The Official Flash Thread

[Webhead2006]

ah ok cin0

 

[Webhead2006]

ah ok cin0

 

[Changeling]

ah ok cin0

 

[cin0]

being a kid in the movie but not being kidflash would be okay though.

 

[The Overlord]

Anyway I think if do have the Rogues in the first movie, they should have 3, maybe 4 rogues tops, in the movie. Any more then that, having too many villains and the origin in the first film will make the story convoluted and confused, when it should be concise.

 

[Evil Twin]

I'll make the best case for 5 Rogues. It makes intra-Rogues politics more fun. A leader, logically Cold. The leader's constituency. A challenger. The challenger's constitutency, Heat Wave, perhaps. And a swing vote.

In any case, I think an odd number, 3 or 5, is better than 2 or 4. Heck, two aren't "the Rogues", that's a teamup. Three's a trio, but I suppose that would qualify.

In any scenario involving Rogues, I'd say Cold and Mirror Master are necessities, the leader and transport. I'd toss in Weather Wizard as the third best for the group since he's a potential powerhouse.

 

[bryanss3]

would you want the rogues working together like a crime syndicate from the start or would you want them to unite after each being foiled by the Flash? I think it can work eother way but prefer if they're all already working together.

 

[bryanss3]

oops double

 

[Evil Twin]

I'd rather not see the origin of the Rogues as a group. I just don't think it's particularly interesting. Or at least not interesting enough to dwell on in an initial film when you have the Origin, world building stuff, character intro stuff, and the plot to fit in.

They're crooks. They've got superpowered weapons. They work together, sometimes dysfunctionally. They're too much for the cops. They have colorful personalities. Those are the main points you need to get across with them and, fortunately, it's pretty self explanatory stuff. You need to see their origin as much as you needed to see the origin of Ra's al Ghul and the League of Shadows.

 

[protocida]

Each Rogue is a very complex character with a very nuanced personality. I think we should see that on screen, and that wouldn't be possible with five Rogues, plus the Flash and it's supporting cast. I vote for two Rogues in the first movie: Leonard Snart AKA Captain Cold and Evan McCulloch AKA Mirror Master.

 

[Evil Twin]

Each Rogue is a very complex character with a very nuanced personality. I think we should see that on screen, and that wouldn't be possible with five Rogues, plus the Flash and it's supporting cast. I vote for two Rogues in the first movie: Leonard Snart AKA Captain Cold and Evan McCulloch AKA Mirror Master.

Any particular reason for McCulloch instead of Scudder?

I've no particular objection for a teamup movie, but I wouldn't call it Flash vs. The Rogues unless there are at least 3. Although, when I think "The Rogues" I really think of the following iconic cover.

 

[protocida]

I find McCulloch more interesting. He's more powerful, has a sick sense of humor, the drug-related problems and is scottish. t:

Scudder is also great, but he's more "normal". I believe that each Rogue has to stand out.

And, if the Script is really good, I also include Mark Mardon AKA Weather Wizard.

 

[Evil Twin]

All decent reasons, although I think the drug-related problems is a tough thing to address in a PG-13 setting.

One thing I like about Scudder, is that he's ripe for reinvention. And you can have any fate for him you want. If you want a cathartic villain death at the climax, he's your Rogue.

FWIW, I threw in Captain Boomerang into my outline a few pages back for a) comic relief and b) a backdoor setup for a Suicide Squad movie. I think if WB is truly serious about the Suicide Squad getting a movie, then you can just use him as an extended cameo. Might even get a bigger name actor if you promise him a role in another movie where he's featured more.

 

[protocida]

Good ideas, but I think Captain Boomerang wouldn't be taken seriously as a threat to the Flash.

 

[SuperFerret]

None of the Rogues seem like threats at first glance, which would make for a good surprise when they show themselves to be legitimate threats.

 

[protocida]

Tricky boomerangs are a far cry from freezing weapons, teleportation and climatic manipulation.

 

[Evil Twin]

Good ideas, but I think Captain Boomerang wouldn't be taken seriously as a threat to the Flash.

I think that's part of the point. He seems to be a joke, but is actually more capable than he seems. More untrustworthy too.

Although, he certainly is not lead Rogue material. That's pretty much Cold and Mirror Master. (At least as far as "The Rogues" potentially consisting of a selection out of Cold, Heat Wave, Weather Wizard, Pied Piper, Mirror Master, Boomerang, Trickster, The Top, Golden Glider, and Rainbow Raider, i.e. the sane crooks without origins involving time travel, gorilla cities, etc.)

 

[protocida]

I like your ideas, Evil Twin.

Including the Mirror Master murder plot point.

 

[Evil Twin]

Tricky boomerangs are a far cry from freezing weapons, teleportation and climatic manipulation.

OTOH, exploding boomerangs with shrapnel is a pretty direct and easily communicable idea. Heck, you can blow some things up with practical effects if need be. Make the explosions big enough and Boomerang looks much more formidible.

