The Prestige

[Secret_Riddle]

Jerry, your missing some things in the film. Some things that are pretty obvious, and kill your theory.

 

[Jerry]

Jerry, you're insane.

I haven't, and won't, read all your/others' posts, but a few things I caught real quick.

Spoiler

The machine works. Did you not see the twenty five or so top hats/cats in the woods? How about the fact that there are just as many tanks with dead bodies in them at the end? The reason the man Bale sees is so scared of dying is because he's 100 percent identical to the real one...meaning, as far as both clones know, they are the magician...of course he doesnt want to die. Whichever one lives, gets to live the life until the next night when he might die, but another takes his place. Yknow?

Also, the lines "repeated" at the end are the ones from the beginning.

I'd suggest watching it again, cuz you clearly missed something (and keep in mind, I'm not gonna waste my time reading more than I already have )

Well I already explained everything in your response, so if you don't want to read it, then don't. And I know the lines at the end were from the beginning, thats what I meant when I said repeated.

Jerry, your missing some things in the film. Some things that are pretty obvious, and kill your theory.

I am asking what is it that is so obvious that I haven't explained or missed?

 

[Prodigy]

I just explained what you missed, and I was barely scratching the surface

 

[Jerry]

well, first they are duplicates because the movie is based on the book. in the book, there are duplicates (and the result is actually a little different). it even takes incredibly larger steps into fiction with it's turn of events in the story.

but you're missing big parts. you're suggesting that once Angier returns from Colorado Springs that he uses Root in his act (who hadn't been seen since being tied up by Borden)? Even if for some reason Angier found Root and trusted him (which he shouldn't) to do the performance again, it was obvious Root didn't sound the same, which is why he never spoke the first time. With Tesla's machine, when he and Cutter show it to the man to get their final 100 perfomances, it is clear that Angier speaks and interacts with the man both before and after teleporting. Would Root, a drunk, be able to do that and act exactly like Angier? Especially after blackmailing him, messing up his trick and career? Hardly.

Of course Borden has a twin, it was never suggested he was a duplicate, and is even explained it was his twin.

The machine actually works. You said Alley had no trouble putting his cat in there, when he obviously fought it. "Hey, that's my cat." "If you hurt that animal..." His reluctance to take it out of the cage. You completely missed all that. This all happened, it's not just Angier writing in down in a journal for Borden to read. There's scenes that occur after Borden realizes Angier wrote the end of his journal for Borden to read. Those scenes included using the machine and getting rid of the duplicates. At the end it is INCREDIBLY clear that the man floating in the tank closest to the camera is Angier's copy. They all are. Why would he go to the trouble of keeping them under the theatre and continuing with (what he thinks is the only) Borden being hanged? It's over. He's dead. No need to continue with the trick. Til the brother shoots him. The camera clearly shows it's an Angier duplicate. If you're suggesting it's Root, he's laying dead in the ground after Cutter verified the body. It's not Angier, he was just shot. And there were dozens of tanks down there.

What is this "in this world" stuff? This movie is fiction. Tesla is used often in fiction as having this incredible knowledge and power over energy and this is just another use. It's not just a "cop-out" ending... the whole movie is suggestive of the duplicates and the idea is introduced halfway in, not just at the end like "hey, oh yah and he magically makes duplicates." It would be a cop-out if they never showed Tesla or the workings of the machine in the movie at all. The idea is reflected in the whole story. Remember the beginning with the birds? One dies, a duplicate reappears from somewhere else. Sounds familiar, eh?

I suggest you watch it again, and if that doesn't make more sense of it, then I suggest reading the book.

Sorry, for whatever reason I missed this post.

Spoiler

First of all, the book should be considered separate from the movie. It doesn't necessarily mean it will have the same ending or both versions have to have the machine work.

I can see your points and I disagree on some. It weird, because there are instances where I completely believe that the machine worked, and then have instances where I can see how the machine didn't work. One of the flaws I see with the theory that the machine works, why does the clone not show up instantly during the show where Angier is killed and Borden is under the stage like he does in the other shows?

Why does the Angier that falls through and into the water tank and then sees Borden want to escape the water tank when he should have known by then what could happen. Why be that surprised and desperate to get out and ruin the trick when he knows that is the whole point of the water tank being there? And why does the clone of Angier transport about 5 feet away from him when he told Borden at the end, but it transports him half a football field away in the trick?

And you are right on your point of where Root is, buried, dead after the trick, how could he be in the basement with the tanks. I don't know. Either that scene showing all the tanks and the one Angier in the tank is not what Borden is seeing but a metaphor for the audience, or it is what he is seeing and the machine made all those duplicates. There are inconsistencies with both theories.

