The Tim Burton/Kevin Smith Feud

[Super_Ludacris]

It aint just fans that are the problem on this board though, but I digress.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I absolutely adore Kevin Smith, and the notion of that being what Burton is like outside of interviews is fascinating and hilarious.

Also, everything he said about Burton is true. The Joker didnt kill Bruce's parents, a thug did. Additionally, Gordon is more than just an interchangable cop. I dont despise Burton's films but i definetly think they're insanely overrated.

Hearing Smith describe Burton and his characteristics (dead-on) was priceless.

 

[Cain]

Even if you don't fully agree with this I don't see how you can't find it funny. Yeah yeah I know "Burton and Hamm were given the 1939 comics for reference etc." but you're honestly gonna tell me nothing in that clip made you lol?

Smith is a crap director but I like him as a writer and he's a funny public speaker. Yeah he contradicts himself yeah he could come across as arrogant and always likes to play the victim but name one person who hasn't done the same in their life?

I'd rank a couple of his movies as some of my favorites of all time. Not cause they were well directed but cause they were well written and had heart. Of course his best days are behind him IMO but I feel the same way about Burton as well.

 

[El Payaso]

Oh, he was just joking around relax. Some of you fanboys take everything so seriously. He even said he enjoyed the film anyway. If Tim Burton ever has a Celeb Roast, you gonna smash your TV Joker style?

No, there's a difference here. Any comedian can come and make fun of Tim Burton all he wants.

The thing with Smith is that he has a personal feud with him. And he holds resentment with Peters also.

Burton rejected his Superman script and he's now bitter about it. It's not some random comedic routine about celebrities, but some personal anger. And it shows, even with the disguise of relaxed random comedic routine.

As a contrast, this is a Spanish Burton parody that goes far beyond what Smith did. It mocks of Burton's way to be a 47 years old teenie, deppressed, lonely child and obssessed with monsters. oh, and hpw he drooled over Lisa Marie's boobs. Even if you don't get the dialogue you can see how the guy mocks about Burton's appaerance.

Butmyou can tell the difference when it's acid humour or when it's personal cheap revenge (Smith didn't become a bigger director than Burton, he just opted for throw cheap jokes at him, took his football and went home).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB-7e2CCz6g

And just as a bonus the hilarious Stewart Lee routine on Ang Lee :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltT9dMGiFjI

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Even if you don't fully agree with this I don't see how you can't find it funny. Yeah yeah I know "Burton and Hamm were given the 1939 comics for reference etc." but you're honestly gonna tell me nothing in that clip made you lol?

Smith is a crap director but I like him as a writer and he's a funny public speaker. Yeah he contradicts himself yeah he could come across as arrogant and always likes to play the victim but name one person who hasn't done the same in their life?

I'd rank a couple of his movies as some of my favorites of all time. Not cause they were well directed but cause they were well written and had heart. Of course his best days are behind him IMO but I feel the same way about Burton as well.

Truth 100%

 

[El Payaso]

Also, everything he said about Burton is true. The Joker didnt kill Bruce's parents, a thug did. Additionally, Gordon is more than just an interchangable cop.

Ah. Ducard is not Ra's and Ra's is not Bruce's mentor. And Flass is not the average glutton fat cop.

What superhero movie doesn't have merged characters or changes of this kind?

 

[Cain]

Ah. Ducard is not Ra's and Ra's is not Bruce's mentor. And Flass is not the average glutton fat cop.

What superhero movie doesn't have merged characters or changes of this kind?

You forgot how they combined Comissioner Gillian Loeb with Comissioner Michael Atkins. Or how they Marvelized Batman by using key points from Iron Man & Daredevil comics throughout the pictures. Bruce's training with the LoS would've been like Matt training with The Hand in the movie world. Ra's Al Ducard = Stick in certain ways.

I'm still mad that they didn't spend the origin time showing him traveling around studying with detectives in Paris, joining FBI academy in the US and Lady Shiva and David Cain in asia etc. doesn't make it a bad movie though just cause they didn't take the advantages I would've with 70 years worth of comics.

When it comes to adaptations you have to fallback as a fanboy and accept whether the changes worked in the context of the universe established by the picture. More often than not the answer is yes that is if you're truly objective about such things which I know is hard for most people to be.

 

[Two-Face]

Even if you don't fully agree with this I don't see how you can't find it funny. Yeah yeah I know "Burton and Hamm were given the 1939 comics for reference etc." but you're honestly gonna tell me nothing in that clip made you lol?

