The Official Flash Thread

[Mr. Earle]

Jay doesn't have to be shown at all actually, because he's about as important as Alan Scott is to GL. Don't get me wrong, I love him, but The Flash legacy we're talking about isn't his; it's Barry's. When Barry debuted as Flash Jay was pretty much gone, you didn't need to know him, he was irrelevant, new universe and all that. So again we have Barry's streamlined origin and no Jay. Jay didn't appear until years later in barry's book when he traveled to "earth 2", jay's dimension, by vibrating his molecules at a certain frequency he hadn't before accidentally. So it's cuz of Barry Jay was even brought back into the Flash book (as a publication material, the success of Barry Allen is what brought Jay in the books, and as a publication, the success of Jay in the forties is what prompted DC to reinvent Flash as Barry Allen).

Jay is just cool and he's part of the supporting cast, mostly Wally's if i am not mistaken.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I am not saying they should ignore his legacy, on the contrary i support this motion. But i dont want this overcomplicated time traveling nonsense. Like how Wally disappeared into another dimension, then came back because bart pissed in the speed force and he was the man that broke his father's condom so that his mother could get pregnant.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

I just hate all that. I understand that they have to do something new with the character each month, but it would be nice if every few years they threw out some of this stuff since in the end its more complicated than it needs to be.

Listen, all I'm saying is that that's one option for the first film, and at some point I would like to see Thawne. Just assume that anything far fetched, even by comic book standards (sans Wally's origin because that is an untouchable, IMO) you would leave out of the movie. When making a movie you look at the comics as a sort of trial and error for what worked, what people liked, what didn't work, and what people didn't like, and you try and carry the positive into the movies. That's exactly what you have to do with all this time travel stuff and the Flash character. For instance, I don't want to see Barry wearing a bow tie all the time because that's what he wore in his first appearance. That was the style in the fifties and sixties, I get it, it's not something that has to be carried over for the modern audience. Same goes for Wally's mullet.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Jay is just cool and he's part of the supporting cast, mostly Wally's if i am not mistaken.

Jay is cool, I agree, and you are mistaken he was part of Barry's waaaaaay before he was part of Wally's supporting cast and is better known as such. Max Mercury is more of Wally's supporting cast.

 

[flash13]

Jay was part of his own cast way before he was part of Barry's or Wally's.

 

[The Overlord]

I wasn't trying to "perfectly compare" Trek to Flash like they're the exact same damn thing.

Except your whole argument seems to be: "Time travel worked in the 11th Star Trek movie so it should work in the first Flash movie."

No, because the X-men aren't about time travel, silly. Star Trek is about space and the future, time travel has been a consistent thing in every version of Trek. The Flash is to time as GL is to space. Slow, fast, late, early, past, present...all these things are synonymous with speed and time which is what Flash is all about. Time/dimension travel are two of the biggest things The Flash is known for. Duh. I am beginning to think that YOU haven't read any of his comics either. Cuz when you make a Flash movie that's what it is about because that's the character.

Except the X-Men time traveled all the time in the 80s and 90s.

Did I say I was ever an expert on the Flash?

Besides there were tons of Flash stories that had nothing to do with time travel, how often has he time traveled when fighting the Rogues, so clearly it isn't that central to the character. I have read flash stories that don't involve time travel, so clearly they can make some movies without it.

You don't start off that way, you END that way. You start off with the normal life of Barry Allen. Time is supposedly simultaneous, there isn't any reason why Barry has to know his life has been affected by a time traveling enemy he hasn't even met yet. It should be just like a regular guy's life but as he becomes The Flash he realizes he exists between time and dimensions, and that his life isn't at all what it seems. But even so, the time travelling route was just one way they could go with a Barry Allen film. They don't ever have to acknowledge it, altho I would like them to at some point regardless of who is Flash because that's what the character is all about. So...checkmate. Zoom doesn't have to show up till like the third film if need be, so there's your continuity.

Except you said Prof Zoom can work or the first film, I still haven't seen you back that up.

