The Official Flash thread

[blksuperman2]

What is this?? Boo

DC is out of control. Why is Cyborg still a Teen Titan then? THis means 2 different Kid Flashes have grown up and he's still the same age. Nonesense.

 

[BrianWilly]

Uh, he's not a teenager anymore. He's not the same age as he was back then. He is an adult that serves as a mentor and chaperone capacity for the kids.

 

[KingOfDreams]

I liked Bart as Impulse and though I haven't been reading Teen Titans I kind of got the impression he was still kind of immature as Kid Flash. They're going to have to mature him a lot to be The Flash, and it'll be wierd since he was still a kid pretty much not to long ago.

 

[blksuperman2]

Uh, he's not a teenager anymore. He's not the same age as he was back then. He is an adult that serves as a mentor and chaperone capacity for the kids.

Pardon my ignorance. Didn't know that. Still don't like it though.

Boo

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

What is this?? Boo

DC is out of control. Why is Cyborg still a Teen Titan then? THis means 2 different Kid Flashes have grown up and he's still the same age. Nonesense.

looks like somebody hasnt been reading the titans book nor know their history and i wouldreally like to know how dc is out of control...should be marevl in that sentence startinga war that doesnt even make sense

 

[Hawkeye]

hmm.....Not sure I want to see Bart as Flash just yet.

 

[Green Lantern]

but you cant compare bats and supes. the flash books doesnt belong to one person,the book is a legacy book. wally,bart, jay are all sucesors to the throne. each one gets thier chnace in the spotlight,so now its bart's turn.

Who did Jay take over as Flash for? Oh THATS RIGHT HE WAS THE FIRST!

 

[Assassin]

shut up, dun be a smarr asss



i know a guy who talks like that...

 

[Stealth_Prime]

Although I tolerated Bart as Impulse, I bit my lip hoping he would grow up; which happened in the pages of the Titans (took them long enough) I agree with you guys, that Barry and Wally's time has to pass, that's cool but how do we know Bart can handle the task of being the Flash??? Anyone remember the Young Justice series 'Sins of Youth' and he was the adult? How did he handle the problem of pond of water about to flood the city? He had so many possibilities it took Wally in his Kid Flash youth to resolve the situation and we know he was capable of doing that because we watched him grow into his role as the Flash, by his experience and time benefitted through so many years of side-kicking with Barry and working alongside about 5 different incarnations of the Titans and then the JLA...I have to confess when they killed off Barry, I still didn't want to acknowledge Wally as THE Flash even though he was one of my FAVORITE Titans. And I totally thought he was cool after Mark Waid made him more human to me at least. By emphasizing that the Flashes are human and as humans they get married. And Wally and Linda married making them seem more real to me. I wish we can see how Bart grows up, like how we did with Wally. But ah well...knowing DC they'll do a "Year One" series again, and will continue the exploits of young Bart pushing Superboy Prime into the Speed Force until his return an a young man in the pages of Infinite Crisis warning Kimiyo (the female Dr. Light)
Oh by the way:
Challenge guys: What issue did Wally say that to and to whom????????

 

[Johnny Blaze]

****ing LAME.

Wally'd still better goddamn well be involved somehow.

I concur...on both counts.

 

[The Question]

Although I tolerated Bart as Impulse, I bit my lip hoping he would grow up; which happened in the pages of the Titans (took them long enough)

I, personally, thought it was completely mishandled in the Titans. Instead of having him mature gradually as what was starting to happen in Young Justice, Johns just shot him in the knee and had him become all wise and mature of panel.

 

[Stealth_Prime]

Ooopss sorry, meant to say:

Challenge guys: what issue did Wally say that marriage is what Flashes do, and to who did he say that too?

 

[Assassin]

from comic bloc in a similar thread

look at all this Flash love.....Bart....hummmm.lets see...l have drawn everyone...EVERYONE....but who is the Flash....well they can all say they are...but who will stay the Flash.....only time will tell.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

I, personally, thought it was completely mishandled in the Titans. Instead of having him mature gradually as what was starting to happen in Young Justice, Johns just shot him in the knee and had him become all wise and mature of panel.

thats false, he never became all wise and mature, the gunshot was a wake up call for him. his past recklessness has gotten him in danger and everyone saw his faults and talked about how immature he was, hell even after he got his knee shot at, it was on a panel where he was talking to robin about what happened the library, that what he just did, didnt make him any wiser, that knowledge was completely different from having experience. i also think the titans tomorrow was a wake up call for him too.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I, personally, thought it was completely mishandled in the Titans. Instead of having him mature gradually as what was starting to happen in Young Justice, Johns just shot him in the knee and had him become all wise and mature of panel.

