The indication is these fight scenes are somewhat long, considering you have a scene outside a bank, the car getting away
Correction, I have a scene in a park, not outside the bank.
Excpet the scenes with rainbow Raider and the Turtle are fight scenes.
Yeah, short fight scenes. Like Spider-Man having a fight with Flash Thompson, wrestling, and later rounding up Uncle Ben's killer. And then fighting random muggers still later.
Considering how outlandish Rainbow Raiders powers, I think it could be budgetary concern and I doubt most studios would want to spend any kind ogf money on a character unrelated to the main plot.
Rainbow Raider is no more outlandish than Cyclops in my outline. OK, there are some forcefields, but onscreen he just fires some optic blasts.
You don't need bullet catching stuff, some guys are robbing an armored car, Flash runs by and easily defeats them, end of scene, its like 30 seconds and it gives a better indication of how fast he is then some draged scene in a muesum.
That's potentially dull. And faces the same problems as the robbery in Superman Returns, no sense of drama or possibility of defeat. Showing off Flash's powers and introducing the possibility of defeat is better dramatically, IMO, than just showing off his powers.
I'm pretty sure dark Knight is better then your script.
But again they just didn't have batman fight Mad Hatter a character with no build up or relation to the story. All of these things have a relation to the plot, they had build up, they didn't just introduce some random villain out of the blue, with no build up, like your script does.
I'm pretty sure my outline would be better too if I had six months paid time to spend on it. But, again, the idea that there are powered Rogues that are threatening the city and the police are outgunned is introduced and demonstrated in the very first scene, so I disagree that there is no buildup.
Its very illdefined plot because there is no indiction that Turtle or Rainbow Raider are part of Cold's rogues group, besides a throwaway line, so they serve no real story purpose.
Again there are way too many villains fighting for screen time and it makes most them come off as flat.
Well the Turtle isn't part of Cold's group. Just a "clever" criminal.
And, honestly, I don't care about many of the Rogues besides Cold and Mirror Master as far as characterization beyond the basics. What I care about is how they challenge Barry's wits and limitations. I care about establishing Newton's Laws force Barry to be creative in how he uses his powers rather than just punching people. I care about how he defeats a foe he can't touch due to a lightning barrier. I care about how he defeats a heat seeking projectile and turns his foes weaponry against him.
I don't care that Cold had an abusive childhood. Or that Weather Wizard has guilt over killing his brother. Or whatever Boomerang's deal is beyond being a crude scumbag. Or that Heat Wave is a pyro. That's not deep or meaningful.
Yeah, I want the Rogues to be entertaining and fun, but I don't think they're deep and need development beyond the basics.
Because there are far too many villains for me to care about here and most them are very underdeveloped. By picking up on one or two or three villains max, you can have them develop a relationship with the flash, rather them just being there as guys who Flash punches.
I did pick two criminals max to develop. Cold and Mirror Master. If you want to call the rest glorified henchmen, like the Toad and Sabertooth in X-Men, go ahead. That's fair, but they're henchmen that challenge the Flash physically and mentally.
TDK and X-2 are sequels, the first movies of those franchises were way more simple so you can get feel for the character before the bigger stuff happned. In the first movie you have to introduce the characters, so you shouldn't try to indroduce a ton of Flash characters at once, just a few so we can get a feel for them, if there are too many
So, they're sequels. What's the point? As movies they're much more complicated than a rather straightforward round up the Rogues plot. A plot that starts in Act I and gets spread over the whole movie rather than jammed into the second half of a film.
Here's a better question, how does my outline compare to X-Men, a non-sequel, with Wolverine, Magneto, Mystique, Prof. X, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Rogue, Storm, Senator Kelly, Sabertooth, and Toad? Or, again, Watchmen, with it's multiple flashbacks, six major characters, and timeline spanning from WWII to 1985?
Not mention Boomerang, Heat Wave and Weather wizard are very underdeveloped, some of these guys should be cut and others should have more focus, frankly the secene at Iron heights is not needed, having 3 main rogues, one commits a robbery, Falsh stoips him , but Mirror Master saves him and then Cold, Mirror Master and a third rogue simply go after the Flash in the climax, seems way cheaper and thus convoluted, instead of having an expeensive and overcrowded scene in a prison.
Your script just as way too much stuff at the same time and the scene with Cold and Heat wave at the end is very anti climatic, it would be better if he defeats them all on the same battlefield, saving Mirror master for last.
