The politically incorrect thread

[The Senator]

Additionally, how is the U.S. government hiring private contact killers [Blackwater] to kill civilians which get in the way not considered murder?

 

[Whirlysplat]

Additionally, how is the U.S. government hiring private contact killers [Blackwater] to kill civilians which get in the way not considered murder?

Now you are arguing something else. Your initial point has been addressed. War is not Murder as it does not fit the definition of murder which is a legal term. War is also a legal term hence the need to declare it, albeit sometimes the message gets lost like at Pearl Harbour.

 

[The Senator]

That is highly unlikely. Why would American troops kill innocent civilians, when they're in Iraq to combat the Al-Qaeda army? We're combatting the extremists, not the innocents.

Well, considering you're too busy spreading religion on message boards, I'll forgive you for not researching the war in Iraq and understanding that international organizations have estimated that at least 600,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq since the United States went to war in 2003. There are at least 200,000 civilians who have not been accounted for.

However, I will not forgive you for being so shallow as to not realize that bombs don't just kill the bad guys, and that they can kill people who were not considered "the enemy."

 

[The Senator]

Now you are arguing something else. Your initial point has been addressed. War is not Murder as it does not fit the definition of murder which is a legal term. War is also a legal term hence the need to declare it, albeit sometimes the message gets lost like at Pearl Harbour.

Except it is the same thing. The United States Department of Defense has hired private security ops to "assist" the mission in Iraq. The war in Iraq and Blackwater go hand in hand.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

That is highly unlikely. Why would American troops kill innocent civilians, when they're in Iraq to combat the Al-Qaeda army? We're combatting the extremists, not the innocents.

I don't care how smart are bombs are reported to be, you drop a bomb in a city, someone who doesn't support the terrorists will be killed by it. That's how this happens. A solider misses a shot the misshot bullet hits a cilivian, we're fighting in the streets where innocent people live, it's not hard to imagine a number of them are killed every day. Just because the 24 hour news networks don't report it doesn't make it not true. What about the people on the buses that suicide bombers explode, I'm willing to bet they're not soliders in the conflict.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Except it is the same thing. The United States Department of Defense has hired private security ops to "assist" the mission in Iraq. The war in Iraq and Blackwater go hand in hand.

If it's a war then you have answered the question yourself. They count as mercenary troops.

 

[The Senator]

If it's a war then you have answered the question yourself. They count as mercenary troops.

And if we're hiring mercenaries, how does that fit the basic protocol of war? How are their actions not considered murder?

 

[Whirlysplat]

And if we're hiring mercenaries, how does that fit the basic protocol of war? How are their actions not considered murder?

Mercenaries are also bound by the rule of law, they are considered the same as any other combatant.

 

[The Senator]

Mercenaries are also bound by the rule of law, they are considered the same as any other combatant.

So if I wanted to hire a mercenary to kill pedestrians in Washington, DC, because I'm tired of the Metro always being crowded, does that mean I can do so without being charged with murder?

 

[Schlosser85]

No the Holocaust was not fine because it broke the rules of engagement and was a "War Crime" e.g. it targeted non combatants. That is why the Holocaust and genocide in general is classed as a crime against humnanity within a war or in a time of peace.

The Nuremberg Trials ruled "waging aggressive war", i.e. invading a sovereign nation without provocation, a war crime...kind of like what we did in Iraq.

U.S. soldiers are in Iraq fighting for our freedom against both Al-Queda (sp?) and their sympathizers.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or Al Queda until we invaded it. The reason terrorists are flooding into Iraq now is for the chance to kill American soldiers.

Those were collateral damages, they were not murdered as they were part of the group they were at war with.

Our "war on terror" is, ostensibly, not with nations but extremists groups within those nations. Living in Iraq or Afghanistan does not make them "part of the group" we are at war with.

Mercenaries are also bound by the rule of law, they are considered the same as any other combatant.

No, they are not. When Blackwater agents gang-raped a woman and massacred seventeen civilians in a village square, no action was taken because they were ruled not be part of the military, and thus not subject to its authority. Likewise, although the crimes were committed on Iraqi soil, mostly against Iraqis, the fledgling Iraqi government had no real power of its own to take action against them, thus they went unpunished because the US military did not have the authority to punish them and the Iraqi government had no power to do so.

 

[Whirlysplat]

So if I wanted to hire a mercenary to kill pedestrians in Washington, DC, because I'm tired of the Metro always being crowded, does that mean I can do so without being charged with murder?

Well, you need to give a specific example and be able to give me actual eye witness evidence to be able to state it was a murder. Otherwise you are repeating heresay. Murder is a legal definition of something which goes to trial. You can only say someone is a murderer catagorically after they have been found guilty of murder.

 

[The Senator]

Well, you need to give a specific example and be able to give me actual eye witness evidence to be able to state it was a murder. Otherwise you are repeating heresay. Murder is a legal definition of something which goes to trial. You can only say someone is a murderer catagorically after they have been found guilty of murder.