You end that way in the last movie maybe, but not in the first one, because movie that's like putting all your cards on the table at once.

Have you read Flash: Rebirth? Because that's what I am talking about. If you haven't, go read it, and then get back to me on this subject. If you've read it this would be perfectly clear to you and you wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I don't care, what does that have to do with a movie, you still haven't explained why Flash rebirth is the perfect script for a movie. Are you going to tell every member of the general public who doesn't like a movie based on Rebirth to read the comic

Don't tell me to read the comics when we are talking about a movie, I shouldn't have to read ever comic about a character to understand their movie. You can't just make a movie for comic fans, you have to make for the general public as well.

You still haven' argued why Rebirth would translate into a good movie that will be enjoyed by the general public.

Well of course you do! He's probably the only version of Zoom you're familiar with, because I seem to be the only person who has done any research on any of this stuff before I post, even stuff that isn't my favorite.

No like him because he has more pathos then Mr. Puppy Eater and think with a few rewrites he would be a way less convoluted character in the movies.

 

[Mr. Earle]

When making a movie you look at the comics as a sort of trial and error for what worked, what people liked, what didn't work, and what people didn't like, and you try and carry the positive into the movies.

Jay was part of his own cast way before he was part of Barry's or Wally's.

You showed him!

 

[Evil Twin]

One thing I don't like about Prof. Zoom or Zoom is they really don't seem to have any goals other than to mess with the Flash. The lack of an outside goal I think limits their usefulness. And I think makes them totally unsuitable for "first movie" villains.

I think you want to see a hero be heroic first before you see him fight someone who's only goal is really just to tear them down. I think the Flash at least needs to save Central City, if not the world, a few times before you get that introverted.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Except your whole argument seems to be: "Time travel worked in the 11th Star Trek movie so it should work in the first Flash movie."

Similarities: Villain kills hero's parents at beginning of story. We don't know this guy is from another dimension/the future until the end, and even so, it doesn't matter because Kirk is still Captain of the Enterprise and Barry is still Flash/a forensic scientist. Thanwe killing Barry's mom and him still going into forensics/becoming The Flash is tantamount to Nero killing Kirk's dad and him still going to Starfleet and becoming Captain. Do you get it? The time travelling plot in Trek is very similar if not the same as it is in Flash. (if you would read the comics you would know that)

Except the X-Men time traveled all the time in the 80s and 90s.

X-Men are about outcasts and mutants and teen angst. The Flash is about speed/time.

Did I say I was ever an expert on the Flash?

Perhaps not but that is one of the core things the character is known for, and as a comics fan, especially one who thinks he can talk about Flash, you should know that.

Besides there were tons of Flash stories that had nothing to do with time travel, how often has he time traveled when fighting the Rogues, so clearly it isn't that central to the character. I have read flash stories that don't involve time travel, so clearly they can make some movies without it.

Ummm...that's because the Rogues are from OUR time period. And they can make movies about it but it's one of the defining things about the Flash. Gorilla City, Earth 2, the 25th century, end of time, etc, all these things are mainstays in almost any Flash book.

Except you said Prof Zoom can work or the first film, I still haven't seen you back that up.

I'm not a writer I said it could work cuz it ties into his origin. personally I want Mirror master for the first film and Thanwe later on. I'll explain how it could work in the first film later I don't have time now.

Spoiler

maybe you should just read the comics!

You end that way in the last movie maybe, but not in the first one, because movie that's like putting all your cards on the table at once.

No you don't. It's just the solving of one crime. Just cuz he killed his mom doesn't mean he won't be back to threaten his life or loved ones again, as he has done many times in the comics.

I don't care, what does that have to do with a movie, you still haven't explained why Flash rebirth is the perfect script for a movie. Are you going to tell every member of the general public who doesn't like a movie based on Rebirth to read the comic

I never said it was the perfect script for a movie! I was just acknowledging that there are some ideas in it that would translate well into movies.

Don't tell me to read the comics when we are talking about a movie, I shouldn't have to read ever comic about a character to understand their movie. You can't just make a movie for comic fans, you have to make for the general public as well.

