The Official Flash Thread

[Kevin Smith]

More for you...

Spoiler

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Originally Posted by Blackman

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1. Barry Allen is the DEFINITIVE Flash. 20 years ago. Wally is the Flash of the current generation





Umm...Not to me, and I grew up with Wally stories, I was born post crisis. And did you see why I said he is the definitive Flash? It wasn't because of his emoluments or accomplishments or the longevity of his time as Flash, it was because:





Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Barry Allen is all about speed which is what The Flash is supposed to be about. He matches the powers. Everything about him literally is about speed and its related forms. His whole life is about speed. That's the premise of his comics, and in the age of technology where everyone wants everything instantly, instant communications, etc, speed is an incredibly relevant concept. Barry Allen is slow, The Flash is fast. That is the character.



Now I know that people like Wally West because he took over for Barry (and acts like a less jerky Anakin Skywalker) and I don't mean any disrespect to the character because frankly, despite my Barry fandom, I do like Wally too, but The Flash was never supposed to be about a guy trying to fill a dead guy's boots (which is a cool concept, it works for Wally and Bucky and will probably work for Robin, but honestly, what else were they gonna do with the "legacy" characters?). The Flash was always supposed to be about speed. That's what the character is supposed to be about, that's what the book was always supposed to be about (which is a fact I think people have forgotten or are just completely oblivious to with Wally and the legacy aspect so prevelant in the last few years), and that's what the movie needs to be about: the fastest man alive. And that man is Barry Allen.



Had he not been late for work/everything else, he would not have had to work late in the forensics lab to make up for lost time the night he got hit by lightning/electrically charged chemicals (at age 24) and gained superspeed. Barry Allen is essentially fast because he is slow. He goes from being the guy everyone is waiting on to the guy waiting for everyone else. In a more complex sense, this is like how Jon Osterman became Doctor Manhattan in Watchmen, because he was a watchmaker and could reassemble things. That is what makes Barry Allen the definitive Flash, it's not his accomplishments, it's not his emoluments, it's not the fact that he was The Flash longer than anyone else, it's not that he's the iconic/greatest Flash that makes him the definitive Flash, Barry Allen is the definitive Flash because he is the only one who is all about speed. He is fast because he is slow. He's all about speed. No other Flash has that. Barry Allen is to Flash as Hal Jordan is to Green Lantern.








I respect your opinion, but I'm beginning to doubt your comprehension skills.







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2. Barry Allen is the only MAJOR DC characters to have powers because of an accident. That doesn't mean anything to why he is better, but it is true




It's part of what makes him unique. And it was...original when he did it. Not so much with Wally.







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3. Barry Allen is the only MAJOR DC character to have his powers because of his FLAWS. Hal Jordan





How exactly? Hal Jordan has the ring because he is honest and brave, those are his good character traits. Hal Jordan's major character flaw is that he is selfish. He was the first comic book character (Or DC character at least) to have used his powers for selfish reasons (trying to get Carol to fall in love with him) and personal gain. Part of what lead to his "demise" as Parallax.







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4. Barry Allen isn't bogged down by years of continuity and a legacy to scare new readers. He is his own person.

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??? Batman was held down by continuity but Nolan didn't care

Ummm...yeah. He did, and that's why he REBOOTED the Batman franchise and started at the BEGINNING. It brought in new fans because it was accessible to them. That's what needs to be done with The Flash.







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5. Barry Allen is the only Flash who has a PERSONAL LIFE. What are you talking about. Wally West gets married and has kids how is Barry the only one with a personal life?





Wally has a family life now, but I would hesitate to call it a "personal life" in the sense that we think of a "traditional" superhero's personal life. Everyone he socializes with knows he's The Flash. He's still the "full time superhero" more or less. If people wnat that kind of personal life they can read Fantsatic Four. But like Protocida said, Barry's had a personal life, a CONSISTANT one, since his inception. There isn't anything continuous or consistent about Wally.







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6. FORENSICS are COOL. So? Aot of the other superhero movies don't have forensics and they have been doing well so far





This is one of the reasons WHY Barry Allen is cool. The other superhero movies also aren't bogged down by years of continuity and their characters can stand on their own. Can't really say that for Wally West.







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7. Barry Allen is the GREATEST Flash. Not in most fan's opinions





It's pretty much an accepted thing when it comes to Flash. Whether you think he's the best or he's your favorite or not, Barry is acknowledged as the "greatest" Flash in the books and by fans. Wally thinks so. Barry was Batman's, Hal Jordan's, and Green Arrow's favorite Flash to name a few. He certainly accomplished most as Flash. How is he not the greatest Flash?







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8. Barry Allen is the FASTEST Flash. People think otherwise





And they can be wrong. [heheh]







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9. Barry Allen is INTELLIGENT. OK













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10. Barry Allen is witty and serious. SO is Wally. In fact Wally is funnier





If he is funnier than that would make him....less serious (as Proticida said, he isn't witty, he's wisecracking on a Spider-Man level which is a matter of perspective). If you prefer Wally's snarky Anakin Skywalker humor or Bart's sheer jackassery for your humorous heroics than that's fine by me and your opinion. I prefer Barry's intelligence and sarcasm and total bad-assery when it comes to fighting crime. That said, Wally is whinier than Barry. Probably the whiniest Flash. "I'm never gonna be the man Barry is" and statements like that were usually in Wally's stories a lot, especially the early ones.







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11. Great supporting cast. Wally has one or even Bart for that matter





They can't compare with Barry's. Wally has B-level Rogues of his own and "flame of the week" type romances (before Linda, a reporter, derived from Iris West which is why DC had Wally marry her). I hope you weren't serious when you brought up Bart.





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12. Great Rogues Gallery AS I said the other time, they are both so similar that it's wahtever





No, they aren't. All the iconic/great ones are either from Barry's Rogues Gallery or derived from them. Wally's Rogues - Magenta? Cicada? Tar Pit? Murmur? Girder? Double Down? Peek-a-Boo? Fallout? Brother Grimm? Do any of these guys even compare to Barry's classic Rogues Gallery?






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13. Barry's blue eyes just look better in the red and gold suit than green or yellow eyes. I'm serious. It goes perfect. ???





LOL. Matter of opinion. I still agree though.







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14. Barry Allen is the current/lead Flash. But the reception of him returning as the Flash has been mixed and he just returned





Returns are always mixed. There are people who will not like the book no matter how good the story is just because they don't like Barry, don't want him back, and don't want new Barry Allen stories, just like with Hal Jordan. The story is only starting, it's a small piece to a very large puzzle, why don't you read the issue and tell me what you think of it.







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15. Barry Allen has been The Flash LONGEST. And he also was dead the longest.





Another thing that makes him unique among superheroes. He's the only character, major or not, to have stayed dead for over 20 years. Way to go, Barry. Barry set the record for longest time on the sidelines even though his return was inevitable.







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16. Barry Allen is in the same league (pardon the pun) as Superman, Batman, and Hal Jordan. No sidekicks here. OK

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17. Barry Allen is the most compatible for movies and the way DC is doing things. It can go either way it depends on writer/director

Only if they "re-invent" or retcon Wally West in some way.







