The President Obama Thread: "Screw You Thread Manager" Edition

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Good article by Ted Rall that addresses a lot of the arguments advanced by Obama supporters:

How to Talk to an Obama Voter (If You Must)

In 2012 Politics Is In The Streets--Not the Voting Booth

The Occupy movement is lying low. The Tea Party has been completely absorbed into the Republican Party--just another interest group. The only politics anyone talks about is the presidential horserace.

Don't be fooled. This is temporary.

Spring will come. Robins will sing. The Occupations will return, bigger, energized and more militant. Don't be surprised if movements more militant, further to the Left than Occupy, begin to emerge.

What passes for politics--Democrats, Republicans, vacuous debates over mini-issues (flag burning, taxes, deficits, gays) as the big issues go ignored (jobs, income inequality, militarism)--will be finally, totally and irreversibly exposed as the irrelevant, distracting farce they are.

Politics is about to move into the streets. Where they belong. Where they live in countries whose citizens are engaged in the fight over their destinies.

[...]

People who don't understand that everything has changed are gearing up for a presidential election. Obama versus Probably Romney. Should they vote? If so, for whom? Should they canvass/work the phones/donate to the corporate candidate of "their" choice?

[...]

They've been programmed with talking points. Here's how you counter them.

Talking Point: If I don't vote for Obama, the Even Worse Republicans win.

Answer: So vote for Obama. Or don't vote. It makes no difference either way. Voting is like praying to God. It doesn't hurt. Nor does it do any good. As with religion, the harm comes from the self-delusion of thinking you're actually doing something. You're not. Wanna save the world? Or just yourself? That, you'll have to do outside, in the street.

In a second term, a reelected Obama who doesn't have to worry about running again will be free to do cool liberal stuff.

Lame duck, anyone? Second-termers are weak. Look at previous presidents' second terms: Bush 2005-2009, Clinton 1997-2001, Reagan 1985-1989, Nixon 1973-1974. Not much got done. Lots of scandals. Second-termers do worry about the next election; they want a successor from their party (typically their veep). Anyway, there is no evidence--none--that Obama ever wanted to do cool liberal stuff. He never promised any. Dude was a conservative Democrat all along. In a second term he'll be a weak conservative Democrat so preoccupied trying to hand off the baton to Biden that he won't float anything risky.

Lesser-evilism, yo. Gotta do whatever it takes so that Romney/Gingrich/Ron Paul doesn't get in. Gimme those Obama totebags!


In the short run, this is a valid argument. If we were only considering this one election, it would make sense to get Obama in again. Anything to keep those crazy Republicans out.

Over the long term, however, lesser-evilism falls apart.

When the argument for every Democrat is that he's not a Republican, when every Democrat who wins proves a disappointing imitation of the Republicans his supporters were supposedly voting against, when the net result is a string of alternating Democrats and Republicans who basically do the same thing, especially on the major issues, this election isn't some special "let's hold our nose this one time" but merely part of a rancid continuum that we should be opposing with all of our strength and energy--something we can't do if we're out pounding the pavement on behalf of a man who is oppressing us just as surely as his so-called "enemies."
 
However, I want intelligent critiques. Blaming America for the sake of blaming America is nonsense. Chavez's use of personal insults towards political figures he doesn't agree with is rude and obnoxious.

And to further my point, Chavez has just come out saying that the United States may have developed technology to give leftist Latin America leaders such as himself cancer.
 
How to talk to a socialist who idolizes and glorifies the Bolshevik Revolution.....

"Lenin and Trotsky were hypocrites who killed their own Proletarian brothers who disagreed with them."

Then go make some coffee and read the paper while they bloviate for the next half hour.

;) :awesome: :oldrazz:

I could not resist.
 
How to talk to a socialist who idolizes and glorifies the Bolshevik Revolution.....

"Lenin and Trotsky were hypocrites who killed their own Proletarian brothers who disagreed with them."

Then go make some coffee and read the paper while they bloviate for the next half hour.

;) :awesome: :oldrazz:

I could not resist.

Guilty as charged. :oldrazz:
 
How to talk to a socialist who idolizes and glorifies the Bolshevik Revolution.....

"Lenin and Trotsky were hypocrites who killed their own Proletarian brothers who disagreed with them."

Then go make some coffee and read the paper while they bloviate for the next half hour.

;) :awesome: :oldrazz:

I could not resist.
:lmao:
 
Latest polling has Obama's approval numbers back down to the numbers they were a month ago. Rasmussen polling has his approval rating at 44% to 54% disapprove while Gallop has his approval rating at 41% to 50% disapproval. Politico has reported that the most recent polling where Obama's numbers were in the positive territory were most likely outliers.