We're talking about comics that movies will be based on, and if you want to talk about that then you should try reading them. you don't come into a thread about any character and say you think they should make the movies without knowing enough about them.

You still haven' argued why Rebirth would translate into a good movie that will be enjoyed by the general public.

Because that was never my argument. Barry's return would make a terrible first film.

 

[Kevin Smith]

One thing I don't like about Prof. Zoom or Zoom is they really don't seem to have any goals other than to mess with the Flash. The lack of an outside goal I think limits their usefulness. And I think makes them totally unsuitable for "first movie" villains.

I think you want to see a hero be heroic first before you see him fight someone who's only goal is really just to tear them down. I think the Flash at least needs to save Central City, if not the world, a few times before you get that introverted.

I agree.

 

[flash13]

Mirror Master is my pick for the villain too. Just do the Born to Run storyline and you get Barry, Wally, Iris and Mirror Master.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i would probably hold off zoom/professor zoom for 2nd/3rd film. I would go with mirror master, weather wizard, captain cold as first film foes. I dont know much on them but they all seem like solid villains who could hold a film solo against flash.

For the flash i still would want it to be barry to start off with. Have wally be a supporting character/minor character. Then as for jay i would be fine with saying jay was just a comic character/tv character, a past old hero, etc...

 

[Jahu-Momus]

I would like to see the Trickster. Especially the second one. But not in a large movie role, just a kind of annoying, keeps coming back guy no matter how many times you punch him. Otherwise, have Cold, Mirror Master, Heat Wave, Piper and maybe Weather Wizard. Don't know if a hand held all around weather f**k machine would be viable. Have all the villains be in a super mob, who come together to take down the Flash. And no time traveling! I know its part of the characters history, but time travel gets too messy and convoluted

 

[Webhead2006]

i would hold off doing a teaming of villains to at least second or 3rd film.

 

[The Overlord]

Similarities: Villain kills hero's parents at beginning of story. We don't know this guy is from another dimension/the future until the end, and even so, it doesn't matter because Kirk is still Captain of the Enterprise and Barry is still Flash/a forensic scientist. Thanwe killing Barry's mom and him still going into forensics/becoming The Flash is tantamount to Nero killing Kirk's dad and him still going to Starfleet and becoming Captain. Do you get it? The time travelling plot in Trek is very similar if not the same as it is in Flash. (if you would read the comics you would know that)

You are forgetting the fact Star Trek had several films to introduce the characters before they did this time travel

X-Men are about outcasts and mutants and teen angst. The Flash is about speed/time.

Except again time travel shows up all the time in the X-Men.

Perhaps not but that is one of the core things the character is known for, and as a comics fan, especially one who thinks he can talk about Flash, you should know that.

Except there are tons of stories that have no relation to time travel in the Flash, also sometimes it feels tacked on in some stories, I felt the time travelling was tacked on at the end of Rogue Wars

Ummm...that's because the Rogues are from OUR time period. And they can make movies about it but it's one of the defining things about the Flash. Gorilla City, Earth 2, the 25th century, end of time, etc, all these things are mainstays in almost any Flash book.

That doesn't mean all stuff works on the Silver screen.

I'm not a writer I said it could work cuz it ties into his origin. personally I want Mirror master for the first film and Thanwe later on. I'll explain how it could work in the first film later I don't have time now.

Spoiler

maybe you should just read the comics!

You can't keep on using that argument, because the general public wouldn't know anything about Flash and if use the wrong story and they decide they don't like it, you saying "read comics!" will not improve the box office revenue.

No you don't. It's just the solving of one crime. Just cuz he killed his mom doesn't mean he won't be back to threaten his life or loved ones again, as he has done many times in the comics.

That's not how it works in a movie, a movie if you are going to make a villain like that, the audience will want him dead by the end of the movie, you can't just reuse villains all the time like you do in the comic.

I never said it was the perfect script for a movie! I was just acknowledging that there are some ideas in it that would translate well into movies.

