World "The Spectacular Spider-Man" Appreciation Thread (possible spoilers)

[UltimateWebhead]

Since they had different actors playing Green Goblin and both of the Osborns, one way they could've done Hobgoblin would be for Steve Blum to play him too, only have him put a different spin on the voice somehow. No problem for an accomplished performer like Blum.

I'm sure Blum would have been able to accommodate. I guess the only concern there is people might hear the similarities in the voices between HG and GG. Eh, probably wouldn't have made a difference though.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Yeah the distortion effect worked well enough. You weren't able to tell it was indeed MacNicol without looking at the credits. I think they did a great job when making this show about only making changes that were necessary for the story and not making contrived changes. They kept true to the core.

Except for Shocker being Montana. That not necessary. Should have been Herman Schultz.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Except for Shocker being Montana. That not necessary. Should have been Herman Schultz.

You and I have covered this ground before. I won't retread...except to say, I respectfully disagree

 

[Doctor Octopus]

lol ok.

You think all changes they made were ok?

 

[UltimateWebhead]

lol ok.

You think all changes they made were ok?

Did you want to revisit the whole Montana/Shocker debate? I remember that we already discussed that change at length and it eventually ended with us 'shaking hands' and amicably ending it. I don't think the outcome will be any different after another go-round.

I have some minor quibbles with the show. I didn't like how they turned Kraven into a big, furry kitty cat. I get the reasoning behind it but it's a turn-off regardless.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

No not want to revisit it, I just thought it was funny how we had that debate but I forgot we had. Was long time ago I think.

Agreed about Kraven furry cat. He also looked silly.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

No not want to revisit it, I just thought it was funny how we had that debate but I forgot we had. Was long time ago I think.

Agreed about Kraven furry cat. He also looked silly.

I remembered our debate simply because I enjoyed it--we had a good convo and you're a good poster, respectful and well-read

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Thank you Ultimatewebhead. That so kind. So are you. Very nice person and good Spidey fan.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

​

Thank you Ultimatewebhead. That so kind. So are you. Very nice person and good Spidey fan.

How very kind of you to say



So, I was rewatching the episode "BluePrints" the other day and noticed something. There's a scene at the end where Norman is calling Peter and saying that he's been reinstated back at Connor's lab and also that Norman is going to be Peter's mentor. Well, during that scene Norman is creepily peeling an egg and it totally reminded me of this movie called Angel Heart. In that movie, a character that Robert Deniro is playing does the same thing, he creepily peels an egg with his long fingernails and then talks to another character about how in some cultures the egg is the symbol of the soul. He then takes a bite out of it with a sinister look on his face. Norman also takes a bite and I just thought that was a cool reference.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

That very cool. This show have movie references in it few times. Spider-Man ones too. They do one from Spider-Man 2 when Peter stops the train with webbing. In Reaction Peter stop moving truck in same way. I love that.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Honestly, my choice for the voice of Hobgoblin is probably Mark Sheppard. More of a low growl of a voice while also sounding really cultured, shrewd, and calculating.

Imagine this voice coming out of Hobgoblin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ju4w51Rwxk

 

[Jordacar]

I just realized they could've put Hobgoblin in the center of his own twist-filled mystery. They'd just have to throw in Jason Macandale to have all the future Hobs in play. They pulled some epic fake-outs with GG, so I have wonder what kind of narrative gymnastics they might've pulled with his hooded successor.

 

[zeptron]

Except for Shocker being Montana. That not necessary. Should have been Herman Schultz.

I know you've had this debate with UMH before, but I'm just curious, was making Montana Shocker really that drastic of a change? What did anyone really miss about Schultz other than his name? I mean Schultz's name was never even stated in the 90s cartoon. I don't think Shocker's true identity really meant anything anywhere else.

I thought Weisman made a good point when he was asked about this in interview. "Who is Herman Schultz?" What do we know about him other than that he robbed banks?" I also thought making Montana Shocker was a nice move, because like Sandman and Rhino it made him a villain that Spidey had already been tangling with before he became a supervillain.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

I know you've had this debate with UMH before, but I'm just curious, was making Montana Shocker really that drastic of a change? What did anyone really miss about Schultz other than his name? I mean Schultz's name was never even stated in the 90s cartoon. I don't think Shocker's true identity really meant anything anywhere else.

I thought Weisman made a good point when he was asked about this in interview. "Who is Herman Schultz?" What do we know about him other than that he robbed banks?" I also thought making Montana Shocker was a nice move, because like Sandman and Rhino it made him a villain that Spidey had already been tangling with before he became a supervillain.

Weisman also said on the Spectacular Radio podcast "if it makes people happy, maybe Montana's real name is Herman Schultz."

