The Official Flash thread

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Thanks. :up: Y'know, something that people forget is that at the time the decision was made to cancel Kyle's book reboot it under Hal, Kyle's book was pretty ****ing bad. I superlove Kyle more than all of you combined and you all know this so there:cmad::oldrazz:, but the GL line was indistinct and floundering at the time.

Kyle's series never got this star treatment from DC. That's the main difference with Kyle and Hal. He has just as much potential as a character as Hal does.

The same is true for the Flash, I'm sorry, it doesn't matter how much you like Peyer, it's still indistinct and floundering.

Peyer was just starting. Who knows his run could have been as good as Waid in a few years.

Maybe GL could have been revitalized without Hal, but they chose to do it with him, and it worked. And this is not me taking that old wearisome "sales = quality" approach, it's completely apparent in the series and reactions. It absolutely worked.

Since this did work for Hal there should be no reason to give Kyle a solo title with the same treatment then. Doubt it'll happen, though.

And there would not have been a Sinestro Corps with without Hal, Sinestro is Hal's rogue and not Kyle's, or anyone else's. There may have been some other form of some other Corps, but it would have been very different than what we got. Would it have worked as much? Who the **** knows?

Not that big a change. Sinestro could have a different relationship with Kyle but Sinestro would have done all those things if Hal wasn't around.
 
He'd fit in well. He was already a Titan, in fact. Plus, he could go back to banging Donna Troy, which ain't bad.
 
Which book? I thought he started out about as degraded as anyone can get on Titans. :huh:
 
Which book? I thought he started out about as degraded as anyone can get on Titans. :huh:

The way I see it Winick is the same on every book.

He starts off pretty good, then the quality degrades, then you get the point where you're begging for a new writer but the guy just won't leave.

With Titans, it had an alright first issue, but I'm already begging for a new writer because it's probably going to get worse :csad:
 
This is what we call having your cake, and eating it too.

Or what I prefer to call, trying to give us the double stuff. You can't write long ass essays defending something, and then come back 5 posts later and be like "Well it's not like I really like it or anything...."

It's like reading a Dread Bendis comic review and have him come back and say "But Bendis is a decent writer."
Because everything about opinions is always straightforward, black and white, completely unambiguous, and you either have to love something unconditionally or hate it with the fire of a million burning babies. :yay::up:

In any case, I said right from the beginning that I was excited for Rebirth. The thing that I don't condone is what they've done with the Flash lately. Not sure why you would think they are the same thing...
 
I agree with some of what you said before, in that the supporters are not generally worse off except in terms of mainstream name recognition, but I don't think I follow your argument here. Yeah, the Flash line is floundering. But how is the logical solution to that sweeping Wally--whom most readers still identify as the main Flash--under the rug and starting fresh with Barry? It's a solution, since putting Johns and Van Sciver on anything will result in huge sales, but is it the best solution? I don't think so. It's a regression, plain and simple. Barry had his time, those stories are still out there for everyone to enjoy, and Wally is cusping on an almost unprecedented character evolution in comics--the journey from sidekick all the way to parenthood. I say "cusping" even though he's technically already there because, let's face it, it hasn't been handled all that well. With Waid, the kids overpowered everything else, and with Peyer, the kids feel like more of a minor subplot with the hyper-aging thing instead of a balanced, cohesive part of Wally's life.
This is going to be a supremely unpopular opinion, but you could say the same of Barry's "Well his stories are done" for Wally as well. Barry had thirty years as a headliner to Wally's twenty, yes, but in comparing the scope of stories and what they've done for the character, Wally far overshadows Barry. I don't mean that you should take a bullet to Wally's brain and just be done with it, I mean that when he left during IC, I was ready for Bart to go ahead and take over permanently and for him to do something else with his time. No one's stories are ever really done, of course, just interrupted, but we're not even talking about Wally being done, we're just talking about him not being in the spotlight. And, really, you never know. You say that Wally's kids overpowering everything was why they didn't come across so well, so who's to say that relegating the entire family to a supporting role isn't the way to fix that?

Are we even so certain that Wally isn't going to have his own book away from Barry, anyway? If they follow the method of GL: Rebirth to the tee, which included the main title alongside GL Corps, there's no reason for there not to be a Flash alongside a Flash Family or whatever. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and say that there almost certainly will be more than one Flash title after this.

At the end of the day, I'm simply not sure I see Barry as anything but yet another legacy in play. Not in terms of the actual story relations, obviously, but in terms of tone. Most of us have never even read a Barry Allen story before, and these new stories are obviously not going to be the same as those were.