And in more bad news for the re-election strategy of Obama, youth registration for voting has declined in the states of North Carolina and Nevada, indicating that participation by youths (a group that Obama needs) will decline dramatically.
 
Latest polling has Obama's approval numbers back down to the numbers they were a month ago. Rasmussen polling has his approval rating at 44% to 54% disapprove while Gallop has his approval rating at 41% to 50% disapproval. Politico has reported that the most recent polling where Obama's numbers were in the positive territory were most likely outliers.

And in more bad news for the re-election strategy of Obama, youth registration for voting has declined in the states of North Carolina and Nevada, indicating that participation by youths (a group that Obama needs) will decline dramatically.


Recent college grads are his most disillusioned supporters from 2008. Unemployment rate for them is 18% compared to 9% for the national average. He's screwed without the youth vote IMHO. I can't stand Romney, but I will say he'll be more friendly to the oil and gas industry so that's good for me. The fact that he is very much a slave to Wall Street just like Obama infuriates me though. No chance in hell we will make any progress in fixing the debt problem as long as "establishment" types like Romney and Obama are in office.
 
How exactly is President Obama a "slave" to Wall Street?
 
How exactly is President Obama a "slave" to Wall Street?


Take a look at his advisers and the folks he appointed for important positions. The likes of Summers and Geithner are absolutely Wall Street puppets. Obama has also received a ton of campaign funding from the bankers.
 
I am fairly familiar with his advisors and high level positions. As far as Geithner goes, the man should have been booted from the position a long time ago.
 
I'm 26 and not going to vote unless Paul is the Republican nominee. Screw Romney and Obama.

Yeah I'm 29 and I personally think it's time for a Revolution. Man, it's going to suck for a while afterwards but it's getting close to time i believe.
 
Take a look at his advisers and the folks he appointed for important positions. The likes of Summers and Geithner are absolutely Wall Street puppets. Obama has also received a ton of campaign funding from the bankers.

Does anyone know when the "puppets" started in the white house? Was it with Reagan or before?
 

You beat me to the punch! Good to see someone else linking to one of Glenn Greenwald's articles. He's one of my favourite writers and that's a great article.

The biggest political arguments I've had lately are all with liberals who support Barack Obama and are aghast that I would choose Ron Paul over him. The cognitive dissonance is truly astounding. The same people who claim to be antiwar defenders of civil liberties and critics of Wall Street are rushing to vote for the war-starting, Constitution-shredding bankster puppet rather than the only principled voice on the national stage who's criticizing any of that.

Whatever else one wants to say, it is indisputably true that Ron Paul is the only political figure with any sort of a national platform — certainly the only major presidential candidate in either party — who advocates policy views on issues that liberals and progressives have long flamboyantly claimed are both compelling and crucial. The converse is equally true: the candidate supported by liberals and progressives and for whom most will vote — Barack Obama — advocates views on these issues (indeed, has taken action on these issues) that liberals and progressives have long claimed to find repellent, even evil.

As Matt Stoller argued in a genuinely brilliant essay on the history of progressivism and the Democratic Party which I cannot recommend highly enough: “the anger [Paul] inspires comes not from his positions, but from the tensions that modern American liberals bear within their own worldview.” Ron Paul’s candidacy is a mirror held up in front of the face of America’s Democratic Party and its progressive wing, and the image that is reflected is an ugly one; more to the point, it’s one they do not want to see because it so violently conflicts with their desired self-perception.

The thing I loathe most about election season is reflected in the central fallacy that drives progressive discussion the minute “Ron Paul” is mentioned. As soon as his candidacy is discussed, progressives will reflexively point to a slew of positions he holds that are anathema to liberalism and odious in their own right and then say: how can you support someone who holds this awful, destructive position? The premise here — the game that’s being played — is that if you can identify some heinous views that a certain candidate holds, then it means they are beyond the pale, that no Decent Person should even consider praising any part of their candidacy.

The fallacy in this reasoning is glaring. The candidate supported by progressives — President Obama — himself holds heinous views on a slew of critical issues and himself has done heinous things with the power he has been vested. He has slaughtered civilians — Muslim children by the dozens — not once or twice, but continuously in numerous nations with drones, cluster bombs and other forms of attack. He has sought to overturn a global ban on cluster bombs. He has institutionalized the power of Presidents — in secret and with no checks — to target American citizens for assassination-by-CIA, far from any battlefield. He has waged an unprecedented war against whistleblowers, the protection of which was once a liberal shibboleth. He rendered permanently irrelevant the War Powers Resolution, a crown jewel in the list of post-Vietnam liberal accomplishments, and thus enshrined the power of Presidents to wage war even in the face of a Congressional vote against it. His obsession with secrecy is so extreme that it has become darkly laughable in its manifestations, and he even worked to amend the Freedom of Information Act (another crown jewel of liberal legislative successes) when compliance became inconvenient.