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I know you've had this debate with UMH before, but I'm just curious, was making Montana Shocker really that drastic of a change? What did anyone really miss about Schultz other than his name? I mean Schultz's name was never even stated in the 90s cartoon. I don't think Shocker's true identity really meant anything anywhere else.

I thought Weisman made a good point when he was asked about this in interview. "Who is Herman Schultz?" What do we know about him other than that he robbed banks?" I also thought making Montana Shocker was a nice move, because like Sandman and Rhino it made him a villain that Spidey had already been tangling with before he became a supervillain.

90's cartoon make Electro Red Skull son and make Hobgoblin come before Green Goblin and it not Kinsley either. Nearly all villains work for Kingpin, so it not good idea to use 90's show as example of handling villains right lol.

Shocker being Montana was pointless change. Like Kraven being mutant lion man. Montana work better as part of Enforcers team. If Weisman think two characters are so similar then he have no good reason not to just make Shocker Schultz. Herman could have been Big Man employee.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I'm not going to add anything in depth to this discussion about the whole Montana/Herman/Shocker issue cause it's been done to death and I've spent too much time on it however....

I wanted to add that one of the benefits of making Montana the Shocker, even if you agree or disagree about the change taking place, is that is aided in the mystery surrounding the identity of the Green Goblin. The creators of the show wanted people to believe that Harry was indeed the GG and went to great lengths to conceal the reality and did so with pretty good efficiency. Many were fooled. The results of the final episode prove as much. The point here with Montana as the Shocker helped this premise because people would see how the creators changed the identity of this villain and so they could and would in turn change the identity of the GG. Meaning if they could make Montana into the Shocker, then they could also make the GG Harry. Or at least make him the GG first before Norman. Or maybe never have Norman be the GG. To me, this makes sense from a logical point of view when considering the changes made and the desire to keep the GG's identity a secret. It doesn't necessarily justify the change of the Shocker's identity, for those that dislike the change, but it does give the change some added merit.

 

[zeptron]

90's cartoon make Electro Red Skull son and make Hobgoblin come before Green Goblin and it not Kinsley either. Nearly all villains work for Kingpin, so it not good idea to use 90's show as example of handling villains right lol.

Shocker being Montana was pointless change. Like Kraven being mutant lion man. Montana work better as part of Enforcers team. If Weisman think two characters are so similar then he have no good reason not to just make Shocker Schultz. Herman could have been Big Man employee.

The point being is that Shocker is mostly a C-list villain at best. It wasn't like they changed Doc Ock or Venom's identity or anything.

And the only reason Hobgoblin came before Green Goblin in the 90s show was because of the Hobgoblin toyline being made beforehand. And even then, when Green Goblin came along he was still portrayed as the bigger threat.(though Hobgoblin was still the cooler and more interesting goblin) This also helped develop Norman Osborn's character instead of making him Green Goblin right away. I mean I do have flaws with the 90s show, but I think complaints like this are silly.

And Weisman has also stated that Kraven's lion transformation would have been more important in Spectacular's long term run and that John Jameson would have somehow been involved(Man-Wolf perhaps?). And it wasn't like him becoming a lion was something that the writer's made up for the show.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

The point being is that Shocker is mostly a C-list villain at best. It wasn't like they changed Doc Ock or Venom's identity or anything.

And the only reason Hobgoblin came before Green Goblin in the 90s show was because of the Hobgoblin toyline being made beforehand. And even then, when Green Goblin came along he was still portrayed as the bigger threat.(though Hobgoblin was still the cooler and more interesting goblin) This also helped develop Norman Osborn's character instead of making him Green Goblin right away. I mean I do have flaws with the 90s show, but I think complaints like this are silly.

And Weisman has also stated that Kraven's lion transformation would have been more important in Spectacular's long term run and that John Jameson would have somehow been involved(Man-Wolf perhaps?). And it wasn't like him becoming a lion was something that the writer's made up for the show.

It not matter if Shocker is c-list. It still pointless change that stupid and could have been avoided. If you say he just c-list villain then that make it ok to change identity of all c-list villains and that definitely not ok.

I do not really care why they make Hobgoblin come before Green Goblin in 90's cartoon. It still very wrong. Like when Amazing Spider-Man 2 make Harry Goblin first. Norman should be one who start Goblin legacy. Reason why they do it not make any difference. Wrong is wrong. Like if they do Blackie Drago Vulture before Toomes Vulture. That be wrong too. You say there that you know Hobgoblin before Green Goblin so maybe that why you not care about terrible change http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32227199&postcount=662

I also not care what Weisman say about Kraven lion transformation. It still very stupid and he look so goofy as well. Weisman make mistakes with this show. It not perfect.