Smith is a crap director but I like him as a writer and he's a funny public speaker. Yeah he contradicts himself yeah he could come across as arrogant and always likes to play the victim but name one person who hasn't done the same in their life?

I'd rank a couple of his movies as some of my favorites of all time. Not cause they were well directed but cause they were well written and had heart. Of course his best days are behind him IMO but I feel the same way about Burton as well.

It sure made me LOL a lot.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Yo...Im saying, Bumble Ward though? LMAO

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Even if you don't fully agree with this I don't see how you can't find it funny. Yeah yeah I know "Burton and Hamm were given the 1939 comics for reference etc." but you're honestly gonna tell me nothing in that clip made you lol?

Smith is a crap director but I like him as a writer and he's a funny public speaker. Yeah he contradicts himself yeah he could come across as arrogant and always likes to play the victim but name one person who hasn't done the same in their life?

I'd rank a couple of his movies as some of my favorites of all time. Not cause they were well directed but cause they were well written and had heart. Of course his best days are behind him IMO but I feel the same way about Burton as well.

Sweeney Todd would beg to differ.

 

[Noir]

Burton's a one trick pony..
And that one trick is: Hot Topic Propaganda, like Subliminal Messaging that says: "Buy Spikey belts! Girl Pants are cool! Give in, Wear Eye-liner like me! Act like you know art!"

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Did you forget to take your meds, Noir?

 

[Noir]

No. Just not a fan of Burton.. He's overrated, I prefer my movies have plots and depth, not just something easy on the eyes.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I see a solid story structure in most of Burton's movies.

 

[Noir]

I don't really.. I mean it there, but its just not really what he cares about (thats what I get from watching his movies)

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Burton is clearly focused on excelling at the visual level. There's nothing wrong with that. He's the type of guy who lives inside his own cognitive universe, and wants to share it with anyone willing. We know there's some pretentiousness there.... but not enough for me to discredit him. I respect his style. It's refreshing.

I can understand why some high school girls use Burton merchandise to distinguish themselves. The fangirls I talked to every morning on the bus were of a social fringe; intelligent and creative, but not widely liked, so it's no wonder they could identify with him.

 

[Noir]

it was.. a social fringe at one point, but now..

 

[Cain]

Sweeney Todd would beg to differ.

Ah yes I forgot that one as it's been months since I've seen it but I did rather enjoy it. His best since Big Fish everything he made between those 2 though was below par. Same with everything he made between Mars Attacks! (yeah I liked it) and Big Fish. Burton used to be very consistent IMO now I feel he's very hit and miss. Don't get me wrong I still prefer his style of filmmaking to a lot of other people as I love visual storytelling but a lot of his post-Ed Wood projects just don't have any heart to them they come across as very cold and empty to me.

 

[Noir]

Good Burton movies:
Ed Wood
Batman & BR
Mars Attacks

Good Kevin Smith movies:
Clerks.
Mallrats
Chasing Amy
Dogma
Clerks II

 

[Cain]

Mallrats and Dogma are highly subjective. I personally always liked Mallrats but a lot of people including many Smith fans loathe that movie. Dogma to me personally wasn't all that great just ok. I can't even begin to compare their filmographies to be honest cause Burton is a more varied filmmaker. But for the sake of it here are my faves from each

Burton

Beetlejuice
Big Fish
Ed Wood
BATMAN
Batman Returns
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Sweeney Todd
Mars Attacks!

Smith

Clerks
Clerks II
Chasing Amy
Mallrats

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Burton's a one trick pony..
And that one trick is: Hot Topic Propaganda, like Subliminal Messaging that says: "Buy Spikey belts! Girl Pants are cool! Give in, Wear Eye-liner like me! Act like you know art!"

Thats total bs and you know it. Burton has nothing to do with that stuff, just because his films are widely loved and adored by "goths" or Hot Topic kids etc., has nothing to do with him or his creative endeavors in film making. His films especially TNBC and others have a large merchandise following, and it sells, he dosent make movies for that, its the companies producing banking on it.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Sweeney Todd would beg to differ.

...and the movie going public would too

@ the BO numbers.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

...and the movie going public would too

@ the BO numbers.

Its a extravagant musical, what do you expect??

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Its a extravagant musical, what do you expect??

Decent numbers actually. Especially for a musical that came out in the holiday season with Johnny Depp in top billing and a lotta promotion.

Im not saying it was gonna break records, but I thought it would have done much better than it did. Did it make a $100 Mil? I was suprised....

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I was a little too, usually the teeny boppers all come out in numbers for anything Johnny Depp, oh well it was still a great film, I loved it and im not an avid fan of musicals either.