You're forgetting Kyle and Wally weren't treated the same in their solo titles.
I've already explained why Wally has had the better deal there.
Those two are not equals in the eyes of DC.
How could I forget, when you seem intent on reminding me for no apparent reason? I never claimed that they'd both been treated equally well by DC, and I wasn't even
talking about their solo titles. I said that both of them have done very good on teams, and so being on teams is not a bad thing for them. That's all I said. Nothing about who did better than the other. You're having an entirely different conversation than me, like I said "Jordan and O'neil have both had great basketball careers," and then you replied with "But Jordan has done better than him, and by himself too!" as if it had anything at all to do with what I was trying to say.
The only person here making it a pissing contest is you.
"Wally has had much better treatment"
"Guy was never in Kyle's position."
"We all know Hal would have the edge in the franchise with Johns' anyway."
"I've already explained why Wally has had the better deal there."
Every response you've made --
every one of them -- to either me or anyone else has either been to complain that Kyle isn't getting it as good as another character, or to claim that he deserves more than another character. Hal's name comes up, you complain that he's doing better than Kyle. Wally's name comes up, you complain that he's
done better than Kyle. Guy's name comes up, you complain that Kyle outclasses him. The punchline is that I don't even care that much, all threads of this nature become nothing but inane competitions eventually and I compare characters a lot myself anyway...but don't try and pretend that it isn't what it is.
Kyle is in a team book. He's sharing the spotlight. Hal gets the spotlight by himself.
The spotlight doesn't make me like Hal more. The spotlight is not the end-all and be-all of a character. Sometimes it isn't even a little of a character. If there's anything I truly wanted to say in midst of all of this, it would be that.
Tomasi is a great writer, he isn't A-list, though.
Why should that matter?
Being a big player in a series that's marginalized by the people who read it is not good.
It was a big deal. Unfortunately it was, as you say, "crap". That isn't going to help Kyle's image in the DCU. In fact it probably hurt it.
Again, this is not what we're discussing. If the question is "Has Kyle been in the spotlight lately?" then the answer is "Yes, he absolutely has." Whether or not the material is good is irrelevant. Concurrently, he also played an
extremely large role in Sinestro Cors War, with two one-shots dedicated to his story there, and guess what? Most people absolutely
hated how he was portrayed there. I know I did. Kyle
had the
spotlight that you so passionately wanted, and the story turned out bad.
Which is exactly what I'm saying; being in the spotlight does not automatically guarantee good characters, story, or treatment;
Hal himself is a testament to that. He
is the headliner, and his stories have been boring for the most part. Bart and Wally, also prime examples: virtually no one liked Bart's Flash series, and Wally himself is struggling along.
If all you want is for Kyle to have good stories that treat him well, it shouldn't
****ing matter if his name is at the front of a book or not, because that's absolutely no guarantee at all that he'd have good stories or be treated well; the last years of Kyle's
own book is a testament to that!
He was used by Black Mary as a bludgeon to hit Donna Troy in it!
Well, some would say that was Countdown's best part..
Kyle has a book in the same sense that Vixen has a book.
Seeing as how Vixen has completely taken over the JLA plotline as of the last couple months and is currently the single most important member of the team, I'm not sure you really thought through this comparison...
The problem here is that you want us all the have a really simplistic, straw-man viewpoint that you can just dismantle without having to think about it. No one enjoys Kyle less because he's only in GLC.
"[Kyle has only been] a guest star or supporting player in titles which were nowhere near the quality Hal's title had been given."
"It's a backward step as a character. he should have got his own solo series."
"Why must Kyle settle for sharing a book with the GLC when they could have given his own ongoing title?"
"It the best thing that's happened for Guy. For Kyle it's a demotion."
"Kyle does not have his own book. He co-has a book. Not the same thing."
Nobody enjoys GLC less because Kyle's not the star.
"the only ongoing title he's in Kyle has less to do then Guy in it despite Guy being much lower in the DCU character hierarchy."