 

[SuperFerret]

One thing though, in the movie, the Rogues shouldn't be murderers. They always seemed to be above that.

 

[Evil Twin]

One thing though, in the movie, the Rogues shouldn't be murderers. They always seemed to be above that.

Well, except for trying to kill The Flash.

I'd agree though that these guys are content to do just enough to get away with the loot and don't feel it necessary to rack up massive body counts. They're thieves, but with a code of honor. Or, perhaps, code of practicality. The statute of limitations for murder never expires.

 

[protocida]

Actually, the Rogues never really tried to kill the Flash. They gave everything that they had in a fight because they always knew that the Flash would overcome them. So much that, when they accidentaly killed Bart Allen, the fourth and less prepared Flash, they came close to retire because they broke their own rules.

Also, ever since Captain Cold became the Rogues leader, he inflicted his rules into the team, which include:

1) Murder is only acceptable if it's for survival or for vengeance.

2) Drugs are prohibited.

3) Crimes with children are out of question (I'm not too sure on this one...)

... And others, which I find a very interesting aspect that sets the Rogues apart of other comic book villains.

 

[Evil Twin]

Actually, the Rogues never really tried to kill the Flash. They gave everything that they had in a fight because they always knew that the Flash would overcome them. So much that, when they accidentaly killed Bart Allen, the fourth and less prepared Flash, they came close to retire because they broke their own rules.

That's modern day rationalization of Silver Age stories. The Rogues tried to kill Barry plenty of times in contemporary tellings.

And, frankly, I think that's a bad story point for a movie. These are villains. They're trying to kill the hero. Removing the sense of danger is a bad idea.

FWIW, I also think it's a good idea if they menace Iris at some point. Or at least someone other than the hero.

 

[protocida]

One of my ideas for the movie was to have the Mirror Master as a murderer-for-hired hired by one of Central City's crime bosses to eliminate the others so he'd take control of Central City's mafia. In this version, Iris starts investigating the murders and actually solves everything before Barry, so, the crime boss sends Mirror Master after her before she can notify the police.

Also, I like the idea of Iris finding out Barry is the Flash withim minutes of interacting with him as Flash.

 

[The Overlord]

I'll make the best case for 5 Rogues. It makes intra-Rogues politics more fun. A leader, logically Cold. The leader's constituency. A challenger. The challenger's constitutency, Heat Wave, perhaps. And a swing vote.

In any case, I think an odd number, 3 or 5, is better than 2 or 4. Heck, two aren't "the Rogues", that's a teamup. Three's a trio, but I suppose that would qualify.

In any scenario involving Rogues, I'd say Cold and Mirror Master are necessities, the leader and transport. I'd toss in Weather Wizard as the third best for the group since he's a potential powerhouse.

That's well and good, but I don't think its worth the story telling problems that comes with too many villains, the movie will become over crowded if you put too many villains, too many villains ruined the later Batman movies in the 90s and Spider-Man 3.

There should be 3 if 4 is a problem, I said 4 max, but 3 is what I was set on personally. That's already a lot of villains. Plus with an origin story, you don't have time for a ton of villains, there is important character work with Flash himself that needs to be done, before you have 5 villains fighting for the spot light. The Flash movie shouldn't be 2 and half hours long, it should be around 2 hours. So trying to develop Flash's origin and Flash as a character, while trying to focus on 5 villains, is way too much for a first movie.

None of the Rogues seem like threats at first glance, which would make for a good surprise when they show themselves to be legitimate threats.

And is there any reason, besides plot induced stupidity, why Capt Boomerang is a threat to the Flash? Seriously the Spider-Man villain boomerang seems tougher then him, he can at least fly, so I don't get how Capt Boomerang is a threat to the Flash.

OTOH, exploding boomerangs with shrapnel is a pretty direct and easily communicable idea. Heck, you can blow some things up with practical effects if need be. Make the explosions big enough and Boomerang looks much more formidible.

So some guy with bombs is a threat to Flash? Isn't Flash really, really fast and the shrapnel would be moving in slow motion to him? So why bother with Capt Boomerang then, technically an ex IRA terrorist would be more of threat then him, because he would know more about bombs then Capt Boomerang.

Capt Boomerang doesn't work as any sort serious villain in movie, in sequel he could be a joke villain that Flash deals with in the beginning of movie, before Flash moves on to a bigger threat.

Maybe he can be a headliner in a Suicide Squad movie, but he won't work in that role in a Flash movie.

Actually, the Rogues never really tried to kill the Flash. They gave everything that they had in a fight because they always knew that the Flash would overcome them. So much that, when they accidentaly killed Bart Allen, the fourth and less prepared Flash, they came close to retire because they broke their own rules.
.

That won't work for a movie, you need some dramatic tension, the hero has to be in danger of losing something, there has to be some stakes. If the villains don't intend on killing Flash there are no stakes for him in the movie. The Rogues can have a code of honor, but it shouldn't exclude killing Flash.