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18. HE IS AWESOME So Is Wally...or Jay or Bart





But Barry is more so. :P







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19. Barry Allen is The Flash who has been used most in alternate media in terms of story and character Ya but alot of those times he's just been Barry Allen by name, he has Wally personality





Comprehension skills again, man. Here it is for a fourth time:





Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Let's go through this again:



JL/JLU: Barry Allen in story with Wally West's name and appearance and Bart Allen's personality. They used Barry's story because it's the simplest to "get", i. e., not bogged down by legacy continuity and grew up with Barry/were most familiar with him, they used Wally's name and likenes at the end of season two because he was The Flash in the current comics which were very popular at the time because of Geoff Johns, and they used Bart's impulsive personality because they were originally going to use Impulse in the JLA instead of Flash because they were pitching the series to WB and WB likes mostly kid/teen characters in their shows. When they sold the show to Cartoon Network with a phone call they decided to use The Flash because he's such of a staple in the JLA and because they were doing CN and they don't mind cartoons with more adult protagonists, but they kept the personality so young kids would have someone to identify with.



The Batman: Barry Allen



That's an obvious one. He came from Central City, fought the silver age version of the Mirror Master, the silver age versions of GL, GA, and Hawkman and just about everyone else were used on the show, and Alan Burnett, who produces the show and wrote the episode, is a huge Barry Allen fan. Besides, how could it have been Wally or Bart when Robin who is clearly a child is Dick Grayson, and Grayson is the same age as Wally West/Wally's best friend?



The Flash TV show: Barry Allen with Wally West story elements



Read The Flash Companion. The writers/producers went with Barry for a number of reasons; his origin/job, he was the one they grew up with, and he seemed to have more humor than most of the other DC heroes. That's a direct quote. If you read it you'll see. The Wally elements that were used were Tina McGee and STAR labs because they needed someone for Flash to discuss his powers with and they needed another "pool" for stories. They had the forensics job as a story pool and the STAR labs thing as a story pool. In tv they need as many "story pools" as possible because they have so many episodes, so it's understandable that they did this. The writers put their own spin on a lot of things.



Justice League: The New Frontier: Barry Allen



DC Super Hero Cartoons from the 60s-80s: Barry Allen (Superfriends, the DC Filmation shows, etc)



1970s Legends of the Superpowers tv movie: Barry Allen



Crappy JLA tv show movie: A ****** version of Barry Allen a la "Friends"



So after looking back at that, guess who the creators of these shows find more interesting and accessible to audiences? That's right, Barry Allen.



That said, even if Wally's "mannerisms and personality" were used, what else would you expect? Barry was gone before it became custom to flesh out characters with "personalities" in comics, and has had runs by two of the greatest writers in comics. You're being unfair because Barry never had any of that at the time of any of these shows, yet the creators still used him and/or his story, so what does that say about how great a character he is? They need a great stand alone character and that is Barry Allen.











And Barry also has the movie "Catch me if You Can" with Tom Hanks and Leonardo Dicaprio, directed by Stephen Spielberg. Guess people in Hollywood prefer Barry as well.







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20. He's the BEST. People think otherwise

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And they can be wrong. :P



That bold print is getting annoying lol.

so....ya

Barry is like crack I'm glad it died out in the 80s.

Hmmm....what is crack, Barry Allen, and their relation to Blackman? He is more qualified to talk about crack than he is Barry Allen or even The Flash in general. You don't know jack **** about Barry Allen, as your previous posts have clearly shown, you don't even know that much about Wally West. You have uninformed god-forbid-I-call-it logic.

 

[Kevin Smith]

@Blackman

Now they bring him back in a crappy series that most fans dont like



He was cool now he just sucks

You haven't even read Rebirth. It's only had, what, like two issues out so far, and you're saying the story sucks? That's as stupid as getting up and leaving during the first fifteen minutes of a two hour movie because the story bothers you so far - a movie from people with a perfect track record, I might add. It's Geoff Johns, the greatest writer like...ever, who hasn't written a single piece of **** yet, and suddenly he sucks because he writes a character that you dislike and know NOTHING about? That's just biased to the nth degree.

Currently Barry Allen = FAIL

I would hesitate to call anything that has sold out three printings a "failure". Flash for the first time like ever, actually out sold not only Wolverine, but everything except Batman the month it came out.



http://speedforce.org/2009/05/rebirth-tops-sales/



Even the sitcom "Big Bang Theory" gave it a nod "the new Flash will knock your sox off" they said. Rebirth is a success.



Back in the comics heyday, The Flash (Barry Allen), was DC's third best selling book for over 12 years. Wally's books never had that kind of momentum, even at his peak when Waid was writing the book. He could never eclipse GL in sales. His last series sucked so much that the issues didn't even get reviews. And this is all with modern age, "character driven" writing.



Here's an interview with Geoff Johns on Barry Allen's portrayal in Rebirth so far:

Spoiler

Answering the concerns that Johns current portrayal of Barry Allen is so different from his Silver and Bronze Age characterization:



“Everyone is in a very different place at the beginning of Flash: Rebirth to the end, because I didn’t want to open up with a big Flash parade, and Barry running in with a big smile, I might as well have started with Flash #1 and we’d be off and running, but there were other emotional explorations with Barry Allen and the Flash team. I wanted to go against expectations and do a 180 on everything. Flash is back, but Barry Allen isn’t...that’s what the story is about...



“The great thing about it is it allows me to explore him emotionally... I love the discussion and debates, because I know where this story is going ...I remember when we did The Sinestro Corps Wars, and Kyle at the end of the first issue was possessed by Parallax. People went crazy! They couldn’t believe how we could do this (laughs) ...and Ethan was saying ‘We should tell them that he’s not going to be Parallax,’ and I said ‘No! Let them get riled up, because they should, but we know where this story ends.’ ... In Flash: Rebirth, Barry is searching for the same answers...this story is trying to solve a crime, but Barry is moving much too fast to do that.”



http://www.newsarama.com/comics/050921-WB-Geoff.html



and a lot more in the audio interview ( two flashes books after rebirth for example.. )



http://cdn3.libsyn.com/wordballoon/...02&nva=20090522120802&t=09f091319c833a157e5c4

People are all riled up over how Barry isn't acting like Barry and that's he's brooding. No ****. Of course he's brooding, he's

Spoiler

THE BLACK FLASH

, he isn't himself right now in the same way that Hal wasn't himeslf when he was Paralax. The Black Flash is the Paralax equivalent in The Flash universe, Barry Allen is the Hal Jordan equivelant in the Flash universe, this makes sense, this is about Barry Allen finding himself again the same way Rebirth was about Hal finding himself.



If you don't like it, don't read it, but I'm not going to listen to you ***** about how much you think a series "sucks" when you haven't even read it. Read it and write a cynical review if you feel that badly about it.



All I've ever seen you post is stuff from other people. You haven't said anything original on this topic yet, you leech of other people at this site who prefer Wally West (only) and you've grabbed quotes from other sites from people with similar views. You really don't know what you're talking about.

And the pics are meant to be a joke dont be so sensitive about them

co sign. And Kevin Smith is just being sensitive

I'm sorry, but you come into a thread and bash one of my favorite characters, a character that you know virtually nothing about, and I'm just supposed to sit there and listen to your reasonless crap and say nothing?