I'll disagree that the Iron Heights scene is needed as you do need something movie scale large for the climax. A simple robbery and trap isn't a big enough escalation from first act problems. And, you do need some sort of clever trap in my scenario. An insurmountable wave of criminals with three dimensional thinking for an escape I think fits the bill.
I do agree that the structure of the end could be rearranged so that Cold and Heat Wave are taken out on the battlefield. I just love me that New Frontier bit though, especially since it demonstrates that Cold has backup plans. And might have gotten away if it wasn't for that undisciplined Mirror Master.
I don't get a whole lot of feel for Cold, I don't get the same idea that he is likable rogue that he is in the comics, because they are too many characters fighting for screen time.
Besides Mirror Master, they are all pretty underdeveloped.
Well I didn't spend much time on dialogue in the outline, but I think establishing him as a thoughtful leader is accomplished. I do think his relationship with his henchmen helps flesh him out a bit though. There's a reason you see him independent of the other Rogues in the outline.
I'm pretty sure some people would notice a guy who looks like Turtle with a giant sack of money in a row boat, a row boat is not a good escape plan, more police would be called and he would be caught.
Maybe, if they're not distracted by watching a big car chase. And especially if he throws the sack under a tarp and the police speed by while he's under a bridge. The whole point to the Turtle is that he's using his calmness, patience, and inconspicuousness to his advantage. He's "clever".
You didn't do a good job of establishing who is in the Rogues in this movie, that's why Turtle and Rainbow Raider seem to come out of the blue. Plus some thug with a gun would be cheaper then any effects that involve Rainbow Raider.
Perhaps, but some thug with a gun isn't much of a threat, doesn't necessarily show Flash's limitations, doesn't help to establish what kind of world Flash lives in, and isn't necessarily exciting for the audience. Plus, DuChamp's painting fits well as a gag.
I do agree that further demonstrating Raider's connection to the core Rogues is a good idea, though.
So you expect the audience to buy two seperate acicdents happened, that don't relate to each other and they both gave two different people the exact same powers.
I think the speed force should at least be hinted at in this movie, to explain this.
Two rare accidents years and years apart certainly helps sell that it's not a common occurence. Plus, it's canon, so I'd rather just roll with it than try to come up with some elaborate connection that has no meaning to the bigger plot.
So, how do you hint at the Speed Force?
It gives Jay something to do in the plot, why put him in the movie, if he doesn't do anything important, it just a waste, you should develop his role more or cut it out.
To me, Jay has the Alfred role. The mentor and sounding board. With maybe a little bit of Lucius Fox thrown in by supplying Barry with the costume instead of a complicated sequence with Barry making his own costume and moves the plot along faster. Plus we introduce the legacy aspects and have a passing the torch moment. We haven't seen a passing the torch moment yet in superhero movies, so that seemed like something unique.
And, to me, extensive training is out of character with Barry Allen. He's a comic book geek and smart. He should take to superheroing pretty naturally.
The cops missing an eye lash may be forgivable in movies, this an omission you can drive a truck through. again this doesn't make Barry look smart as it does make him look like the only comptent cop on the force.
Again, I think this is more a question of geography than it is of incompetence. How many block radius do you think the cops will actually search? At some point, it becomes unreasonable to search that far. Remember, they don't necessarily know that a supervillain who can enter through mirrors is involved initially and potentially think he had to approach from close by.
Mirror Master can travel through mirrors, he can drink and smoke at his place, use a mirror to spy on the cop's house and enter the house when he sees the cop arrive, there is no reason for to leave that stuff at the cop's house.
Mirror Master is some what intelligent in the comics, so he shouldn't be acting like the Rhino from spider-Man and doing something this stupid, its not a slip up as it as it as an act of supreme stupidity that exists only to give Barry a huge, honking clue to prove Mirror Master was guilty.
Sure, he could do all that if he was disciplined and smart. This Mirror Master isn't.
I fully admit it's a change, but helps give this guy an edge and makes the Flash/Mirror Master conflict personal. And, besides, Sam Scudder hasn't been used in 20+ years, doesn't really have a modern personality, and making him a psycho that can be killed off to audience applause actually dovetails rather well with continuity. He's easily replaced with Evan McCulloch in any potential sequel.
Also I never heard of a killer who didn't take their booze and smokes with them, once they were done killing their victim, unless they are on one of those shows about really stupid criminals.
Ever watch Cops? Criminals are, typically, not bright.
Which is the point. They have superweapons, but for the most part, they're still just common criminals at heart. Fun, colorful, challenging criminals, but not megalomaniacs with schemes of city wide destruction and conquest.
