The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread

[craigdbfan]

Thought I'd make this thread to maybe bring some sort of closure to the entire situation going on in the TDKR Info Hunters thread.

Having a separate general discussion and speculation thread might be the answer to keeping that thread more on topic for those who don't like the constant diverging of said topic.

Discuss and speculate here.

 

[QueenChaos]

Good idea t:
Thanks.

 

[Nevincer]

Excellent! Thanks craigdbfan

 

[craigdbfan]

No worries, more credit to you guys for making a good case for it.

 

[Travesty]

Ha, so now we have a TDKR news thread(no discussion), we also have a TDKR news thread where we can discuss, but can't speculate or have general discussion(makes perfect sense ). And now we have a general discussion and speculation thread, which is basically about the news and rumors we hear.

Jesus christ......

 

[craigdbfan]

And the complaining begins.

Did you pay attention to how many times it was becoming an issue in the TDKR Info Hunters thread? People whether justified or not were complaining about the speculative nature of a discussion would head and become divergent of relevance to any of the actual news pertaining to TDKR.

This will hopefully filter that and make it more cohesive. Not necessarily what I think should happen because I was fine with it in the TDKR Hunter Info thread but it was becoming fairly obvious that many others didn't like the tangent discussions going on in there.

 

[Kynergy]

Good, we needed this thread. . Though the off topic discussion is stilling going to happen in the other thread regardless, but hopefully this can keep the mods off the Batboards back.

Ha, so now we have a TDKR news thread(no discussion), we also have a TDKR news thread where we can discuss, but can't speculate or have general discussion(makes perfect sense ). And now we have a general discussion and speculation thread, which is basically about the news and rumors we hear.

Jesus christ......

How much you wanna bet this gets closed soon for having too much off topic discussion.

 

[Travesty]

And the complaining begins.

Just stating the obvious.....

 

[The_Raganork]

this thread rocks

 

[Kynergy]

It rocks my socks. t:

 

[craigdbfan]

So does anyone have any guesses to how important Ra's will be in TDKR. I know some don't like the idea of LOS and Ra's being involved at all but it's obvious it's somehow involved in the plot just how much importance will it hold I wonder?

 

[Gianakin_]

Anne is the cover of Harper Bazaar's Aug 2011 issue (probably why they said they're filming already in Pittsburgh).

Interview - http://www.harpersbazaar.com/magazine/cover/anne-hathaway-interview



Here are the pics:

More here:

Spoiler

Now, THIS is Selina Kyle.

 

[The_Raganork]

So does anyone have any guesses to how important Ra's will be in TDKR. I know some don't like the idea of LOS and Ra's being involved at all but it's obvious it's somehow involved in the plot just how much importance will it hold I wonder?

I've actually talked about this in other threads a lot. No one is ever willing to accept them


To understand it you should first know my views on Bruce Wayne from BB to TDK that can be seen here:

Spoiler

Originally posted by Raganork8
Nolan's films have been about a few things but, none more than Bruce Wayne. Sure Batman is in it but, even then it's still about Bruce Wayne.

BB threat was Ra's Al Ghul, someone Bruce knew well. The big harrowing moment was when Rachel is in danger; she's Bruce's love interest.

TDK: shifted focus on Batman a little more but, in the interest of showing how damaging Batman has been on Bruce's life. Rachel can't believe in Bruce; Bruce feels guilty for the deaths and in the end Batman suffers.

Ultimately these movies, to me, have been about two characters Bruce and Batman. Treated as two different people; they are at ODDS with each other.

Initially Bruce hit a stride with Batman which was a blend of both men but, as he goes on he seems to lose more and more of himself in Batman's plight.

Look at Wayne Corps entire purpose on TDK: To aide Batman, Lau, Reese, The Sonar thing.

It's lost it's soul of Thomas Wayne to be a solely a cover-up for Batman's life.

Look at Bruce, everything he does is focused around Batman: Supporting Harvey chief example of that.

So by the middle of TDK Bruce Wayne is almost gone, when we look at Bale's face we are almost always looking at Batman.

A great moment I think is overlooked is when Joker comes for Harvey at the party and Bruce puts him in the sleeper hold and in Batman voice says: "They've come for him"

Though this may seem like a simple cover-up to protect himself, it's a merging of the characters we haven't really seen before. It's a point in time where Batman is in existence without the Cowl and if that's possible where the hell does Bruce Wayne fit in at that moment?

So TDKR to me has to be the redemption story of Bruce Wayne (I've said before in other threads Bruce has to pick which father he's going to serve the most. Thomas as Bruce or Ra's as Batman?) If Batman has failed to be the incorruptable symbol then WAYNE needs to be that symbol, something I felt Bruce has had wrong for that entire time.