He was still pretty immature, as far as I saw. He knew a lot more stuff, but he had that childish, know-it-all quality afterwards where he wanted to use all of his knowledge at once. That's not maturity, that's retaining information. Over time, and especially after seeing his own potential realized in his "Titans Tomorrow" counterpart, he started calming down and being less anxious to prove himself and more comfortable just doing what he does. It all seemed pretty gradual to me in Teen Titans.

 

[The Question]

thats false, he never became all wise and mature, the gunshot was a wake up call for him. his past recklessness has gotten him in danger and everyone saw his faults and talked about how immature he was, hell even after he got his knee shot at, it was on a panel where he was talking to robin about what happened the library, that what he just did, didnt make him any wiser, that knowledge was completely different from having experience. i also think the titans tomorrow was a wake up call for him too.

It was still terribly rushed. None of his learning or growing happened on panel. And Impulse has gone through alot worse than getting shot in the knee in the past. Hell, for a while he had the power to make copies of himself, and he felt one of his copies die as if he was dying. Alot worse than getting shot. Geoff Johns ****ed up with Bart. Plain and simple.

He was still pretty immature, as far as I saw. He knew a lot more stuff, but he had that childish, know-it-all quality afterwards where he wanted to use all of his knowledge at once. That's not maturity, that's retaining information. Over time, and especially after seeing his own potential realized in his "Titans Tomorrow" counterpart, he started calming down and being less anxious to prove himself and more comfortable just doing what he does. It all seemed pretty gradual to me in Teen Titans.

Not to me. After about ten issues, Bart was completely unrecognisable. What really bothered me was the fact that he became Kid Flash. It just seemed all kinds of wrong to me. It seemed so un Bart like of him. And that bothered me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

How is it unlike him? Based on what I've read of him in Waid's Flash run, Johns' Flash run, and Teen Titans, he's always wanted to be part of the Flash legacy that his grandfather helped establish. Becoming Kid Flash was pretty much inevitable for him.

I remember his copy dying during OWAW. I don't see how it makes a difference for the knee-shot, though. Bart's copy dying was part of Superboy's traumatic realization that he wasn't quite leadership material. If anything, it'd probably just make Bart mad at Superboy for being so reckless; Bart himself was just following his orders. In the Teen Titans instance, he was reckless himself, which led to Deathstroke kicking his ass and shooting him in the knee. Without anyone else to blame, he's forced to re-examine himself, which leads to his getting tired of being the joke of the team and deciding to reinvent himself as Kid Flash, to give himself a new beginning. Outside of Bart not being as funny or goofy as he was in Young Justice and his early Flash appearances, I don't see anything wrong with Johns' characterization. Plus, Johns gave a convincing reason for why Bart isn't as goofy in TT.

 

[The Question]

How is it unlike him? Based on what I've read of him in Waid's Flash run, Johns' Flash run, and Teen Titans, he's always wanted to be part of the Flash legacy that his grandfather helped establish. Becoming Kid Flash was pretty much inevitable for him.

I suppose. It's just, I don't know, I'd think Bart would want to be apart of the legacy but still be his own man. Hence being called "Impulse" instead of "Kid Flash" in the first place.

I remember his copy dying during OWAW. I don't see how it makes a difference for the knee-shot, though. Bart's copy dying was part of Superboy's traumatic realization that he wasn't quite leadership material. If anything, it'd probably just make Bart mad at Superboy for being so reckless; Bart himself was just following his orders.

It was also a kick in the rear for Bart, showing him that the world ain't a video game and you can't respawn. And that seemed alot more natural than the knee thing.

In the Teen Titans instance, he was reckless himself, which led to Deathstroke kicking his ass and shooting him in the knee. Without anyone else to blame, he's forced to re-examine himself, which leads to his getting tired of being the joke of the team and deciding to reinvent himself as Kid Flash, to give himself a new beginning. Outside of Bart not being as funny or goofy as he was in Young Justice and his early Flash appearances, I don't see anything wrong with Johns' characterization. Plus, Johns gave a convincing reason for why Bart isn't as goofy in TT.

It just wasn't convincing for me. It was too rushed. He made him change too quickly. He mishandled it. Having Bart grow is fine, but I think Johns jumped the gun with it. YJ was already having Bart mature, but it was alot more organic. I mean, Bart's been badly injured before, and he never got all introspective about it then.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I suppose. It's just, I don't know, I'd think Bart would want to be apart of the legacy but still be his own man. Hence being called "Impulse" instead of "Kid Flash" in the first place.

