The Tim Burton/Kevin Smith Feud

[Noir]

Adam and Jamie are NOT fruits..


...but I wish they were

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

How are you so sure??

 

[Bat Attack]

Jamie's wife was with him at a convention once.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

LOL well I didnt mean it literally, but they sure act like fruits.

 

[Bat Attack]

heh, i always used to think adam and carrie (sexy chick from mythbusters) were married. but alas, i was wrong.

 

[Noir]

Kari is hott

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Yes she is!! Shes acts too cocky though

 

[Bat Attack]

true

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I like her. Always has a smile for the audience.

 

[Carlynn Carnage]

Oh that was funny stuff! I think it was just him doing a funny story more then anything. Whatever. Smith and Burton are 2 vastly different types of movie makers.

 

[Cagefighterkip]

as much as i dig tim burton, kevin smith is way more talented and has a better amount of good movies (all of KS's movies rock, not all of burtons do)

 

[DocLathropBrown]

as much as i dig tim burton, kevin smith is way more talented and has a better amount of good movies (all of KS's movies rock, not all of burtons do)

You're kidding, right?

Smith is an extreme niche director, whereas Burton has been having mainstream appeal since 1985. Smith was nothing more than a weekly reader of comic books when Burton was cleaning up at the box office.

 

[Noir]

cleaning up the Box offices with storys about as deep as a piece of paper, and less character development than a childrens book from the Dollar Store.

 

[TheVileOne]

Oh Jesus Christ. Enough of the petty "My director is better than your director" crap.

At the end of the day, Batman Begins is just as different from the Batman comics as 1989 Batman. IT'S TRUE. It's undeniable.

And you know what? They are both good movies. I love Batman Begins. I love Batman. When I was a kid I couldn't get enough of the Batman films, that's how I was. I didn't care about this this or this. It was just a thrilling, fun matinee to a character that I knew about before I could even learn how to read or probably even walk.

There's nothing paper thin about Frankenweenie or Vincent. I didn't care for Willy Wonka or Planet of the Apes. But I thought Sleepy Hollow and Edward Scissorhands are fantastic films. And while I think you could call the themes of the movie in some way simple they are in no way thin. I don't know how you could just trivialize great performances of Johnny Depp like that who is widely considered to be one of the best thespians in the business.

I've seen Smith do his gatherings a few times. A lot of it is the same schtick which he's turned into a stand-up routine basically, so he tells a lot of the same jokes over and over again.

At the end of the day, Smith knows when he was 18/19 years old he was going bat crap crazy for Batman and he was doing the BAT DANCE too.

 

[El Payaso]

cleaning up the Box offices with storys about as deep as a piece of paper, and less character development than a childrens book from the Dollar Store.

???

Huh? But Smith has never cleaned up the BO's...

 

[DocLathropBrown]

cleaning up the Box offices with storys about as deep as a piece of paper, and less character development than a childrens book from the Dollar Store.

Cleaning up at the box office is still cleaning up at the box office. And he must be doing something right for being so loved.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

There's nothing paper thin about Frankenweenie or Vincent. I didn't care for Willy Wonka or Planet of the Apes. But I thought Sleepy Hollow and Edward Scissorhands are fantastic films. And while I think you could call the themes of the movie in some way simple they are in no way thin. I don't know how you could just trivialize great performances of Johnny Depp like that who is widely considered to be one of the best thespians in the business.

Shhhhhh! Don't use logic to disrupt Noir's dreams of being right about Burton!

 

[Cain]

Smith is a hack director who happens to be a decent writer. Burton is a brilliant director who's "writing" happens to be his use visuals. Smith has 4 notable movies in my opinion and one of those is viciously hated on by a lot of his own fans. Burton has over 4 notable movies IMO so pardon me cause I fail to see the logic in Smith being much better than Burton.

 

[Numez]

I'm indifferent towards most of Burton's films, and I've never had the urge to watch a Kevin Smith film.

 

[Riven]

cleaning up the Box offices with storys about as deep as a piece of paper, and less character development than a childrens book from the Dollar Store.