Batman needs to be an extension, a tool for Bruce not the other way around. The Dark Knight is usually associated with Batman but, a lot of times I think it's really about Bruce, the man who wants to right the wrongs of his parents death.

If any rising is going to come from this film I think it has to be Bruce Regaining control of Batman. Remember when Superman died in the comics and there were four superman like characters who came to take his place

One of them (lord forgive me, I can't recall the name) was essentially Superman; Superman if he has never gained the life of Clark Kent from John and Matha; cruel, strict, authoritative...inhuman.

This is the risk Batman is coming across, becoming Batman with no Bruce Wayne to regulate him; that Balance MUST be struck in this final film if it's going to feel triumphant.

So having Batman in front of his parents grave seems like a misstep to me. He's divorced of that; it shows me that Bruce can't let go of Batman and crossing their lives is just another way of losing control.

I feel at the end of the day the cowl HAS to come off in order for Batman to truly work, he has to be something that exist conditionally, not necessarily.

And to see that moment where Bruce stands in front of their graves, like their child, the child we haven't seen since the beginning of Batman Begins, sums up greatly what these films are about.

A full circle won't be something like the title "The Dark Knight Returns"

But rather

Bruce Wayne Returns.

Something we've been waiting for since he left in Batman Begins.

Then to this leads to my idea about what Ra's can do in the film seen here:

Spoiler

Orginally Posted By Raganork8
Did we not all see BB, Ra's is THE character that defines Bruce in the present time. He made Bruce into the man he is.

I said this before he is like Bruce's second father and I have a great belief this film is going to be about which Father Bruce is going to decide to be the son of.

The Man who gave him virtuosity or

The Man who gave him the means to fight injustice?

So it's no surprise to me that a film that features a character who is going to try to convince Bruce to be more philanthropic like his father (Tate) also would include the character who saw Bruce's father as someone weak and urged Bruce to do everything that was necessary to go the distance that his father didn't.

Because a few comics feature Bane and Ra's in the same storyline doesn't mean there isn't another option to have a character that is (so far) STRICTLY a Bruce character be about Bruce.

I'm not saying that he won't have anything to do with Bane, or that he won't have a lot to do with Bane but, this assumption that it can be nothing else always shocks me as Batman Begins is so STRONG in it's implications of Bruce's parts and then Bruce's training.

The Dark Knight Rises

What does that mean? Bruce has run from his League of Shadows heritage because of the fear toxin disaster and TDK showed us (by not showing us) That his parents murder's have taken a side bar to his having to use Wayne tech to make Batman stronger, faster, smarter.

He has to marry those ideas; he has to bring back his Parent's death to continue with his virtue and confront his issue with Ra's and the league of Shadows to remember why he joined them in the first place, what they taught him directly and what they taught him via his confrontation with them.

something I've always explored while watching these films is that at the end of BB Batman says: "I'm not going to kill you...but I don't have to save you"

This is very indicative of the LoS training; it's something I can see Ra's saying; in fact he has a similar line:

You burned my house and left me for dead, consider us even"

What if Ra's was alive during TDK; what would he think of Batman's place in Gotham? Isn't this kind of what he wanted? Batman became gotham's biggest hope and it all comes crashing down, the one person who can protect them is in their crosshairs, if he's destroyed by the people of Gotham then that's it.

"When the Chips are down These Civilized people, will eat each other"

Or eat him? Turning on Batman IS turning on Gotham, surely they don't have a choice given the information they have but:

"sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded"

Shouldn't Bruce/Bat's faith in his city be rewarded? and if it isn't; isn't this Ra's ultimate win?

Now how does that fit in with Young Ra's?

Seeing some of Ra's motives, some of who he was to become the man we know in BB might serve as some insight to who Batman is becoming, a parallel story of sorts.

I don't consider Ra's evil; he's willing to do things for the "greater good" that many people wouldn't; in certain situations, this may make him the hero. He gave Bruce purpose, a new life, turned him from a mourning child to a powerful man.

Exploring briefly what makes Ra's the way he was, what made the man who taught Bruce how to fight crime, might show us more clearly where Batman is failing and what he can do to "Rise"

If we know more about the creator we may learn more about the creation and if Batman can avoid the same falls that turned Ra's Al Ghul into the leader of a group of assassins then maybe he can become something more.

His goal in BB was to become a Symbol, infinite, eternal, incorruptible.

He failed at this, the vision of Batman is tarnished; so maybe its time to look back at the ideals that made Batman in the first place to help him heal those wounds and become the Batman he intended to be.

Ra's motives can be clear, how he goes about things still stays mysterious. I agree his mysteriousness should be kept because that's the appeal of the character.

Young Ra's doesn't need to be a huge thing and If I were doing the film I'd fragment it throughout how long the film is.