I mean I'm just having a laugh with the Allen fans. There jokes. DOnt get mad get even. Make posters like those for Wally West. I hope their funny

So in place of a sound, well reasoned argument, I have to post pictures with assinine captions as well? You've posted pictures because you have nothing to say and nothing to back up your argument.



How about this, I'll post well reasoned logic and some pictures with assinine captions to satisfy your intelligence as well.

Those are basically some my reasons for wanting Wally that and because hes funnier

and just because we have Hal as GL doesnt mean we need Barry as Flash.

Wrong. It does mean we have to have Barry as Flash. Barry is to Flash as Hal is to GL. That simple. That would be like doing a Thor and Iron Man origin movie to lead into Avengers and then doing a Captain America movie about Bucky Barnes. It just doesn't make sense. The new GL movie is an origin, starting at the beginning, the very successful Nolan Batman franchise is the same way, you know WW will be an origin, the next Superman will probably be a new take on the beginning, so why do we have to do a Flash film that's built on years of continuity on an outdated storyline?



That's why the new Star Trek was so successful, it didn't add to the already overwhelming continuity and instead started at the beginning and explained everything, how everyone got involved together, and that is what made the audience invest in those characters. No one would've went to see it or been interseted in it if it were Trek: Gen 100 or whatever. This lays the foundation, and the foundation needs to be laid for The Flash in order to get people interested as well.

In the DCAU Kyle Rayner is the first GL that Superman meets, also John Stewart had more interaction with Wally than Kyle or Hal. So the whole Silver Age thing I think is bogus.

The DCAU combined Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner. They used Hal's story but Kyle's name and job, that's how come it worked in the DCAU. It would not have worked if they had done just Kyle Rayner, just like The Flash was Wally West with Barry Allen's story. We have yet to see actual Kyle Rayner or Wally West in anything other than comic books and the reason for that is that they don't work unless they have the long, established continuity. That's why if they ever aappear in some alternate media they will always be hybrid characters and not themselves.

I respect that. Definetley Barry (played by Peter Krause) should get time in the movie. IMO he should appear in Flash backs or if Wally ever goes to into the speed force

That's nice but Barry is more than a prop, as you'd like to see him.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Wally is the fun Flash.

Is there some reason why Barry Allen or even any of the other Flashes can't be "fun" too? Even Jay Garrick on Batman: The Brave and The Bold was a "fun" Flash. It doesn't take much to make a guy who does everything fas "fun", what it's hard to do with someone like that is getting a story together where he isn't a joke but is a real person that people care about.

And how "fun" was Wally, angst ridden Wally, when he was always whining about how he wasn't Barry Allen and was never gonna be Barry Allen? Whiny Wally is "fun"? Have you ever read any of his comics?

Barry has always seemed more generic to me.

What do you know about Barry Allen? And how much modern writing has Barry had again? What, like two stories, and they weren't even all about him? I'm referring to New Frontier, of course, and that is an excellent Barry Allen story and exactly how he should be portrayed. And Rebirth just started. People said Hal was generic too and look who's getting the movie.

He's the kind of guy who will sell tickets and put butts in seats. Wally's hammy personality and sense of humor are what attracted me to the Flash character in the first place, which is why I'd prefer they use him over Barry.

Wally's snarky Anakin Skywalker humor is not enough to carry a movie. Good story and character deveopment, along with just enough fantastic elements (Wally's story pushes the latter's bounds entirely too much) will do that, quirky character traits are there to compliment that.

Honestly, the way some of you talk, it's like you want it to be a piece of **** kiddie joke-fest like Zoom or Sky High or even Fantastic Four.

And that stuff id great plus Wally...........

1) is a sidekick graduate, a story i find both compelling and original at least in comics2film

The sidekick dynamic will never be explored unless they find a way to make sidekicks cool, first, and if Barry isn't The Flash first. Wally's story cannot be done any justice unless Barry is established first, so it's better for everyone if they do a few films with Barry before shoe-horning his sidekick into his suit.

2) has a whole different brand of justice than Barry. He broke new ground working with the rogues especially Piper who became an ally and trickster who joined the FBI. Again, an aspect of vigilantism not exploited in comics2film yet.

A real "Rogues Gallery" like The Flash's has never been explored in film yet, either. When Barry was Flash, 3D relationships like the one with Wally and Piper were unheard of, and that was back when Piper wasn't gay and was just a "bad guy". And what's wrong with Barry's band of justice? Guilty or not guilty? That would work great on film too, I think.

and 3) The audience is smarter than people give them credit.

People are stupid. McDonald's has to put a sign up that says "please roll down window to speak" at their drive thru, people are stupid.

...but I understand what you are trying to say. ;-)

Anyone who thinks Barry should be chosen simply because he was first (even though he wasnt)

So who was the first scarlet speedster then? Who was the first person that wore Wally's costume and started the legacy Wally is always talking about? Surely not the guy in the Seargent York helmet with wings and pirate boots...

and he would tell the origin is wasting time. This information does not have to be spoonfed.

To not tell the origin and try to cram the whole damned legacy into the first film would be a waste of time because it would fail.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Blackman, I would just like to thank you for brining my de motivator to this part of the boards. And had a good chuckle at yours as well. t:

Kevin, I would like to state that Wally even though similar to Barry costume wise, is a completely different character from Barry Allen.

Yes, oddly enough, he is.

But the similarities are too close for comfort:

His origin is an exact copy of Barry's, and that sucks, he's like a "mini me" Barry Allen, he has a reporter girlfriend, he had a police job and secret identity, a Kid Flash of his own, a Reverse Flash of his own, if there's a "poor man's version" of anything, it's Wally West. There isn't anything that Wally did that Barry hasn't done better - better in at least one way because it was original when he did it.

And, you are correct in saying that Wally wouldn't have become the Flash if it wasn't for Barry, does that make him any less of a character? No. In fact, to me and many other fans we feel this makes him an even stronger character in our eyes.

If sidekicks pretending to be their mentors, like Bucky Cap and Wally West and now Robin Batman, is what floats you boat, then that's cool and I respect your opinion. I prefer the real thing instead of the imitation brand.

See, one of the main reasons I don't want to see Barry Allen in the next movie is because he seems far to generic in his approach to the superhero genre. I mean, origin movies are great and all, but we are getting that with Green Lantern, Captain America, Thor etc. why not have something more fresh? This is one of the main reasons I think Wally should be the main character.

If it's working with them then don't you think we should maybe follow the recipe for success? Especially if there are any intentions of the DC characters leading into a JLA movie, wouldn't they need to be compatible?

You'd have an origin story with Wally either way you look at it. You want it to be about Wally graduating from Kid Flash to Flash, isn't that the origin for how Wally became Flash? Barry or Waly, it's still an origin flick, with Wally it's more convulted and cofusing, still an origin, just more complex (in the bad sense) and much more to explain, more characters to cram in, everyone benefits if they do it with Barry first.

So don't tell me they shouldn't do a "generic" origin with Barry because you don't want to see an "origin" when you will except another "generic origin" (but much more complicated) with a Wally West film.