Nobody's even saying that we like the mainline Green Lantern book less because Kyle's not the star of that book (as opposed to not liking it for other reasons.)
"Is there really anything that wasn't accomplished by Kyle's already having brought the Corps and Guardians back that was accomplished by Hal's return?"
"Hal's GL could have been done with Kyle with minor changes."
"Sinestro Corps. War could have been just as great with a Kyle solo title involved in the story or Kyle in Hal's position."
What we're saying is that we think Kyle deserves his own book. What in the hell is so offensive to you about that idea?
Nothing about that idea offends me. What
irritates me is when people start acting dumb about it and lets their fandom overrun their sense whenever something changes about the status quo, particularly with legacy characters. You all sound
exactly like Hal fans did when Kyle was the main GL, and can't even see it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: fans like to pretend that they are only averse to bad change, but the fact is that they...
we...will freak the hell out about any kind of change whatsoever. It's happened over and over again and it will
continue to happen in the future, and I suppose I'm just sick and tired of it after all this time.
I think the dumbest and most biased opinion I've encountered here yet is that Sinestro Corps War could have been done just the same with Kyle instead of Hal. That is
dumb, even disregarding the fact that Sinestro was as dead as Hal before GL Rebirth, and you are all letting your fandom completely overwhelm your understanding of the characters if you think otherwise. Sinestro is not Kyle's rogue! They barely even know each other! He barely even knows Guy or John! An entire
event focused on Sinestro while somehow excluding Hal would be like asking for a Joker event without a Batman, or a Rogues' story without the Flash. And the idea that you could have just substituted Kyle in Hal's place for that story and have things still be the same...wait, what, you mean rewrite
every line of dialogue and characterization and action that Kyle would have done instead of Hal, and somehow it'd still end up being the same story? Seriously, people? Seriously?
Did any of us say we didn't like GL Corps? I don't remember anyone saying that.
Nevertheless, the
entire gist of this conversation is me saying that GL Corps is good for him, while everyone else thinks that he
deserves better. Christ, way to marginalize one of the best books on the shelf. What's more, it's utterly ****ing
hilarious that, apparently, popular opinion holds that it should be good enough for
Guy but not good enough for Kyle. That's the exact sort of petty fanboy bull**** that I'm talking about; Kyle can't just be peers and comrades with another character, nope, he has to
outshine him! He has to
outdo the little people! **** that noise.
I'm gonna blow your mind here and say that both are true! I love GL Corps. However, it is not a Kyle book, and it's tangentially important to the DCU. Holy **** complexity.
Hal's book is tangentially important to the DCU as well. Other than the Sinestro Corps War, which Kyle was a part of,
absolutely no issues of Hal's book has tied into any other DC stories. Hal himself as a
character has appeared in JLA and Final Crisis as practically negligible nonentities, alongside John Stewart who has had a stronger presence than him in both stories so far. Kyle, by comparison, has
starred in Countdown and Search for Ray Palmer which have been a few of DC's top projects and the single
most significant DCU books as far as company direction and ongoing continuity. Just because you don't like it -- and I seem to recall
you of all people doggedly defending Countdown not too long ago -- does not mean that Kyle has not been present. It does not mean that Kyle has been
neglected, which was what this entire conversation was about, back when we were talking about Wally. Remember that?
Both you and The Major want it both ways. When I say that Kyle has had a significant presence in DC, you complain that those stories were bad. When I say that Kyle has been in incredibly good stories, you say that those don't count 'cause they aren't "big" enough. I would love Kyle to have a solo series someday, but that does not mean that I'm unhappy about his current situation, nor will I pretend that his presence itself has somehow been neglected by DC just because Hal is back; that is simply inaccurate and unfair.
Ion was never an ongoing in the first place. So it was never canceled either. It was always meant to be 12 issues.
See, I totally forgot about that. It just goes to show, when people spout the same misinformation that many times, it tends to slowly become fact.