He has entrenched for a generation the once-reviled, once-radical Bush/Cheney Terrorism powers of indefinite detention, military commissions, and the state secret privilege as a weapon to immunize political leaders from the rule of law. He has shielded Bush era criminals from every last form of accountability. He has vigorously prosecuted the cruel and supremely racist War on Drugs, including those parts he vowed during the campaign to relinquish — a war which devastates minority communities and encages and converts into felons huge numbers of minority youth for no good reason. He has empowered thieving bankers through the Wall Street bailout, Fed secrecy, efforts to shield mortgage defrauders from prosecution, and the appointment of an endless roster of former Goldman, Sachs executives and lobbyists. He’s brought the nation to a full-on Cold War and a covert hot war with Iran, on the brink of far greater hostilities. He has made the U.S. as subservient as ever to the destructive agenda of the right-wing Israeli government. His support for some of the Arab world’s most repressive regimes is as strong as ever.

Most of all, America’s National Security State, its Surveillance State, and its posture of endless war is more robust than ever before. The nation suffers from what National Journal‘s Michael Hirsh just christened “Obama’s Romance with the CIA.” He has created what The Washington Post just dubbed“a vast drone/killing operation,” all behind an impenetrable wall of secrecy and without a shred of oversight. Obama’s steadfast devotion to what Dana Priest and William Arkin called “Top Secret America” has severe domestic repercussions as well, building up vast debt and deficits in the name of militarism that create the pretext for the “austerity” measures which the Washington class (including Obama) is plotting to impose on America’s middle and lower classes.

The simple fact is that progressives are supporting a candidate for President who has done all of that — things liberalism has long held to be pernicious. I know it’s annoying and miserable to hear. Progressives like to think of themselves as the faction that stands for peace, opposes wars, believes in due process and civil liberties, distrusts the military-industrial complex, supports candidates who are devoted to individual rights, transparency and economic equality. All of these facts — like the history laid out by Stoller in that essay — negate that desired self-perception. These facts demonstrate that the leader progressives have empowered and will empower again has worked in direct opposition to those values and engaged in conduct that is nothing short of horrific. So there is an eagerness to avoid hearing about them, to pretend they don’t exist. And there’s a corresponding hostility toward those who point them out, who insist that they not be ignored.

The parallel reality — the undeniable fact — is that all of these listed heinous views and actions from Barack Obama have been vehemently opposed and condemned by Ron Paul: and among the major GOP candidates, only by Ron Paul. For that reason, Paul’s candidacy forces progressives to face the hideous positions and actions of their candidate, of the person they want to empower for another four years. If Paul were not in the race or were not receiving attention, none of these issues would receive any attention because all the other major GOP candidates either agree with Obama on these matters or hold even worse views.

Progressives would feel much better about themselves, their Party and their candidate if they only had to oppose, say, Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann. That’s because the standard GOP candidate agrees with Obama on many of these issues and is even worse on these others, so progressives can feel good about themselves for supporting Obama: his right-wing opponent is a warmonger, a servant to Wall Street, a neocon, a devotee of harsh and racist criminal justice policies, etc. etc. Paul scrambles the comfortable ideological and partisan categories and forces progressives to confront and account for the policies they are working to protect. His nomination would mean that it is the Republican candidate — not the Democrat — who would be the anti-war, pro-due-process, pro-transparency, anti-Fed, anti-Wall-Street-bailout, anti-Drug-War advocate (which is why some neocons are expressly arguing they’d vote for Obama over Paul). Is it really hard to see why Democrats hate his candidacy and anyone who touts its benefits?
 
Does anyone know when the "puppets" started in the white house? Was it with Reagan or before?

It depends greatly on the person. Some early presidents were puppets, some even to their wives... Others were definitely not. Compare Nixon to Bush. Some lead, some are glorified figureheads.
 
Um puppets have been in the White House a hell of a long time before Reagan.
 
You beat me to the punch! Good to see someone else linking to one of Glenn Greenwald's articles. He's one of my favourite writers and that's a great article.

The biggest political arguments I've had lately are all with liberals who support Barack Obama and are aghast that I would choose Ron Paul over him. The cognitive dissonance is truly astounding. The same people who claim to be antiwar defenders of civil liberties and critics of Wall Street are rushing to vote for the war-starting, Constitution-shredding bankster puppet rather than the only principled voice on the national stage who's criticizing any of that.

It's almost comical to watch the intellectual dishonesty at work. If these people couldn't vote it would be comedy of the highest order. Instead it's sad and almost disturbing.
 
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