You can still have Barry Allen in the movie of course, his death being the main reason Wally takes up the mantle of the Flash. In fact, perhaps auidences will find the short time we see Mr. Allen in the film a memorable one in his short but legendary screen time?

Oh, that's great, have Barry be the "Uncle Ben" in a Wally movie. Umm, no, that SUCKS, because Barry is much more than just an "Uncle ben" figure in story and as a publication material, and he deserves better than that. Sorry if that's all you see him as.

More can be done with both Wally and Barry before cramming Wally into Barry's outfit and having Barry bite the big one.

They could use Wally in a few Teen Titans movies while Barry gets established as Flash, so when the time comes, you'l have these charactesr already established and the stories will be unlimited from there.

Next to Batman and Superman, Wally's Flash rounds out my top 3 DC heroes. He's got much more personality than Barry,

How many Barry Allen stories have you read again? And hasn't Wally had two runs by two of the greatest writers in modern comics? How much of that has Barry had? What, Rebirth is just starting? Yeah.

and I find him to be all around much more likeable. If they're going to do a Flash movie, they should do it about Wally. They could just go the route of the 90's show and Justice League, and have movie Wally be sort of be an amalgamation of the various Flashes, but if they have to keep the Barry fans happy then they could do a story where Barry dies at the beginning, at Wally rises to the occasion and takes his place.

Having Wally as an amalgamation like JL/JLU would not require Barry dying at all, as Wally would most likely have Barry's story like in the afformentioned show.

And even so, killing Barry at the begining, not even the end, of a story is NOT a way to keep Barry fans happy. That's incredibly stupid. We're supposed to be happy about that? That's like doing a Captain America movie where Steve Rogers is shot within the first ten minutes and the rest of the film is about Bucky taking over. Who wants to see that? (you probably do)

It'd certainly be different for an origin movie to show the torch being passed from one generation of hero to the next, which until now has only been seen in Mask of Zorro and hinted at in Watchmen.

Zorro didn't have years of continuity that they had to cram into one movie. That legacy was created just for the film. I don't need to tell you how different the case is for The Flash. Even in Watchmen, Hollis Mason was created as a legacy character. There isn't a series that featured the Hollis Mason Nite Owl that ran for years and was canceled that gave way to the Dan Dreiberg version, those legacies were tailor made just for that particular story. It's a lut different than having Dick Grayson put on Bruce Wayne's Batman suit or Kid Flash step into Barry's suit.

It could potentially be a great way to give the movie its own unique flavor, rather than being a typical Spider-Man type flick. Like, what does it mean to take over the hero gig of someone else? What kind of expectations do people have for you, and will you be able to step out of your predecessor's shadow?

People won't have any expectations for Wally and he won't have a shadow to move out of or "standard" to reach if the audience is completely unfamiliar with Barry Allen, if he isn't established. That's why that drama worked in the comics originally because everyone knew who Barry was and was comparing Wally to him, Wally had a lot to live up to because his readers held him to it because they were so familiar with barry Allen. Same with Bucky Cap, same with Robin Batman, even the same with Kyle GL.

Barry needs to be firmly established first in order to tell the best Wally story. Now there are those who will say that because Barry is Flash now, Wally's story is outdated and therefore shouldn't be told on film, I disagree; good stories are NEVER outdated. And the story of a sidekick becoming a superhero is a good story that needs to be told (same with the greatest hero turning to the dark side and then redeeming himself, like Hal Jordan), but it won't be good without the continuity and momentum behind it, without Barry Allen being established. Everyone wins if they do a film about Barry Allen first.

These are some interesting topics that don't really get addressed in most Superhero flicks, and I think they could be used to the Flash movie's benefit.

Also, if The Flash is established as having been a pre-existing Superhero, we can skip the typical nonsense about the main character having to invent his superhero persona and acquiring a costume. One of the most annoying things about Fantastic 4 (aside from the overall lack of quality) was just how by-the-numbers everything about it was. If Flash has a way to just skip over the questions like "where does he get the costume from?" and stuff like that, it could be to the movie's advantage.

Superman Returns tried to do that, build on "continuity", and look how that turned out. You can't just expect an audience to know these things, they want to know "why?", and the answer doesn't have to be boring, films like Iron Man and Spider-Man and batman Begins and even the new Star Trek proved that.

Sure, the first Batman film in 89 did that to some extent, but Batman was already a household name. The Flash isn't. The Flash isn't as big as Batman. He's never been properly explored, these things have never been asked about The Flash before. So when the movies introduce a new character, the audience should become invested in him, and grow with the character, it worked great in Iron Man and those other films I mentioned. There are five original ideas in the world, the way to be original is how you tell those ideas. There's no reason why The Flash has to feel "generic" at all.

That's a joke right? Barry didn't even know the speed force existed until recently. He probably has showed the least amount of control over it besides Jay.

Barry was aware of it, he just never called it "speed force", he sees it in scientific terms, as shown in Rebirth #1. He's smarter than that. :-P

Nah... You can't top Wally!

Wow. A clip from a show that used a Flash who called himeslf Wally West but wasn't anything like the comics version of him....

 

[Timstuff]

Dang, you've really got an ax to grind with the whole Barry / Wally debate...

 

[Kevin Smith]

Dang, you've really got an ax to grind with the whole Barry / Wally debate...

LOL. You have no idea. Just want people to be informed. Maybe READ something, do some research for themselves.

Apologies if I was verbose.

And it's nothing against anyone, just their opinions. lol.

 

[Flash Facts]

Star Trek did build on continuity.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

Didn't Star Trek start over?

 

[ChickenScratch]

That's a joke right? Barry didn't even know the speed force existed until recently. He probably has showed the least amount of control over it besides Jay.

Ever read a Flash comic? He understood it way more than Wally who saw it as a mystical "speed force" rather than totally understanding how it works ... you know from being a scientist. It's stated over and over in the comics that Barry is faster, had total mastery of the abilities, vibrate through solids (when Wally does it they explode!).

Or maybe read "The Flash: Stop Motion by Mark Schultz when a being from the speed force escapes and beats Wally's ass all over the planet and the only way he could stop it was by temporarily going into the speed force where he was temporarily given full mastery of it (by Barry) so he could trap the being. But then fully mastery was taken away because he had to learn them himself.

Barry's the master, Wally''s an entertaining novice

 

[Flash Facts]

Didn't Star Trek start over?

Not really. Did you see it? Don't read if you didn't.

Spoiler

Its a divergent time line

I have read just about every issue of Wally's run, some of Barry's, and some of Jay's and I disagree

 

[The Guard]

Bah.

 

[The Guard]

I wish people who knew squat about Flash mythology would stop telling other people how to adapt the mythology. This one VS the other thing is the complete wrong approach.

There is no reason Barry Allen and Wally West and even Jay Garrick can't all get their due in a Flash franchise. Especially with time travel elements involved.

 

[MadVillainy]

That's funny. Post a pic of a guy named Barry.







Your "argument", which I tore to shreds weeks ago, that you still haven't responded to? That argument?