 

[zeptron]

You say there that you know Hobgoblin before Green Goblin so maybe that why you not care about terrible change http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32227199&postcount=662

Nope. I just didn't think that it was a huge deal as people make it seem. I guess I'm not as nitpicky as some people are. And I think you're exaggerating a bit there. It wasn't a "terrible" change. Plus it was Mark Hamill. He made the role pretty interesting.

But if it makes you feel any better, John Semper also wasn't fond of having Hobgoblin come first either. You could tell in one of the last episodes that Semper got his "revenge" by having the Green Goblin best the Hobgoblin. I guess that was his way of dealing with his dislike of the idea of having Hobgoblin come first. Not to mention the little aside in I Really Hate Clones about the Green Goblin being the true goblin and all.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

When you think about it, with all the changes made and the ability of this show to still stay so connected to the core truths of each of the characters and the classic stories, the biggest or most popular complaints are that they changed Shocker's identity and made Kraven into a furry kitty cat. In the long list of problems, issues, or mistakes that could have been made when producing this show it's quite impressive that at most, those two complaints are really the only major ones that come up. As far as adaptations go it's easy to see why TSSM is so often quoted as being the best.

 

[zeptron]

When you think about it, with all the changes made and the ability of this show to still stay so connected to the core truths of each of the characters and the classic stories, the biggest or most popular complaints are that they changed Shocker's identity and made Kraven into a furry kitty cat. In the long list of problems, issues, or mistakes that could have been made when producing this show it's quite impressive that at most, those two complaints are really the only major ones that come up. As far as adaptations go it's easy to see why TSSM is so often quoted as being the best.

I actually hardly ever come across complaints about changing Shocker's identity. Especially from people that like Spectacular. If someone does complain about that, it's usually a hardcore and militant fan of Spider-man TAS. Some of these guys don't read comics and base what they know off Spider-man TAS since it's what introduced them to the character and tend to criticize other Spider-man adaptations because "it's not how the 90s show did things" and feel the need to compare just about everything rather than judge stuff on their own merits.

I mean other complaints Spectacular tends to get from the aforementioned people(that's if they're not too busy basing their arguments mostly on the art style) are the show having Peter start out as a teen, a "made-up" love interest(referring to Gwen Stacy) or Peter and Eddie being friends instead of rivals at the Bugle.(in the original comics these two never even met until Eddie became Venom)

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Nope. I just didn't think that it was a huge deal as people make it seem. I guess I'm not as nitpicky as some people are. And I think you're exaggerating a bit there. It wasn't a "terrible" change. Plus it was Mark Hamill. He made the role pretty interesting.

But if it makes you feel any better, John Semper also wasn't fond of having Hobgoblin come first either. You could tell in one of the last episodes that Semper got his "revenge" by having the Green Goblin best the Hobgoblin. I guess that was his way of dealing with his dislike of the idea of having Hobgoblin come first. Not to mention the little aside in I Really Hate Clones about the Green Goblin being the true goblin and all.

Maybe you just more forgiving of bad mistakes? I like Mark Hamill but he sound just like his version of Joker doing Hobgoblin. I still like him but he should have been second or third Goblin to come.

Good that John Semper at least not fan of it but it still happen so damage done.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I actually hardly ever come across complaints about changing Shocker's identity. Especially from people that like Spectacular. If someone does complain about that, it's usually a hardcore and militant fan of Spider-man TAS. Some of these guys don't read comics and base what they know off Spider-man TAS since it's what introduced them to the character and tend to criticize other Spider-man adaptations because "it's not how the 90s show did things" and feel the need to compare just about everything rather than judge stuff on their own merits.

I mean other complaints Spectacular tends to get from the aforementioned people(that's if they're not too busy basing their arguments mostly on the art style) are the show having Peter start out as a teen, a "made-up" love interest(referring to Gwen Stacy) or Peter and Eddie being friends instead of rivals at the Bugle.(in the original comics these two never even met until Eddie became Venom)

I'd say the art-style is the most popular complaint with this show however that has nothing to do with changes made to the source material. I've seen quite a few complaints about Shocker's identity and there's plenty that are fans of the comics...Doctor Octopus is an example.

The complaints about Peter being a teen, having Gwen Stacy as a love interest are just plain silly and are obviously coming from those that are clueless about the original comics.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

And Weisman has also stated that Kraven's lion transformation would have been more important in Spectacular's long term run and that John Jameson would have somehow been involved(Man-Wolf perhaps?). And it wasn't like him becoming a lion was something that the writer's made up for the show.

Man, now I remember there was going to be an encounter between Kraven and the Lizard we're never going to get.

Among other things.

 

[zeptron]

Man, now I remember there was going to be an encounter between Kraven and the Lizard we're never going to get.

Among other things.

Yeah, wasn't it also planned for Peter to go to Florida where he would have met up with the Connors'?