As for Angier putting all those tanks in the theater. You have to remember, he was doing that to get Borden's attention, because he knew Fallon, who he thinks is just a friend of Borden's, would be watching and reporting back to Borden what they were doing. And after Borden was framed, he can't continue the trick, because to everyone else Angier is dead. He can't just show up and start doing the trick again. The whole thing with the 100 performances only, that was only to force Borden's move and have him show at his performance in order to frame him.

But I think you got that part with the bird cage mixed up a bit. That was relating more to Borden, not Angier. Caged bird/ jailed Borden. Bird gets crushed dies/ Borden hanged, Another bird comes out/ The other twin Borden comes back. Cutter says at the end something like, "but the audience doesn't applaud until you bring him back." And just then the other Borden twin comes out and hugs his daughter.

 

[Prodigy]

Sorry, for whatever reason I missed this post.

Spoiler

First of all, the book should be considered separate from the movie. It doesn't necessarily mean it will have the same ending or both versions have to have the machine work.

I can see your points and I disagree on some. It weird, because there are instances where I completely believe that the machine worked, and then have instances where I can see how the machine didn't work. One of the flaws I see with the theory that the machine works, why does the clone not show up instantly during the show where Angier is killed and Borden is under the stage like he does in the other shows?

Why does the Angier that falls through and into the water tank and then sees Borden want to escape the water tank when he should have known by then what could happen. Why be that surprised and desperate to get out and ruin the trick when he knows that is the whole point of the water tank being there? And why does the clone of Angier transport about 5 feet away from him when he told Borden at the end, but it transports him half a football field away in the trick?

And you are right on your point of where Root is, buried, dead after the trick, how could he be in the basement with the tanks. I don't know. Either that scene showing all the tanks and the one Angier in the tank is not what Borden is seeing but a metaphor for the audience, or it is what he is seeing and the machine made all those duplicates. There are inconsistencies with both theories.

But I think you got that part with the bird cage mixed up a bit. That was relating more to Borden, not Angier. Caged bird/ jailed Borden. Bird gets crushed dies/ Borden hanged, Another bird comes out/ The other twin Borden comes back. Cutter says at the end something like, "but the audience doesn't applaud until you bring him back." And just then the other Borden twin comes out and hugs his daughter.

Wow man. Just wow. I'm not even sure it's worth arguing any more because no matter what the truth is, you're just going to find some reason to deny it. It's not a metaphor for the audience, man, the body is floating there, along with dozens of others. Not "just" for the audience. I mean with that argument, I could say Borden's twin never existed. It's obvious he does, right? Cause he's alive at the end. But if I deny it, that means he just existed for the audience. That makes as much sense as what you're saying. There aren't any "inconsistencies" with my "theory" cause it's not a "theory" it's how the movie ends. I could say "Bruce Willis didn't really die at the end of Armageddon." "How" you say? Well, didn't see the dead body. So, he might not be dead. Ridiculous.

He doesn't appear when the duplicate dies because he just didn't pop out from where he was transported to. It's obvious he can change where he's teleported to, because they make the hats and cats appear outside, Angier's duplicate appears in front of him, and later he's placed precisely up in the balcony in two different locations (one for Cutter and the man, the other for the audience during the show). Someone has already said it and I'll say it again... he's freaking out about drowning in the water because he's effin drowning. He had to convince Borden that he was not a duplicate Angier cause Borden was standing there looking at him. If he just let it go and didn't move while drowning, Borden would wonder what the hell is up and probably suspect something. He said explicitly that he was scared every night, because he didn't know if he'd be drowning or if he'd be the one to teleport. Plain and simple.

And I'm sorry to say, your interpretation of the film is without any grounds. I could say "Borden represents Jesus." Could I find arguments that support this theory? Probably. Hey, Borden called himself "The Professor" and people learned from the "teachings" of Jesus. So, Borden represents Jesus. Try telling that to Christopher Nolan. He'd probably smile, be nice/confused, and say "Well, that's one way to take it, I suppose."

 

[Jerry]

I'm not being stubborn. I just think that in both interpretations of the ending that there questions to the validity of them both respectively. I can see it both ways.

 

[Nivek]

Jerry, do you post on the Chud boards too? Because thats the only other place I seen anything close to your opinion of what "really" happened spoken about.

 

[Jerry]

No, but you should check out the IMBD and Rotten tomato boards for The Prestige, there are fans of both theories. Its just tough for me to believe that when all is said and done, that a movie that has been down to earth the whole time, comes up with a fantastical ending? It just doesn't seem to fit together. It all comes down to the last lines: "Now you're looking for the secret, but you won't find it because you're not really looking, because you don't want to work it out. You want to be fooled." That is directly talking about/to US, the movie going audience. Why have that playing in conjunction with the scenes they are showing if all the secrets have been revealed already? Up until that moment I agreed with the "machine works" ending.