A gentle reminder:

Spoiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackman

10 reasons for Wally

1. The Flash of this generation (Been the Flash for about the last 20 years)



That's nothing. Barry was Flash for over thirty years and is adding to it. Wally's worn his costume for the last 20, so what?





Quote:

2. Just to reply to your job thing, his job is more relatable to people. One of the first heroes not to have a "cool" job (mechanic)

DC doesn't know what to do with Wally. Wally has been everything. A millionaire, poor, an occasional mechanic, and now he's jobless and has a family to support. DC tried hard to turn him into Barry with the reporter girlfriend and wife, a secret identity and police job, a Kid Flash of his own, his own Zoom, even brought back the original suit sans the belt and Iris, but it didn't work. Enter present situation.





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3. Hes has the weight of a legacy on his shoulder built by two other heroes

He has Barry's legacy, not Jay's. Barry doesn't even have Jay's. The legacy Wally is talking about is clearly Barry's, he's dressed up like Barry, was trained by Barry, is related to Barry, etc. Barry was inspired by Jay. Inspiration and legacy aren't even synonyms.





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4. Is the fastest Flash according to dc database and flash wiki

That's bullcrap. Wally has never surpassed Barry in speed. Wally has never ran over what Barry ran in COIE. And wiki can be edited to say anything you want.





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5. He's funnier and clearly more interesting since most Flash media (tv shows, etc.) have only been Barry Allen by name but have used the mannerisms and personality of Wally

"most Flash media"? Seriously? The REAL Wally West doesn't have a single alternate media appearence that he can call his own. When have they ever delved into the "legacy" and Wally's origin and his history as Kid Flash that makes him so "specia"l?



Let's go through this again:



JL/JLU: Barry Allen in story with Wally West's name and appearance and Bart Allen's personality. They used Barry's story because it's the simplest to "get", i. e., not bogged down by legacy continuity and grew up with Barry/were most familiar with him, they used Wally's name and likenes at the end of season two because he was The Flash in the current comics which were very popular at the time because of Geoff Johns, and they used Bart's impulsive personality because they were originally going to use Impulse in the JLA instead of Flash because they were pitching the series to WB and WB likes mostly kid/teen characters in their shows. When they sold the show to Cartoon Network with a phone call they decided to use The Flash because he's such of a staple in the JLA and because they were doing CN and they don't mind cartoons with more adult protagonists, but they kept the personality so young kids would have someone to identify with.



The Batman: Barry Allen



That's an obvious one. He came from Central City, fought the silver age version of the Mirror Master, the silver age versions of GL, GA, and Hawkman and just about everyone else were used on the show, and Alan Burnett, who produces the show and wrote the episode, is a huge Barry Allen fan. Besides, how could it have been Wally or Bart when Robin who is clearly a child is Dick Grayson, and Grayson is the same age as Wally West/Wally's best friend?



The Flash TV show: Barry Allen with Wally West story elements



Read The Flash Companion. The writers/producers went with Barry for a number of reasons; his origin/job, he was the one they grew up with, and he seemed to have more humor than most of the other DC heroes. That's a direct quote. If you read it you'll see. The Wally elements that were used were Tina McGee and STAR labs because they needed someone for Flash to discuss his powers with and they needed another "pool" for stories. They had the forensics job as a story pool and the STAR labs thing as a story pool. In tv they need as many "story pools" as possible because they have so many episodes, so it's understandable that they did this. The writers put their own spin on a lot of things.



Justice League: The New Frontier: Barry Allen



DC Super Hero Cartoons from the 60s-80s: Barry Allen (Superfriends, the DC Filmation shows, etc)



1970s Legends of the Superpowers tv movie: Barry Allen



Crappy JLA tv show movie: A ****** version of Barry Allen a la "Friends"



So after looking back at that, guess who the creators of these shows find more interesting and accessible to audiences? That's right, Barry Allen.



That said, even if Wally's "mannerisms and personality" were used, what else would you expect? Barry was gone before it became custom to flesh out characters with "personalities" in comics, and has had runs by two of the greatest writers in comics. You're being unfair because Barry never had any of that at the time of any of these shows, yet the creators still used him and/or his story, so what does that say about how great a character he is? They need a great stand alone character and that is Barry Allen.







Quote:

6. Their Rogue galleries would be a tie

The Rogues you're talking about are all Barry's Rogues or are derived from them in the same way the suit Wally's wearing is Barry's. How many of Wally's "Rogues", enemies that he didn't "inherit" from Barry or enemies that aren't derived from Barry's Rogues do you know of that are "great" and "iconic" and would be great for a movie? Magenta? Cicada? Tar Pit? Murmur? Girder? Double Down? Peek-a-Boo? Fallout? Brother Grimm? Do any of these guys even compare to Barry's classic Rogues Gallery?



Wally wasn't even allowed to fight any of Barry's Rogues for the longest time because of the stupid DC editorial mandate that "everything old isn't cool". It wasn't until Johns got on the book, Johns, who had read all of the silver age Flash stories and new what great potential the Rogues had that they really got interesting. He brought them all back, even if there were some new faces under the garb like Captain Boomerang and Mirror Master. He really wanted to use Zoom but DC said he couldn't, so he asked if he could create a new Zoom, and so he did. Now Johns has complete access to ALL the characters he wanted to write originally but couldn't and he no longer has to write characters derived from them.





Quote:

except Wally's reverse flash (Zoom) isnt some time traveling guy who made it so that when he wears the suit it gives him superspeed.

Neither is Barry's Zoom. He has super speed powers of his own.





Quote:

Wally's Zoom is a former friend of Wally and a mentally sick guy who doesnt want to kill Wally, but make him a better hero by giving him a tragedy; he's like a crazed fanboy

Have you ever read any Eobard Thawne Reverse Flash stories? The guy wanted to be Barry Allen. This is very evident especially in Mark Waid's Return of Barry Allen story, which is a great Wally story, and even better Flash story, but a dissappointment if you think the real Barry Allen is back in it lol.





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7. He is more liked by fans. Check the scoreboard here and most other sights (yahoo answers, etc.) and he is more of a fan favorite

Actually, I'm quite impressed by the score boards. I've been watching them since the start, and Barry usually has an average of about 20 or so votes behind Wally. This is very impressive considering half my generation has never read a Barry Allen story and half the people who voted are only familiar with the JL/JLU cartoon (evident especially in the very first post). Barry has been gone for 23 years and we've had 22 years of Wally stories with runs by two great writers with a little Bart, it's amazing that Barry still has this kind of fandom despite being out of public knowledge for so long and Wally being the "better" (sarcasm) and (then)current Flash. I think it speaks volumes about how great the character is, and am proud of the score boards when everthing is considered.





Quote:

especially since the mediocre reviews of Flash: Rebirth

"mediocre"? They've been anything but. How about this; Wally's last few issues have been so "mediocre" that no one has reviewed them save a few die hard fans.



Here's some thoughts from major sites that reviewed the book:



IGN has two reviews, one by a Flash fan (7/10 stars) and one by a new reader (9/10). “it has been a while since I’ve read a comic which drew me into the characters and presented the DCU as a living, breathing entity as well as Rebirth #1″



The Absorbascon - “the most important superhero comic book in the last 20 years.”