You can read one of the many books about Blackwater from non-biased sources which claim that Blackwater has been responsible for thousands of civilian deaths, because they were ordered to wipe out civilians who "got in the way." You know-- books from people who are well-versed in foreign affairs and understand military policy. They can speak more about the situation than I can.

 

[Whirlysplat]

You can read one of the many books about Blackwater from non-biased sources which claim that Blackwater has been responsible for thousands of civilian deaths, because they were ordered to wipe out civilians who "got in the way." You know-- books from people who are well-versed in foreign affairs and understand military policy. They can speak more about the situation than I can.

Well if this is the case and it is tried, then, they are murderers. If they are not tried they are not murderers, both sides have to be heard in court for murder to be ruled.

 

[The Guard]

the only times that David was in true longing for anything was when he went against God's will (like his whole affair with Bathsheba, for example). David was far from perfect, but he was also wise enough to realize that anyone who trusts God more than themselves will be blessed for it. God Himself even called David "a man after My own heart".

Exactly. David was far from perfect. I'm pointing out that to quote and follow a man who himself was something of a hypocrite, would seem hypocritical.

He does that, too; he will use any form of trickery or blasphemy necessary to get people to turn away from God. He wants us to suffer, because he continually suffers. Scripture even says there's a consuming fire burning within him.

I've always found interesting that every choice people make that leads to suffering is attributed to Satan.

 

[The Senator]

Well if this is the case and it is tried, then, they are murderers. If they are not tried they are not murderers, both sides have to be heard in court for murder to be ruled.

But contract killers are not considered a part of the military, they are a private operation which was hired by the United States government to do what our military is not legally allowed to do, according to precedents established by past treaties. We are only legally allowed, according to international law, to use our soldiers in military affairs. As a result, the fact that we hired Blackwater does mean that the United States has sponsored murder in Iraq. Essentially, we have hired glorified hit men to take out those who get in our way.

This is the sole reason, in my opinion, why George W. Bush should be impeached. As commander-in-chief of our military, he should know better.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Exactly. David was far from perfect. I'm pointing out that to quote and follow a man who himself was something of a hypocrite, would seem hypocritical.

If Christians were pledged to David, that'd be true...but we don't serve a fallible man. We serve an infallible God.

I've always found interesting that every choice people make that leads to suffering is attributed to Satan.

I don't attribute every wrong thing in life to Satan; I won't grant him that much power or recognition. I believe some screwups in life are simply due to humanity stubbornly wanting its own way. But there is a devil out there, and his purpose is to steal, kill, and destroy anyone who seeks after God.

 

[Whirlysplat]

But contract killers are not considered a part of the military, they are a private operation which was hired by the United States government to do what our military is not legally allowed to do, according to precedents established by past treaties. We are only legally allowed, according to international law, to use our soldiers in military affairs. As a result, the fact that we hired Blackwater does mean that the United States has sponsored murder in Iraq. Essentially, we have hired glorified hit men to take out those who get in our way.

This is the sole reason, in my opinion, why George W. Bush should be impeached. As commander-in-chief of our military, he should know better.

Someone is only a murderer when they have been found guilty of murder. Regardless of your other comments they are accusations only.

 

[The Senator]

Someone is only a murderer when they have been found guilty of murder. Regardless of your other comments they are accusations only.

If the crimes of Blackwater have been well documented, then how can we not pass judgment on them? After all, Osama bin Laden lays claim to the WTC attacks without legally being tried for them, but we are hardly refraining from calling him a "murderer" and a "terrorist."

 

[Eggyman]

If Christians were pledged to David, that'd be true...but we don't serve a fallible man. We serve an infallible God.

I don't attribute every wrong thing in life to Satan; I won't grant him that much power or recognition. I believe some screwups in life are simply due to humanity stubbornly wanting its own way. But there is a devil out there, and his purpose is to steal, kill, and destroy anyone who seeks after God.

That sounds awesome! Some one should write a book/make a film about it

 

[Whirlysplat]

If the crimes of Blackwater have been well documented, then how can we not pass judgment on them?

We can certainly offer opinions and you can say in my opinion they are murderers. You cannot say they are Murderers in the eyes of the law though at this point. That may change obviously.

 

[Mikelus]

Homosexuality exists in nature, I guess "the gods" don't give a crap really. People have to educate themselves, read scientific studies, instead of repeating religious nonsense like sheep. "God" wants you to be good and smart, not intolerant idiots.

 

[The Senator]

Homosexuality exists in nature, I guess "the gods" don't give a crap really. People have to educate themselves, read scientific studies, instead of repeating religious nonsense like sheep. "God" wants you to be good and smart, not intolerant idiots.

No, God wants people to vote for George W. Bush and Sarah Palin, because that is His plan. Or at least, that's what Bush and Palin's pastor say.

 

[Whirlysplat]

No, God wants people to vote for George W. Bush and Sarah Palin, because that is His plan. Or at least, that's what Bush and Palin's pastor say.

True God does, but, that's another story.

 

[Mikelus]

^^ BTW, "the old man in heaven" hates London!!

 

[BlackLantern]

My pants want me to vote for Palin...not God