Initially, Bart didn't like Wally and was very leary of letting himself be connected with him. They were antagonists pretty much all the time they were together. After working with Wally for a while and seeing him in action, though, my impression was that Bart had gained some measure of respect for him and seen that he'd made the Flash title his own, even though he bore the same name as Jay and Barry and wore a costume almost identical to Barry's. That realization, plus the desire to reinvent himself, made it seem natural for him to accept his place as the new Kid Flash. Rather than being a concession to the Flash legacy just because that's how it was done before, I saw his taking the Kid Flash identity as an acknowledgement that he knows he's not Wally and he's confident that he can be his own man, even though the world knows there was a Kid Flash before, just like Wally's managed to be his own man even though the world knows there were two other Flashes.

It was also a kick in the rear for Bart, showing him that the world ain't a video game and you can't respawn. And that seemed alot more natural than the knee thing.

Kind of, except that he essentially did respawn. He got hurt and his copy died, but he managed to come out of it all right. It was a close call, but at the end of the day it didn't quite happen to him. He even played the part of spectator right up until the dupe actually died, egging the dupe to run faster like it was someone else. Getting shot in the knee by Deathstroke and being helpless to stop it seemed a lot more personal to me. Plus, there were the other factors like his being older and having matured over YJ, as you mentioned, and all that stuff with the Deathstroke incident.

The rest is all just personal interpretation, I guess. I didn't see it as rushed, I saw it as an emergence from a traumatic experience, which can very often act as a catalyst for major change.

 

[The Question]

Initially, Bart didn't like Wally and was very leary of letting himself be connected with him. They were antagonists pretty much all the time they were together. After working with Wally for a while and seeing him in action, though, my impression was that Bart had gained some measure of respect for him and seen that he'd made the Flash title his own, even though he bore the same name as Jay and Barry and wore a costume almost identical to Barry's. That realization, plus the desire to reinvent himself, made it seem natural for him to accept his place as the new Kid Flash. Rather than being a concession to the Flash legacy just because that's how it was done before, I saw his taking the Kid Flash identity as an acknowledgement that he knows he's not Wally and he's confident that he can be his own man, even though the world knows there was a Kid Flash before, just like Wally's managed to be his own man even though the world knows there were two other Flashes.

Well, I personally saw it as Geoff Johns being so god damned obsessed with things that are "iconic" that he made it so there was a Kid Flash. It just ddin't seem right to me.

Kind of, except that he essentially did respawn. He got hurt and his copy died, but he managed to come out of it all right. It was a close call, but at the end of the day it didn't quite happen to him. He even played the part of spectator right up until the dupe actually died, egging the dupe to run faster like it was someone else.

And when the dupe died, Bart basically thought "holy crap, that could have been me." Don't forget that he actually quit YJ for a while because he was scared of dying, and eventually got over it to help his friends. That's growing, and it was done much better than the whole kneecap thing.

Getting shot in the knee by Deathstroke and being helpless to stop it seemed a lot more personal to me. Plus, there were the other factors like his being older and having matured over YJ, as you mentioned, and all that stuff with the Deathstroke incident.

I suppose. But while it may have been more personal, the dupe dying was much more traumatic.

The rest is all just personal interpretation, I guess. I didn't see it as rushed, I saw it as an emergence from a traumatic experience, which can very often act as a catalyst for major change.

I suppose. Really, I think part of this is just me still being pissed off that they cancelled YJ to make TT. I mean, Teen Titans is an okay book, but Young Justice was WAY better. Besides, I don't thing Johns is as good as alot of people say. I mean, he's a very talanted writer, but sometimes his love for the silver age seems to get in the way of things, which bothers me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Johns does tend to get a little overzealous with the Silver Age love. The absolute worst example of that from his definitely Green Lantern. Rebirth was great except for the fact that it was basically a big reset button for Hal's character to his exact Silver Age personality, rather than an evolution. The GL series has also been pretty lacklustre.

 

[The Question]

Yeah. Rebirth bothered me for a few reasons. First, it pretty much made all the character developement Hal went through in the Spectre series (which kicked all manner of ass, by the way) meaningless. And, it ruined a great chance for a character arc of Hal trying to regain the trust of his comrads in GL.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It looks like Johns is finally trying to rectify that with the current arc, actually. I'm hoping it's good and actually features Hal confronting his deeds as Parallax rather than just shrugging them off and telling people the demon made him do it. Otherwise, I may just drop GL altogether. With Ion and the upcoming GLC ongoing, I don't really need a Hal-centric book.

 

[The Question]

Yeah. That would be most crappy. Hell, were I to ever get a shot at writing Green Lantern, I'd just retcon away the whole fear demon thing and just say it was something he subconsciously conjured up as The Spectre to take away his guilt. Possibly influenced by an amped up Psycho Pirate to manipulate events so that The Spectre would become hosteless, and Alexander Luthor would be able to manipulate it.

 

[JesusOfNazarath]

I thought the Speed Force was gone though.