Comic Book Resources - “it has definitely set up a more interesting character dynamic than Green Lantern ever did. Each Flash is directly vested in the others’ lives, so jealousy and admiration aren’t just convenient personality traits, they’re clearly paving the way for some intense stuff down the road.”



iFanboy Pick of the Week - “The opening pages read like a checklist, addressing everything that needed to be addressed with an efficiency and skill so sleek that I was honestly a little awestruck.”



iFanboy’s kwisdumb - while I might not agree with the return of characters like these, it’s obvious to me that a masterful story is being told here”



Newsarama’s Best Shots Extra - “this is a series that I think is just coming out of first gear, and is going to be revving its way through the next few issues.”



Weekly Comic Book Review - “Geoff Johns creates a strong, compelling narrative of life, post-Crisis for Barry Allen.”



Giant Size Man-Thing: New Comics - “This issue did what it needed to do, which was to help me finally remember which one is Barry and which one is Wally”



Rokk’s Comic Book Revolution - “Johns pulls off plenty of nice character work. It is obvious that Johns loves and understands the various members of the Flash family.”



Pendragon’s Post - “For all the new readers who want to get into The Flash series, and those who love a good detective story, this book is for you.”



Digital College - “Johns is the perfect person to write this book ( and just about every other DC book for the most part). He introduces readers who might be foreign to Barry Allen and gives a brief update on his origin.”



The Source Wall - “My favorite moments come when Barry and Hal meet at the Flash Museum.”



Tpull’s Weekly DC Comics Review - “I could go on, but I won’t. I’ll just say the obvious: best read of the week.”

Bureau 42 - “High Point… ‘The world’s finally catching up.’”



Alternate Reality - “Van Sciver’s art is terrific, and Johns is a master story teller. I think Johns could make the three little pigs into a top ten comic; the guy’s just good at his craft.”



Ain’t It Cool News - “It’s often said that the devil is in the details, but Johns and Van Sciver have proven yet again sometimes the details are the most delectable part of the story.”



And I'll post my review of it sometime as well. "mediocre" deez nuts. This is Geoff Johns, man.







Quote:

8. Wally is different. Barry just seems like hes from the average superhero cookie cutter

Yawn. Hear this one all the time. Wally is different because he has great modern age writing. Everyone was cookie cutter once, even Wally and Batman. That said, Wally's origin story is still hokey. So is the Kid Flash stuff. It's not A-List in the same sense as Superman or Batman or GL.





Quote:

9. "Wally's personality matches his power. He is youthful even as a father. He works on fast cars, likes to run, he's a racer.

Read what I said about what makes Barry the definitive Flash. He is all about speed. Geoff Johns even said that with Barry at the forefront again, The Flash book will finally be about speed again. Wally is about trying to fill a dead guy's boots. Barry fits The Flash more than anyone.





Quote:

Barry Allen is a detective like Elongated Man." I read this on another site and I would have to agree

Barry is a completely different type of detective. He's a forensic scientist, and he's this in his civillain identity. He isn't a "superhero slueth". Remarks like this make me think people have never read a Barry Allen story. The Barry Allen Flash stories were always very science based. The mystery clashed with the science when Barry would be at his day job.



10. His "origin" story is so different from the average superheroes

Spoiler

You didn tear up any argument but if you helps you sleep at night then by all means
>snicker< Yeah, in the worst way. It's s complete rip off of Barry Allen's. It's a "mini me" version of Barry Allen and that sucks.

[/quote]

You didnt tear up any argument you just gave some good and some bogus replies but if it helps you function to think that your cool because you tore up someones comment on the net then by all means keep thinking that

 

[Octoberist]

to be honest, despite Wally being rad, I hope that you didn't already made your mind on Barry you know? If he IS the main Flash now, I'm not saying that you should like him but I think you need to maybe open your horizons. I think maybe just accepting him, and acknowledge him.

It's kinda like how people don't like Leo DeCapiro despite being a damn good actor NOW and never being in the tabloids. But people made up their minds about poor Leo years ago during his Titanic days.

 

[Timstuff]

I don't really follow comics that closely, but knowing DC, they'll probably realize how dumb they were for bringing back Barry before long. Just look at the mess that ensued when Selina Kyle became a mother and stopped being Catwoman... It was a big mess that for all intents and purposes ended with the baby being retconned out of the story, and Selina's status was restored. I wouldn't put money on Barry Allen replacing Wally for long if the fans react poorly to it.

There's a whole generation who grew up having the name "Wally West" being synonymous with the Flash character, and there's a reason why he's leading in the poll: a lot of people just plain like him better. I find Wally to be a much more interesting and all around fun character, whereas Barry seems like the generic version. You can argue till you're blue in the face that Barry was "the original" and that Wally simply took his gig, but as corny as it is to paraphrase Will Smith from Men In Black: he makes it look good.

Barry is not the definitive Flash in the same way that Hal Jordan is the definitive Green Lantern. Hal has the kind of maturity and sternness that one would expect from a member of an intergalactic police force, while Kyle Rayner was more of a teen fantasy-- the unappreciated geek who suddenly becomes important. For many superheroes that works, but within the context of the Green Lantern, I think it makes more sense for him to embody the attributes of a good cop, rather than using the Spider-Man archetype.

 

[Lane & Kent]

I don't care which Flash they use as long as it's a good movie.

 

[The Guard]

Generalizations don't help anything. They both made it look good, and they're both interesting characters with fantastic conflict and story possibilities. These two characters are intertwined. Fact is, Wally cannot exist without Barry, and Wally's presence enriches Barry's mythology. The same holds true for Jay Garrick. All of them need to be represented right off the bat. I hold out little hope for a Flash movie whose producers and creative types do not recognize this. And frankly, I'm disappointed that Flash fans don't know better at this point.

 

[Timstuff]

I think a passing of the torch story would be cool. We start out the movie with an established Barry Allen Flash, but he dies and his former sidekick has to take up his mantle. That would definitely give the movie an hook over most other superhero origin flicks, which follow a straight forward formula of the hero discovering his powers, learning how to use them, designing a costume, etc. There are a lot of really great places they could take a story like that.

 

[NotFadeAway]

I don't really follow comics that closely, but knowing DC, they'll probably realize how dumb they were for bringing back Barry before long. Just look at the mess that ensued when Selina Kyle became a mother and stopped being Catwoman... It was a big mess that for all intents and purposes ended with the baby being retconned out of the story, and Selina's status was restored. I wouldn't put money on Barry Allen replacing Wally for long if the fans react poorly to it.

There's a whole generation who grew up having the name "Wally West" being synonymous with the Flash character, and there's a reason why he's leading in the poll: a lot of people just plain like him better. I find Wally to be a much more interesting and all around fun character, whereas Barry seems like the generic version. You can argue till you're blue in the face that Barry was "the original" and that Wally simply took his gig, but as corny as it is to paraphrase Will Smith from Men In Black: he makes it look good.
Barry is not the definitive Flash in the same way that Hal Jordan is the definitive Green Lantern. Hal has the kind of maturity and sternness that one would expect from a member of an intergalactic police force, while Kyle Rayner was more of a teen fantasy-- the unappreciated geek who suddenly becomes important. For many superheroes that works, but within the context of the Green Lantern, I think it makes more sense for him to embody the attributes of a good cop, rather than using the Spider-Man archetype.