What we're exploring are ideas from Young Ra's and Ideals he may have held at some point and then watching the mainstory and seeing where they fit in with each other.

It won't be an origins story at all, it'll be a perfectly integrated mirrored story. While the main story is bombastic and action packed, we have these flashbacks that are calmer showing us the creator of Batman, and by watching this in conjunction with our current Batman we can see what Batman is doing right and what he's doing wrong.

since I used the Father Analogy before, think of it as similar to the scenes with Thomas in BB, they were very quick but, they held a lot of meat. As contrast this film can do the same with Ra's.

By watching both we're forced to examine Batman's actions in comparison with Ra's and how Batman is like Ra's Al Ghul ultimately, something he very much wanted to avoid in BB.

In BB Ra's explained he tried to destroy Gotham through despair via the economy

In TDK Batman tried to save Gotham through hope Via politics by LYING about Harvey's involvement.

They may be trying to achieve two different things but, are these not two sides of the same coin?

Yes; in a previous post I mentioned that I think this movie will be the battle of the son.

which Father will Bruce/Bat choose?

The one who gave him virtuosity or the one who gave him the means to fight injustice.

Is Batman Bruce Wayne's alternate Identity? or is Bruce Wayne Batman's Alternate Identity?

Rachel said it perfect in BB

This is your mask

He has to rectify that.

__________________

 

[craigdbfan]

I seriously couldn't agree more with all of that. Well said.

 

[craigdbfan]

What was that about her not having the "sophistication" or seductive "maturity" of Selina Kyle?

Let that smash to the ground and hard. No offense to Maggie but finally we get a more comic accurate main female lead in terms of appearance to the likeness of those found in the pages of the Batman comic books for a while and in a movie since Begins.

Katie Holmes had this and so does Anne Hathaway.

 

[Mako]

Anne is the cover of Harper Bazaar's Aug 2011 issue (probably why they said they're filming already in Pittsburgh).

Interview - http://www.harpersbazaar.com/magazine/cover/anne-hathaway-interview



Here are the pics:

More here:

Spoiler

 

[TheGreenHornet]

Hello everybody!

I'm sorry to interrupt the Ra's al Ghul speculation...

Is this the correct thread to also speculate on other plot points and what not?

Reason being, is due to the recent ''Plane Landing'' info that we've been given.

Just wanted to check before I posted my thoughts and wasn't sure whether I should post them in the 'Info Hunters' Thread instead.

 

[craigdbfan]

Both I suppose because it sticks to the guidelines of both threads.

In the Info Thread you'd be discussing your reactions to the certain piece of news.

Here you can go into further speculation based on that snippet of news.

 

[The_Raganork]

I seriously couldn't agree more with all of that. Well said.

Thanks!

It's good to know I have 1,

 

[Eggyman]

Now we're two

 

[C. Lee]

Ha, so now we have a TDKR news thread(no discussion), we also have a TDKR news thread where we can discuss, but can't speculate or have general discussion(makes perfect sense ). And now we have a general discussion and speculation thread, which is basically about the news and rumors we hear.

By George...I think he has it.

Jesus christ......

No...just C. Lee will suffice.

Just stating the obvious.....

And we all thank you sincerley for that.

 

[The_Raganork]

Edit: Why do I hear Christopher Lee's Voice whenever C. Lee post?!

 

[Kynergy]

Rag, I'm telling you that stuff on Bruce and Ra's needs to be stickied somewhere

Hello everybody!

I'm sorry to interrupt the Ra's al Ghul speculation...

Is this the correct thread to also speculate on other plot points and what not?

Reason being, is due to the recent ''Plane Landing'' info that we've been given.

Just wanted to check before I posted my thoughts and wasn't sure whether I should post them in the 'Info Hunters' Thread instead.

I guess speculation should go in this thread, cause that seemed to be what made people mad in the last one. But if your just discussing new news, I guess the other thread is fine.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

Both I suppose because it sticks to the guidelines of both threads.

In the Info Thread you'd be discussing a piece of news pertaining to a possible plot point.

Here you can go into further speculation based on that snippet of news.

I suppose I'll start here then!

I'm thinking that Batman, could either have been 'captured' or is trying to stop someone/people from doing something terrible, causing a struggle in the aircraft.

It's interesting to see what will happen though, as it sounds like it's going to be the biggest action sequence of the film.

 

[Travesty]

By George...I think he has it.

I think I do. To clean up these forums, we need to clear up the clutter, by making new threads, that clutter up the forums, when the original ones sufficed. I find the best way to clean my house, is to throw more garbage on the floor.

No...just C. Lee will suffice.

Is it funny how I don't believe in either?

And we all thank you sincerley for that.

Sincerely