 

[cryptic name]

No, but you should check out the IMBD and Rotten tomato boards for The Prestige, there are fans of both theories. Its just tough for me to believe that when all is said and done, that a movie that has been down to earth the whole time, comes up with a fantastical ending? It just doesn't seem to fit together. It all comes down to the last lines: "Now you're looking for the secret, but you won't find it because you're not really looking, because you don't want to work it out. You want to be fooled." That is directly talking about/to US, the movie going audience. Why have that playing in conjunction with the scenes they are showing if all the secrets have been revealed already? Up until that moment I agreed with the "machine works" ending.

it's not just the ending though. the whole concept of the duplicates is introduced in the middle of the movie. i think you should consider why that line is at the end, because you're the one looking for a trick, not wanting to accept the simple fact that the machine works.

 

[Jerry]

So according to you, almost no one else has thought of this theory, and that line is speaking only to those people? That doesn't make sense, because it was UP UNTIL that point I had believed the machine worked, the movie was over,that the duplicates were actually being made and killed, etc. I wasn't looking for anymore secrets, I had accepted it. Up until that point.

 

[JTStarkiller]

Sacrificed some much needed sleep to watch this last night. What an amazing piece of cinema.

Just like Memento, it's not necessarily better the second time, but it's a wonderful different experience.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Nolan definitely kicks ass at making movies you need to see at least twice.

 

[Prodigy]

So according to you, almost no one else has thought of this theory, and that line is speaking only to those people? That doesn't make sense, because it was UP UNTIL that point I had believed the machine worked, the movie was over,that the duplicates were actually being made and killed, etc. I wasn't looking for anymore secrets, I had accepted it. Up until that point.

Then line doesn't refer to anything specifically. Borden, a little bit, but it's just an ending line repeating the beginning. It has no significance on the storyline at all. AT ALL.

 

[Nivek]

No, but you should check out the IMBD and Rotten tomato boards for The Prestige, there are fans of both theories. Its just tough for me to believe that when all is said and done, that a movie that has been down to earth the whole time, comes up with a fantastical ending? It just doesn't seem to fit together. It all comes down to the last lines: "Now you're looking for the secret, but you won't find it because you're not really looking, because you don't want to work it out. You want to be fooled." That is directly talking about/to US, the movie going audience. Why have that playing in conjunction with the scenes they are showing if all the secrets have been revealed already? Up until that moment I agreed with the "machine works" ending.

And from what I have seen, people on those boards dog people talking about ths theory just as much as your getting now.

Your theory is horribly confused and wrong, and your really overreaching the subtext of those lines. It wasn't stated to the veiwing audience, it is in relation to Angiers obsession to find the secret behind Bordens trick. He wanted it to be more complicated than a double, and he spent a fortune to find it, but it just came down to Bordon hiding the fact he had a twin. Thats what Caine ment when he said earlier in the movie that he knew how Bordon did it, and that he was a "Natural Magician". It's all explained there after you know what to look for. Thats where the "getting your hands dirty" exchange came from, because the guy was literally killing himself every night.


It's pretty easy to connect the dots, your drawing around the dots.

 

[Jerry]

Alright I see we are getting no where with this, I've already said I can see things both ways so lets just agree to disagree. But Prodigy, that last line still has a lot significance to the movie, no matter what ending one may believe.

 

[cky]

**Edit. Delete this if you can.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I thought it was an awesome movie.

 

[blud_knight]

it all goes back to the birds. "you are the lucky one tonight"
and to the stand ins. Something you cannot control.

 

[BatMatt]

This was my first Blu-Ray movie and I watched it on Friday. The picture was absolutely perfect

 

[Jerry]

Even after watching the movie multiple times now, each going under the presumption of that the machine works/doesn't work, there are still flaws in both. I eventually found this extraordinarily long post at the IMDd forums for the Prestige. It gives a explanation of the movie, and in particular the Tesla machine and the ending. Interesting things to consider, but be warned the initial post is only the first part of the explanation, there are like 7 other parts just as long. Lot to take in, like the film itself, but it has helped for me to clear things up.

But regardless of all of the debate, it doesn't take away from how great the movie is.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0482571/board/thread/67821170?d=67821170#67821170

 

[CAH]

Nolan definitely kicks ass at making movies you need to see at least twice.

The Truth You Speak Of.



CAH

 

[Anita18]

Grrr, I wanted to rent this at Blockbusters the past weekend, but they were completely out!

Rented Insomnia instead, so at least I could watch a Nolan movie. :P

 

[Jerry]

Too bad you chose the bad Nolan movie.

 

[BatMatt]

Insomnia isn't bad, just Nolan's most "normal" movie, although it uses flashbacks, something a Nolan film has yet to be missing.

 

[Obsidian]

While "Insomnia" may be Nolan's worst film, it's still a great film. You get some great performances from Al Pacino and Robin Williams. It's fun to watch the two onscreen together.