 

[NotFadeAway]

I've posted this elsewhere, thought I would again......

I might be biased as because I'm such a huge Wally West fan, but I have both said, a Flash film would stand out and be unique if it went the Mask of Zorro route, instead of the atypical superhero origin flick. I'd rather skip the creation of the superhero identity, costume, etc etc and jump right into the meaning of being a hero to the public, do I have what it takes, deep character stories. And I think having Jay Garrick in the film advising Wally would help even more. Another way to make a Flash film unique would be to establish the lineage and history of The Flash. Kind of like the Phantom, but ya know, actually good. I'd also fully make the viewer aware that there are different ways to tap into the speed force, Jay inhaling fumes and the lab chemicals that would give Barry and Wally there powers. I would work a storyline in with Jay being currently powerless, either that he was attacked and crippled because he didn't wear a mask as The Flash, obviously, or that he had his powers stolen. I've been trying to think up a way in which you could paint inhaling the fumes as a dangerous route into the speed force, and that it placed Jay's life at risk so he de-powered himself, and once Barry Allen gained his powers, he took up the mantle of his childhood hero, Jay Garrick as The Flash, so Jay searched him out and they formed both a partnership and a friendship.

For the first flick, I'd have Tina McGee as the main love interest. In yet another way to make a Flash film unique, I think it would be fun to really show the older girl, younger guy love story with the early twenties Wally courting the late twenties, early thirties divocree Tina. And it would lend itself to the film, with Tina being brought in secretly by Jay study Wally physically after gaining his powers, making sure his ok. I just loved the Wally/Tina relationship in the comics. And I would have Linda Park, played by Linda Park, in the film. As a television reporter, she would have dealt with Barry Allen as The Flash alot, and she would have liked him. But like the comics, once Wally became Flash, I would have her hound him about causing some form of damage, and then just work her into the film from there. Eventually, over the course of a few films, Wally and Tina wouldn't work out and Linda would become the main love interest. I would have Amy Acker play Tina McGee.

For my villian, I would use an amalgamation of all the Reverse Flashes. Well, it would really just be a combination of The Rival and Zoom. In my story, thats who would kill Barry, and throughout the film, this reverse flash would at times pose as The Flash, completely crapping all over and making a mockery out of Barry's legacy. I think that showing how that effects and angers Wally, who is also battling his own self doubt and skepticism about himself as The Flash, would make for a great movie. Plus, I think going this route, I could turn this particular version of the Reverse Flash into a very, very, very, dispised villian. I'm all about making the audience hating the very ground the villian walks on.

In my sequel, I'd completely Godfather 2. Wally, as The Flash, would battle the rogues, and in flashbacks, I'd show Barry Allen taking on and defeating the rogues members individually, along with other trials faced by Barry that Wally is now going through.

Third film, Flash vs. Deathstroke. Nuff said.....

I know some of this breaks from the comics, but it keeps everything very similiar at heart, and thats key to adpating a superhero to the big screen.

As far as casting Wally West, there are actually alot of good candidates out there. I've already said I'd have Amy Acker as Tina, Linda Park as Linda Park, Peter Krause as Barry Allen, and Mark Harmon as Jay Garrick.

 

[The Guard]

I don't really follow comics that closely, but knowing DC, they'll probably realize how dumb they were for bringing back Barry before long. Just look at the mess that ensued when Selina Kyle became a mother and stopped being Catwoman... It was a big mess that for all intents and purposes ended with the baby being retconned out of the story, and Selina's status was restored. I wouldn't put money on Barry Allen replacing Wally for long if the fans react poorly to it.

They're likely not replacing Wally with Barry. The key members of the Flash family (don't be surprised if they find a way to bring back Impulse as well) will soon be back together. It's a theme that's been going on throughout the DC Universe, with all the relative Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and other "families" (the Green Lantern Corps, etc) coming back to the forefront VS solo stories. Even J'onn J'onnz has a daughter now.

There's a whole generation who grew up having the name "Wally West" being synonymous with the Flash character, and there's a reason why he's leading in the poll: a lot of people just plain like him better. I find Wally to be a much more interesting and all around fun character, whereas Barry seems like the generic version. You can argue till you're blue in the face that Barry was "the original" and that Wally simply took his gig, but as corny as it is to paraphrase Will Smith from Men In Black: he makes it look good.

Barry made it look plenty good. A lot of the people who insist there's this massive differnece between Barry and Wally's Flashes clearly just didn't read many Flash stories with Barry Allen in them. That, or they don't remember them. Wally is slightly more wisecracking (and I do mean slightly), he seems to be a lot more insecure from time to time, and he has delved deeper into the Speed Force than Barry did. Those are really the main differences between them, other than Barry's superior intelligence. They both highly value family highly and loved their jobs.

Barry is not the definitive Flash in the same way that Hal Jordan is the definitive Green Lantern.

What does that even mean?

Hal has the kind of maturity and sternness that one would expect from a member of an intergalactic police force, while Kyle Rayner was more of a teen fantasy-- the unappreciated geek who suddenly becomes important.

I realize you're not a huge comics follower, but that is a woeful misunderstanding of Kyle Rayner's role in the Green Lantern mythology. Frankly, Kyle's become almost as important to the mythology as Hal has. They, like Barry and Wally, are intertwined as characters.

 

[MadVillainy]

I agree with what most ppl say about a passing the torch movie being more interesting. Makes for more then a generic superhero movie. But if they do end up doing a passing the torch movie, they need to have Mary Louise Parker play Iris West

@ KEvin Smith: Its really not that serious that you need to write these long post about your argument

 

[Kevin Smith]

I wish people who knew squat about Flash mythology would stop telling other people how to adapt the mythology. This one VS the other thing is the complete wrong approach.

There is no reason Barry Allen and Wally West and even Jay Garrick can't all get their due in a Flash franchise. Especially with time travel elements involved.

Listen, buddy, I know you're probably tired of all this *****ing. I am too. But who would you prefer to tell the film makers how to adapt the properties? Someone who has no idea what they're talking about?

I say there is room for all but everyone benefits if they do a Barry film or two first. That's all I'm sayin'.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I don't really follow comics that closely, but knowing DC, they'll probably realize how dumb they were for bringing back Barry before long. Just look at the mess that ensued when Selina Kyle became a mother and stopped being Catwoman... It was a big mess that for all intents and purposes ended with the baby being retconned out of the story, and Selina's status was restored.

Bringing back Barry was going to happen at some point. It was inevitable. Any major leading character who is dead in comics is really only on the sidelines of the game. From the moment DC decided to kill him they knew that he would be back, just like they know that Bruce Wayne (Batman!) will be back, just like Hal Jordan came back, just like Ollie Queen came back, just like Ray Palmer came back, and just like Marvel knows Steve Rogers will be back. The characters that should have stayed dead are the ones that sucked and no one liked, like Bucky Barnes and Jason Todd to name a few. Yes, they were sidekicks. They have that in common with your boy Wally.

