The Official Flash thread

[Harlekin]

What does that have to do with anything? The Hypertimelines are gone as of the end of Infinite Crisis, I thought. It doesn't affect things that have come before.

I thought they meant retro-actively too. Could be wrong though. Doesn't really matter much anyway.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought memory ****wittage was a standard deal with the Spectre. Like, people couldn't recognize Hal when he was the Spectre for a while either, could they?

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

either wally or bart I'll still buy the comic. I also dont think you guys are giving bart a fair chance. If wally becomes the flash again, the whole going into the sppedfoce/somewhere else thing would become pointless. i honestly believe bart will take the mantle.

 

[Harlekin]

I thought memory ****wittage was a standard deal with the Spectre. Like, people couldn't recognize Hal when he was the Spectre for a while either, could they?

Not in the beginning away. Once he honed his powers however, he could. But yeah, mind****age comes standard with the Spectre package. Heck, the Spectre doesn't even remember its previous hosts. Still sucks though.

 

[The Question]

The Spectre doesn't remember it's previous hosts? I thought it did. And, I don't see why Hal should have lost his memories. I think the standard assumption amung the powers that be is if The Spectre loses a host, it's because the host has died all the way this time. So, they wouldn't bother with a mind wipe.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If wally becomes the flash again, the whole going into the sppedfoce/somewhere else thing would become pointless.

How would it become pointless? He goes through a harrowing ordeal and Linda brings herself and the kids along, showing that she still supports Wally's decision to be a superhero, no matter the consequences. The whole reason he was thinking of quitting the superhero game before IC was because he wanted to keep his family out of danger and spend more time with them. Spending time with his family shouldn't be a problem for the Fastest Man Alive, if you think about it, so that leaves danger to his family. Linda's steadfastness when the **** hit the fan in the Crisis takes care of that. He's got no reason to quit being the Flash, as far as I see, unless he's totally powerless because of the Speed Force's absence.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm fairly certain Hal mentions something like, "My time as the Spectre is already fading from my mind" in Rebirth. I'll check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't remember.

 

[BrianWilly]

Hal's exact words in Rebirth were that he was "watching from the outside. How [the Spectre] thinks, who he talked to beyond this life...I can't recall." It's kinda vague exactly what he remembers and exactly what he forgot, and open to interpretation.

I hope they don't make a complete separation between Hal and Hal-Spectre, because he did a lot of good things as the Spectre too; helping Ollie, Secret, and Linda Danvers out just to name a few.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If anything, I imagine Ollie and Wally would at least remember and be able to fill him in on some of his big acts as the Spectre.

 

[yenaled]

I saw it as kind of like remembering a dream.

You remember it, kind of, like in flashes, but it never seems like it was you.

 

[Harlekin]

The Spectre doesn't remember it's previous hosts? I thought it did. And, I don't see why Hal should have lost his memories. I think the standard assumption amung the powers that be is if The Spectre loses a host, it's because the host has died all the way this time. So, they wouldn't bother with a mind wipe.

The Spectre himself states when he seperates from Jim Corrigan that he will in time forget Corrigan as he did his other hosts. He'll remember their actions and stuff but not as specific to a certain host.

And 'dying all the way' isn't really the right term. The life of a Spectre's host is turbulent. You either get pulled out (as happened when a previous host called Caraka rebelled) or you are finally ready for heaven (Corrigan). They're dead in body in soul but they need to change personally and spiritually before they can move on. The Spectre eventually became an extended purgatory (because after all, it cannot walk the earth without a human host).

But, like you said, I think Hal got mindwiped because he returned to life. Unlike Corrigan, who went on to heaven (and still remembered his time as the Spectre), Hal Jordan went back to the living.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The Spectre just did walk the earth without a human host, though.

 

[Harlekin]

The Spectre just did walk the earth without a human host, though.

Yeah, I know. Did the same in Day of Judgment. It directly contradicts Ostrander's run on the Spectre however. The edict of heaven is that the Spectre can not walk the earth without a host. That notion apparently got a little looser over time.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, maybe it's not a hard and fast rule, per se. More of a measure to keep the Spectre in check. Like, God decreed that the Spectre should have a host at all times because look what happens when it doesn't.

 

[Harlekin]

Well, maybe it's not a hard and fast rule, per se. More of a measure to keep the Spectre in check. Like, God decreed that the Spectre should have a host at all times because look what happens when it doesn't.

Nope. It was for a different reason. Other spirits of God or somesuch were also decreed to require a host. Something that became a heavenly decree after the death of Jesus, I believe. It's been a while since I've gone over the Ostrander run.

In the end though it is a rule, and it is normally enforced by the Archangel Michael. Heck, when Neron was able to seduce the Spectre into using Louie Snipe's soul (one of the folks that killed Corrigan) as a host and Corrigan was later able to free Louie's soul, the Spectre was immediately forced to bond with Jim.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know about Day of Judgment since I still haven't read it, but maybe Parallax's power had something to do with it in Hal's case. Parallax had a crapload of power, after all. Far more than the likes of Asmodel and other Heavenly beings. I know Michael's supposed to be about the same as Lucifer, and Lucifer's second only to God, but maybe there were other factors at work. I don't know.

 

[Harlekin]

I haven't read it either by the way. I just reread a summary, which states that the Spectre was possessed by Asmodel, so it obviously had its host in him, but there's about three years real-time between the end of the Spectre run and DoJ. The Spectre had to have walked the earth without a host at that point.

I don't really see how Parallax figures into that?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I said Parallax might have something to do with it in Hal's case. As in Rebirth and everything up to Cris Allen becoming the host. Parallax had a lot of power, and the Green Lanterns have seemed a lot less powerful since the CPB went back up, so I think it's possible that maybe part of Parallax's power went to bending the rules of the universe a bit and allowing the Spectre to walk around without a host.

 

[Harlekin]

It's a good theory. Still odd considering Nabu talks about how the big ones just haven't taken notice yet, but Michael would be aware of it the moment the Spectre split from Hal. So maybe that really is where Parallax factored in.

We deserve a no-prize.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Totally. DC should make one especially for us.

 

[RAMORE]

what about the young jay that's in outsiders. that whupped their ass.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think that's a clone, myself. Although Outsiders has been so weird and unconnected to anything else post-OYL that I'm not sure. Anyway, if that is a clone it'd be pretty lame if he became the new Flash. If it's actually Jay but reduced in age to his early 30s, it'd still be kind of lame but I could probably live with it.

 

[BrianWilly]

Maybe it also had something to do with the "perfect host" that God and the Great Lords had been preparing; she wasn't quite ready yet, and so God was stalling the hostification of the Spectre. But then the hostless Spectre went too far and God couldn't hold it off any longer.

 

[Harlekin]

That's a pretty cool theory as well. 3 DCU-no-prizes for us!

Now comes the question, who would be the perfect host? I'm betting Helen Jordan.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, clearly it wasn't Cris Allen. Allen could totally kick the "perfect" vessel's ass though, I bet.