Still, that's no cause to just bring Barry back and shuffle Wally off to someplace else--probably Titans, under Winick, which is basically a fate worse than death anyway. Why not just put Johns and Van Sciver on Wally's book? Why regress with a Barry mini-series and eventual, inevitable ongoing series when they could progress the Flash legacy overall? It's this regressive thought process that's endemic of many of DC's current problems, as far as I'm concerned. When in doubt, the current regime's response is to look backward and see how they can basically redo something that stands out in their minds. Barry's return, while I'm sure it'll be done well and sell like hotcakes, is another example of that. I miss the DC universe of just half a decade ago, where progress was the order of the day. Sure, they had a whole lot of misses, but at least they were trying instead of resorting to the safety net of the past at every turn.
I agree that I really do not want to see a Justice League with HAL! BARRY! OLLIE! and the old guard hogging up room and all of the progresses that DC has made shoved off to less public areas, but I can absolutely see DC's thought process here. As far as they can see, GL: Rebirth and what followed it has been one of their biggest successes lately, not just financially but critically as well in the longterm. Seriously, what conceivable reason could there be for them to not try to mimic that? There is none. They could just have Johns and Van Sciver on a Wally book, sure, but there is absolutely no reason for them to not try this instead.
 
Yeah, it does make sense on a business level to let Johns do everything he wants, up to and including aping his own success with Hal. I can't really fault them for it, either. I'm just personally not happy with the decision and I don't intend to support it. If Wally's got a comic afterwards, great, I'm definitely onboard for that. I still have the feeling that he'll fade into obscurity simply because of the nature of superhero marketing. Jay and Alan are still around and they're still great, but as far as anyone who doesn't read half of DC's publishing line is concerned, Hal is Green Lantern and Barry will be the Flash again. That means movies, cartoons, JLA membership--all the big stuff, in effect--goes to Barry. Which basically sucks, as far as I'm concerned.
 
If both Green Lanterns are on the Justice League, why the hell can't both Flashes be on there as well?
 
Both Green Lanterns aren't on the JLA. John is on the JLA and we periodically get lip-service about Hal kinda still sort of being on there when he feels like it until Robinson plucks him off to be in the JL series.
 
Both Green Lanterns aren't on the JLA. John is on the JLA and we periodically get lip-service about Hal kinda still sort of being on there when he feels like it until Robinson plucks him off to be in the JL series.
Both Hal and John are League members regardless of how McDuffie uses them. But my point still stands with McDuffie's JLA and Robinson's Justice League each getting a Green Lantern, then why can't they each get a Flash?
 
Both Hal and John are League members regardless of how McDuffie uses them.
Uh-huh, and this dog over here is a duck.
But my point still stands with McDuffie's JLA and Robinson's Justice League each getting a Green Lantern, then why can't they each get a Flash?
That, I agree with. If Wally's still on the JLA, I'll probably read that. If he gets switched over to the JL, I might still read it if Captain Atom's on there as well. We'll see.
 
Corp:

What's Captain Atom up to these days?

Is he over his Monarch phase?
 
We'll find out eventually in James Robinson's Justice League.

As far as Wally, I kinda hope he just retires to raise his children if this has to go down. None of this slowly fading away, two (technically three) but only one of any real importance Flash bulls**t. If it must be, then just let him choose to spend whatever time he has with his kids who may or may not age to deaths door at any moment. At least in twenty, (or at the rate DC is putting out the Crisis' these days, two or three) years, he could be back as the main Flash if these things turn out the way they seem to always do. Limbo is better than being turned into a s**t character then whacked during the next big event to trim the fat.
 
But the characters who are whacked tend to come from limbo. Where were the Freedom Fighters before Bizarro massacred them in Infinite Crisis?
 
1st of all they were wacked by a bunch of dudes. And second, shut up!
 
You can say kyle's tenure couldve brought back the corps, but you're forgetting one thing: 1. Kyle represents the era of no GL corps
You do know that Kyle did bring back the Guardians and the concept of the Corps, don't you? Everything Hal accomplished up until Sin Corps War, actually, Kyle accomplished first, and with more style and flair. Resurrecting Lanterns? Kyle did it first. Bringing back the Guardians? Kyle did it first. Finding lost GLs? Kyle did it first.

Wally's book hasnt sold well or been talked about in about three years.
Dude, Wally's book is as good as it's been since Rogue War.
 
At least in twenty, (or at the rate DC is putting out the Crisis' these days, two or three) years, he could be back as the main Flash if these things turn out the way they seem to always do.
You think there's gonna be a DC Comics in twenty years? They need to turn their **** around now if they think they're gonna be around in twenty years.
 
Are we even so certain that Wally isn't going to have his own book away from Barry, anyway?
Yes. As a matter of fact, we are. Because we learn from history, and we notice that Kyle does not have his own book. He co-has a book. Not the same thing.

If they follow the method of GL: Rebirth to the tee, which included the main title alongside GL Corps, there's no reason for there not to be a Flash alongside a Flash Family or whatever.
I can't put into words how unexcited I am for Flash Corps.

I agree that I really do not want to see a Justice League with HAL! BARRY! OLLIE! and the old guard hogging up room and all of the progresses that DC has made shoved off to less public areas, but I can absolutely see DC's thought process here. As far as they can see, GL: Rebirth and what followed it has been one of their biggest successes lately, not just financially but critically as well in the longterm. Seriously, what conceivable reason could there be for them to not try to mimic that? There is none. They could just have Johns and Van Sciver on a Wally book, sure, but there is absolutely no reason for them to not try this instead.
Nobody said it didn't make business sense. We said we didn't like the decision.
 
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