I haven't seen you prove that yet.

We're talking about comics that movies will be based on, and if you want to talk about that then you should try reading them. you don't come into a thread about any character and say you think they should make the movies without knowing enough about them.

No I'm talking about what works in a movie and what doesn't, you don't seem to get it through your skull that just because something works in comic book doesn't mean it works in a movie, especially if its as convoluted a concept as time travel.

Because that was never my argument. Barry's return would make a terrible first film.

Then why are brining up that series all the time?

 

[Jahu-Momus]

i would hold off doing a teaming of villains to at least second or 3rd film.

Why when his rogues are designed to work together in every storyline? They always work together because, unlike other rogues galleries, know that their enemy is most likely going to kick their butts in a solo fight. They are some of the smartest villains in comics today

 

[Octoberist]

I'd say make them team up in the first one.

I really think that The Flash as a film can get away with that, with its whimpsical nature. If they established a world that that's akin to a live action Incredibles, then by golly use do it.

I can't see how you can use any single 'Rogue' villain against The Flash, besides maybe Grodd or Zoom. The Trickster? By himself? No way.

 

[Evil Twin]

Yeah, the Rogues work well as a team. They have the same design sense, their motivations aren't deep enough that they require an elaborate exploration, their weaponry doesn't overlap and often works well in combination, their personalities are fun, and Mirror Master provides a convenient get away option for them.

Think Reservoir Dogs with super weaponry.

 

[MadVillainy]

Team up could work I think. Its not like Spiderman 3 where all the villains were separated until the end of the film. The ROgues move as one

So yeah it could work. I think I would like to see 1 Rogue in the first movie though

 

[Evil Twin]

I think Grodd, Zoom, and Vandal Savage could work solo. Possibly Mirror Master, Abra Kadabra, Kil G%re, The Shade, The Top (using the ghost of... period) and Dr. Alchemy with a little creativity. I'd have a hard time figuring out anyone else though.

 

[protocida]

I believe each Rogue had a solo career, save for eventual team-ups, back in the 60's. Only in the 2000's they became a criminal cabal.

 

[Jahu-Momus]

Captain Cold could work if he looked like a mix between the normal version and the New Frontier one. A simple heavy parka with the snow blind glasses are fine. He should be an intelligent man with extraordinary leadership skills

Mirror Master, I would be happier if he didn't have the freakishly powerful powers, but utilized more light illusions and holograms

Heat Wave, simply because he would be fun to do in a group dynamic with his obsessiveness with fire.

Only these three at first because it would take too long to develop all the characters

 

[MadVillainy]

No Grodd though

 

[Evil Twin]

I believe each Rogue had a solo career, save for eventual team-ups, back in the 60's. Only in the 2000's they became a criminal cabal.

That's true, although they started teaming up in the 60s and 70s on a semi-regular basis, so the 2000s didn't come out of nowhere. The Flash running the gantlet of rogues is a long standing tradition.

I tend to think that the Rogues just aren't "big" enough foes individually for a movie. Has an ice gun and robs banks is a little small scale, for instance. And perhaps repetitive. Not to mention it's clear that The Flash is more powerful and I think it's to a movies advantage to cast the hero as an underdog. Hence, some sort of team.

 

[The Overlord]

I'd say make them team up in the first one.

I really think that The Flash as a film can get away with that, with its whimpsical nature. If they established a world that that's akin to a live action Incredibles, then by golly use do it.

I can't see how you can use any single 'Rogue' villain against The Flash, besides maybe Grodd or Zoom. The Trickster? By himself? No way.

Maybe not Trickster, but perhaps Captain Cold, Mirror Master or Weather Wizard could have.

However you can make a team up with some of these guys, but you have to be careful to balance the characters to make it work.

If there was a Rogues team up in the first movie, how many would there be and which ones would they choose?

 

[protocida]

I'd have two: Captain Cold and Mirror Master (The second one). If there's enough time and space, I'd add a third one, which could be either Weather Wizard or Heat Wave. Weather Wizard is probably a better choice because he has greater powers.