Barry Allen has a large following (he's always been used in alternate media, even the Stephen Speilberg film "Catch me if you can" has references to Barry, Barry is also the only Flash to have a song written about him), so he already has an established fanbase, plus the newcomers that will be just getting into Flash with Rebirth and the new Flash series later this year. Rebirth is already a success. Barry is a much better character than Catwoman and this is Geoff Johns writing him and DC has been working towards ressurecting Barry for a very long time, you are crazy if you think they will "off him" again because of a few whiny Wally fans who really have nothing to complain about. Do you know how long it took Wally to really catch on with Flash fans? Years and years. Not until Waid was half way through his run on the book.

I wouldn't put money on Barry Allen replacing Wally for long if the fans react poorly to it.

Barry isn't replacing anyone, first of all. And secondly, he would be reclaiming his rightful place as The Flash. It's his suit, his Rogues, his book, Wally replaced him. Without Barry there is no Wally.

Thirdly, Wally is getting a new costume. Something he should have been given a long time ago to establish his own identity. Adding an arrow that points to the dick (or lack thereof) area on a suit does not make it yours (besides, Barry wore it on the Flash tv show first). So Wally isn't going anywhere. Are you a Wally West fan or a Flash fan? Or both?

There's a whole generation who grew up having the name "Wally West" being synonymous with the Flash character,

Also a generation that has grown up with Barry Allen being synonymous with The Flash character, and Barry was Flash longer than anyone. Probably why he has all the alternate media appearances.

and there's a reason why he's leading in the poll: a lot of people just plain like him better.

Actually, I'm quite impressed by the score boards. I've been watching them since the start, and Barry usually has an average of about 20 or so votes behind Wally. This is very impressive considering half my generation has never read a Barry Allen story and half the people who voted are only familiar with the JL/JLU cartoon (evident especially in the very first post). Barry has been gone for 23 years and we've had 22 years of Wally stories with runs by two great writers with a little Bart, it's amazing that Barry still has this kind of fandom despite being out of public knowledge for so long and Wally being the "better" (sarcasm) and (then)current Flash. I think it speaks volumes about how great the character is, and am proud of the score boards when everthing is considered. So most the people vote for Wally cuz they just don't know any better. They like him better because they don't know anyone else.

I find Wally to be a much more interesting and all around fun character, whereas Barry seems like the generic version.

That's fine and you can think whatever you want, but how much of Barry Allen have you read again, exactly? I've grown up with Wally West and read all of his stories, but Barry Allen is still my favorite and the greatest Flash. Most the people on here have not read up on Barry like I have on Wally before blasting how much better Wally is than Barry.

You can argue till you're blue in the face that Barry was "the original" and that Wally simply took his gig, but as corny as it is to paraphrase Will Smith from Men In Black: he makes it look good.

I'm sorry, Barry made it look bad how, exactly? Barry held the book longer than anyone else, he's the greatest Flash and the iconic (yes, I'm calling it that) version, he sold more copies than anyone else and was DC's third best selling character behind Superman and Batman for over 12 years back in the comics heyday (Wally never had that kind of momentum, even at his peak when Waid was on the book), and Wally somehow made it "look good" or "better" how?

And Wally did take his gig. Wally is the wisecracking sidekick, he's just grown up now and dressed up like Flash. He's the Robin to Barry's Batman, and just like Robin, he is a wisecracking sidekick, only Robin has been through things that Wally hasn't been through and didn't have the "fun" and "compassionate" (or as compassionate anyway) mentor that Wally had, and that's what has shaped him into the Nightwing persona. Wally may have been the same way if not for Barry. But Wally has mantained his wisecracking sidekick-ness in adulthood. He's like Burt Ward now.

If Barry had rejected Wally, Wally would have ended up like Syndrome from the Incredibles. Think about it - like Syndrome, Wally was a tremendous fan of a superhero and wanted to meet him. He met his idol too. Barry, unlike Mr. Incredible, took Wally in as his sidekick. It's a pretty interesting parallel - Syndrome even has read hair and wisecracks like Wally and Barry even has blonde hair and blue eyes like Mr Incredible.

There isn't anything that Wally has or ever will do to surpass Barry Allen's achievements.

Barry is not the definitive Flash in the same way that Hal Jordan is the definitive Green Lantern.

Yes, Barry is. And here is why Barry Allen is the definitive Flash:

Spoiler

Barry Allen is all about speed which is what The Flash is supposed to be about. He matches the powers. Everything about him literally is about speed and its related forms. His whole life is about speed. That's the premise of his comics, and in the age of technology where everyone wants everything instantly, instant communications, etc, speed is an incredibly relevant concept. Barry Allen is slow, The Flash is fast. That is the character.

Now I know that people like Wally West because he took over for Barry (and acts like a less jerky Anakin Skywalker) and I don't mean any disrespect to the character because frankly, despite my Barry fandom, I do like Wally too, but The Flash was never supposed to be about a guy trying to fill a dead guy's boots (which is a cool concept, it works for Wally and Bucky and will probably work for Robin, but honestly, what else were they gonna do with the "legacy" characters?). The Flash was always supposed to be about speed. That's what the character is supposed to be about, that's what the book was always supposed to be about (which is a fact I think people have forgotten or are just completely oblivious to with Wally and the legacy aspect so prevelant in the last few years), and that's what the movie needs to be about: the fastest man alive. And that man is Barry Allen.

Had he not been late for work/everything else, he would not have had to work late in the forensics lab to make up for lost time the night he got hit by lightning/electrically charged chemicals (at age 24) and gained superspeed. Barry Allen is essentially fast because he is slow. He goes from being the guy everyone is waiting on to the guy waiting for everyone else. In a more complex sense, this is like how Jon Osterman became Doctor Manhattan in Watchmen, because he was a watchmaker and could reassemble things. That is what makes Barry Allen the definitive Flash, it's not his accomplishments, it's not his emoluments, it's not the fact that he was The Flash longer than anyone else, it's not that he's the iconic/greatest Flash that makes him the definitive Flash, Barry Allen is the definitive Flash because he is the only one who is all about speed. He is fast because he is slow. He's all about speed. No other Flash has that. Barry Allen is to Flash as Hal Jordan is to Green Lantern.

He is the definitive Flash because he is all about speed. Everything about him is about speed, and that is what The Flash is about, not about a guy taking over a dead guy's legacy, trying to fill his boots. He fits The Flash better than anyone.

Hal has the kind of maturity and sternness that one would expect from a member of an intergalactic police force, while Kyle Rayner was more of a teen fantasy-- the unappreciated geek who suddenly becomes important.

What do you think Wally West was? He was a kid/tween who wanted to be a superhero whose dream came true. He was as petulant and whiny and childish as could be when he became Flash. He was not quite the Barry rip-off he is today with the reporter wife and kids (but still a rip-off). Wally West is to Flash as Kyle Rayner and John Stewart is to GL.

 

[Webhead2006]

As i said before i dont know alot of the flash character besides the tv show/animated forms of the character and reading up on the character online. I would perfer to see barry get first film but if a director wanted to go with wally i would hope they wouldnt just merge barry and wally together and drop barry all together. They would need to work both in well or if its a barry film work wally in there somewhere to please wally fans.