again.

 

[BrianWilly]

You've forgotten about the other Actuals not seen in the show but likely still exist in small numbers. They can fill in the blanks. And even if nobody believes them, they can still head over to Neuropolis (and all other obvious hubs of the technology) with torches and pitchforks. Also, it seems likely that most of the corrupt users of the tech likely have Active architecture due to their jumping from body to body and have thus been wiped clean thanks to Topher's pulse. And while they may be backed up, they would still need someone on the outside to actually imprint them into someone.

The problem isn't Neuropolis, or even specifically the tech; it's the knowledge of the tech itself.

When the entire world -- most of whom have conveniently forgotten the last ten years -- finds out that some kind of mindrape superweapon has brought civilization to its knees, what are they gonna do about it? Is humanity going to collectively take the higher ground and resolve never to use and develop the tech that still exists everywhere? Or is it, beaten and frightened with nations and religions and cultures that have all of a sudden remembered their old pointless grudges, going to start fighting like hell over it in order to be the first ones to come out on top, just like they did the first time around that landed them in the mess (that they don't remember) in the first place? What's going to stop history from repeating? A handful of Actuals who've been farming in caves or whatever?

Even people like Victor's gang, who've been fighting Rossum, would still kill to defend their new toys.

The best case scenario would be somehow mass-distributing Alpha's imprint inoculation that was mentioned in Epitaph One, but we really don't know that much about how it works; it was kinda oddly brushed-aside in this episode in favor of Topher's massive freaking Deus Ex Machina. The thing is that I don't think Topher's device is remotely a long-term solution, just literally setting the clock back a bit.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Like I said before, it's a second chance. There'll still be fighting and problems, but at least 90% of the world (or the US, at least) isn't mindwiped zombies anymore.

 

[mr. peasant]

The problem isn't Neuropolis, or even specifically the tech; it's the knowledge of the tech itself.

When the entire world -- most of whom have conveniently forgotten the last ten years -- finds out that some kind of mindrape superweapon has brought civilization to its knees, what are they gonna do about it? Is humanity going to collectively take the higher ground and resolve never to use and develop the tech that still exists everywhere? Or is it, beaten and frightened with nations and religions and cultures that have all of a sudden remembered their old pointless grudges, going to start fighting like hell over it in order to be the first ones to come out on top, just like they did the first time around that landed them in the mess (that they don't remember) in the first place? What's going to stop history from repeating? A handful of Actuals who've been farming in caves or whatever?

Even people like Victor's gang, who've been fighting Rossum, would still kill to defend their new toys.

The best case scenario would be somehow mass-distributing Alpha's imprint inoculation that was mentioned in Epitaph One, but we really don't know that much about how it works; it was kinda oddly brushed-aside in this episode in favor of Topher's massive freaking Deus Ex Machina. The thing is that I don't think Topher's device is remotely a long-term solution, just literally setting the clock back a bit.

You're under the assumption people would know how to use it. Yes, the technology still exists but the knowledge of how to use it is not. Those who'd learnt to use it have been wiped out of existence (since they're likely to have used the technology on themselves to jump bodies) and people like Topher and Bennet who could figure it out are few and far between.

 

[BrianWilly]

Would it honestly be too hard to figure out if people really wanted to...which, being people, they almost certainly will? Science has not vanished from the face of the Earth. I mean, again, people like the road warriors were carrying newb-friendly, easily-replicable brain machines around with them. You get one or two Ivy-league (heh) brains into the same room as an imprint tech, they're gonna figure it out, through dangerous trial and error if nothing else.

This was what much of the show -- especially "Man on the Street" and some season 2 episodes -- emphasized and reemphasized over and over again: short of bombing the population into the stone age, the tech can't be uninvented. The idea can't be unthought-of. Humanity as an experience is changed completely. That's part of what makes it End of Days-level scary.

 

[mr. peasant]

Yes, the knowledge is not gone forever. It still exists. However, it's been rendered somewhat 'inaccessible' for the time being. It's more of a temporary band aid than a cure. But considering the devastation of brought by the tech (literally end of civilization), most people would be at least afraid to touch it for a good while. Yes, there would be people who would still dare mess about with it but unlike before, they'd be heck of a lot more careful and probably be under heavier scrutiny.

 

[cheungcheung]

I think the 10 years part explains it just fine. There's a clear connection between Paul and Echaroline, even if Paul didn't feel it for a while. But Priya and Tony kept their love going on a subconscious level in spite of their programming, so it's clear that love isn't something that can just be shut off. Paul and Echo worked together for years, so their connection probably just got stronger over time until they fell in love again.

then i guess it's echo's fault then - she obviously loved paul but didn't let herself have a true loving relationship with him even though he loved her as well - except for some sex once in a while...

i guess it's the whole 'you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone'....

too bad she didn't get to have her happy ending then.

 

[Doc Ock]

This show....is just amazing. And its cancellation just increases my already existing hatred for FOX. I'm glad the show actually got a proper ender though compared to other cancelled shows.

 

[mr. peasant]

This show....is just amazing. And its cancellation just increases my already existing hatred for FOX. I'm glad the show actually got a proper ender though compared to other cancelled shows.

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here but in this instance, I don't think Fox can really be faulted. Unlike Firefly, they played the episodes in order and did not randomly reschedule it for something else. They even gave it a second chance/season. Unfortunately, the series simply did not meet expectations and failed to attract a large enough audience. If anything, it was the viewers who let it down (specifcally, those who stopped watching or were irregular about it).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

then i guess it's echo's fault then - she obviously loved paul but didn't let herself have a true loving relationship with him even though he loved her as well - except for some sex once in a while...

i guess it's the whole 'you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone'....

too bad she didn't get to have her happy ending then.

Well, yeah, of course it's Echo's fault. But she got kind of a happy ending. Paul gets to live in her brain now. That's a very weird, Whedony happy ending.

 

[BlackLantern]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here but in this instance, I don't think Fox can really be faulted. Unlike Firefly, they played the episodes in order and did not randomly reschedule it for something else. They even gave it a second chance/season. Unfortunately, the series simply did not meet expectations and failed to attract a large enough audience. If anything, it was the viewers who let it down (specifcally, those who stopped watching or were irregular about it).

I agree....given a second season when other shows on Fox with better numbers got canned, and still couldn't grow the audience beyond what it had already

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I expected the first season to be its last. Fox was surprisingly good to Dollhouse.

 

[BlackLantern]

as good as it could be, you give them the resources to do a second season, in hopes that you grow the audience, and absolutely ZERO return....how do you justify putting out more cash to keep it going?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Well they couldnt expect that big of a draw when the show didnt even start out that big anyway. Plus having a horriable lead-in didnt help. And Fox Fridays are majority of the time deathslots for shows.

 

[BlackLantern]

if you look at pure numbers, the only network that does consistently well on Friday nights is CBS

most networks don't care about Fridays because they have at least one or two other nights during the week that they clean up on...NBC has Thursdays and sometimes Mondays, ABC has Thursday and Sunday, Fox has whenver American Idol is on