See, I can understand people claiming Burton's sense of storytelling is more visual than literary. But why is that a bad thing? Is a story told visually less of a story than one told with words and deeply-wrought plotpoints? That would mean silent movies HAVE no story. Or at least very shallow ones. And that's BS. It's no coincidence Burton often cites silent films as a big inspiration. A lot can be told with the way a camera moves, the way a person acts or looks, the way the room he's standing in says something about him.

If you want to call that expressionistic babble to justify style over substance, fine, but don't say it HAS no story to speak of. It does, just not a very literal one that completely oozed from the script.

Otherwise, why are we even spending money making and watching movies? We could just stay home and read screenplays!

Also, I agree that the story may be nonsensical and not very thought through, but one thing it DOES have is character development. It's almost nothing BUT character development. What, Batman isn't developed cause he doesn't go on and on and on with his inner monologue like he does in the little blue boxes in the comics? Most of what Burton has to say about Batman as a character is how he portrays Gotham City, Catwoman, Max Shreck and the Penguin.

Again, is that literal? No. Does he spell it out for us? No. Is that "DEEP AND MEANINGFUL"? I don't know. Probably not. But can you point me to one comic book movie or one comic book that's more meaningful? Even the greats like Alan Moore write Batman as this silent guy about whom we learn more by proxy than through himself. The way the Joker acts in TKJ says more about who Batman is (or isn't) than it does about the Joker.

If you didn't get that, you probably didn't get Returns either. And I'm in no way saying it's some great feat to "get" it either...

A good story or a good movie isn't built up from how many "themes" you can count or exactly how many revealing lines characters say. I'd rather have Batman standing by silently, perhaps inactive, than him going

"It's not who I am underneath, it's what I doooooo that defines me"

because no matter how much I loved Begins, that is a by-the-book corny movie script line I really could have done without...

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I love Burtons films, Smith hasnt done anything to impress me yet.

 

[Cain]

Well said Riven.

 

[El Payaso]

See, I can understand people claiming Burton's sense of storytelling is more visual than literary. But why is that a bad thing? Is a story told visually less of a story than one told with words and deeply-wrought plotpoints? That would mean silent movies HAVE no story. Or at least very shallow ones. And that's BS. It's no coincidence Burton often cites silent films as a big inspiration. A lot can be told with the way a camera moves, the way a person acts or looks, the way the room he's standing in says something about him.

If you want to call that expressionistic babble to justify style over substance, fine, but don't say it HAS no story to speak of. It does, just not a very literal one that completely oozed from the script.

Otherwise, why are we even spending money making and watching movies? We could just stay home and read screenplays!

Also, I agree that the story may be nonsensical and not very thought through, but one thing it DOES have is character development. It's almost nothing BUT character development. What, Batman isn't developed cause he doesn't go on and on and on with his inner monologue like he does in the little blue boxes in the comics? Most of what Burton has to say about Batman as a character is how he portrays Gotham City, Catwoman, Max Shreck and the Penguin.

Again, is that literal? No. Does he spell it out for us? No. Is that "DEEP AND MEANINGFUL"? I don't know. Probably not. But can you point me to one comic book movie or one comic book that's more meaningful? Even the greats like Alan Moore write Batman as this silent guy about whom we learn more by proxy than through himself. The way the Joker acts in TKJ says more about who Batman is (or isn't) than it does about the Joker.

If you didn't get that, you probably didn't get Returns either. And I'm in no way saying it's some great feat to "get" it either...

A good story or a good movie isn't built up from how many "themes" you can count or exactly how many revealing lines characters say. I'd rather have Batman standing by silently, perhaps inactive, than him going

"It's not who I am underneath, it's what I doooooo that defines me"

because no matter how much I loved Begins, that is a by-the-book corny movie script line I really could have done without...

Very well said.

If the story is all about words, let's read the book.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I love Burton, he tells stories, just more visually than not and I don't see anything wrong with that. Not every movie needs an intricate plot with a multi Shamalama twist ending. Every movie Burton has made, with the exception of Apes and Mars Attack, have had at least decent stories to them, you just don't get inter-twining plot exposition.