The Vladimir Putin Discussion Thread

[Six]

Yeah, I get sick to my stomach whenever I see his name. He's got the blood of 300 innocent people on his hands. The sooner he's gone the better.

 

[SV Fan]

Looks like the Russian Ruble going down the tubes with the price of gas. Where is all those Republican Putan lovers now who were putting down Obama like 6 months ago saying how great Putan was and put down Obama's sanctions put on Russia(which is only hurting them more)

 

[hippie_hunter]

Looks like the Russian Ruble going down the tubes with the price of gas. Where is all those Republican Putan lovers now who were putting down Obama like 6 months ago saying how great Putan was and put down Obama's sanctions put on Russia(which is only hurting them more)

First of all, your criticism is stupid. And yes, I am flat out calling it stupid.

First of all, while many Republicans were ignorantly criticizing Obama over Putin's actions, they weren't Putin lovers. They weren't supporting Putin, they were stupidly calling Obama weak as if he had any true control over the situation and as if he could do anything about it. But don't portray them as Putin lovers. If you're going to criticize the other side for being stupid, criticize them over what they're actually being stupid over, not pulling **** out of your ass and portraying them as something that they're not. And I'll admit that I'm being harsh, but I do the same thing to my own side when Republicans stupidly try to portray the left and Democrats as things that they are not.

Second, it's Putin, not Putan.

And finally, I disagree that sanctions have been hurting Putin. If anything they've been solidifying his grip on power. Putin remains wildly popular in Russia because Russians are blaming the West for their economic woes due to the sanctions as opposed to the stupid economic policies their government has waged during Putin's rule. Typically when an economy is such a dire state of free fall, the people turn against their rulers, just like how Russians did during the fall of the Soviet Union. But sanctions have allowed the West to become the boogeyman in the eyes of Russians and Putin has used that to boost himself to an 80% approval rating when he shouldn't.

And frankly, when you look at a historical measure, sanctions just don't work. Just ask how well sanctions against regimes in Cuba, Iran, Iraq, and North Korea have worked. All sanctions do is just hurt the general populace who are completely innocent of the atrocious actions of their governments while the oppressors continue to enrich themselves and solidify their grip on power. The best way to fight Russia is not by sanctions, but by hitting them where it would really hurt, by weaning Europe of Russian oil and gas. The United States has such a massive glut of supply of the stuff and we should be making it easier to ship it to Europe and make them dependent on North America for energy supplies and less dependent on Russia and Gazprom. The best way to topple an oppressive regime is by exposing the people to American ideals and culture, not by hurting the people we're supposedly sorry for by cutting them off from the world.

 

[SV Fan]

First of all, while many Republicans were ignorantly criticizing Obama over Putin's actions, they weren't Putin lovers. They weren't supporting Putin, they were stupidly calling Obama weak as if he had any true control over the situation and as if he could do anything about it. But don't portray them as Putin lovers. If you're going to criticize the other side for being stupid, criticize them over what they're actually being stupid over, not pulling **** out of your ass and portraying them as something that they're not. And I'll admit that I'm being harsh, but I do the same thing to my own side when Republicans stupidly try to portray the left and Democrats as things that they are not.

[YT]AyYjQUKD5fQ[/YT]

Just watch this clip for all the Fox News clips were it sounds like Republicans are going all gaga over Putin(1:10 into the video). You can't tell me they don't sound like a bunch of admires(Putin great, Obama bad). I didn't say anything about them supporting Putin's action just they seemed to have this lust for him

 

[hippie_hunter]

[YT]AyYjQUKD5fQ[/YT]

Just watch this clip for all the Fox News clips were it sounds like Republicans are going all gaga over Putin(1:10 into the video). You can't tell me they don't sound like a bunch of admires(Putin great, Obama bad).

The moment I saw Cenk Uygur and the Young Turks, I couldn't even bother taking that video seriously. And watching even further, Uygur is clearly taking those comments out of context. It's so bad that I couldn't even finish it. Pundits like Uygur, Maddow, and Schultz are just as preposterous and absurd as their right-winged counterparts on Fox News.

They're not saying Putin great, Obama bad. They're saying Putin bad, Obama weak. They're not praising Putin. They're ignorantly trying to make the case that Obama is weak against Putin. Big difference.

 

[SV Fan]

They're not saying Putin great, Obama bad. They're saying Putin bad, Obama weak. They're not praising Putin. They're ignorantly trying to make the case that Obama is weak against Putin. Big difference.

But Putin is macho and Obama wears mom jeans.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But Putin is macho and Obama wears mom jeans.

They're still not praising him. They still see him as the bad guy. They're just trying to portray him as tougher in order to make Obama look even weaker. Don't get me wrong, it's an utterly ignorant criticism, but it's not the way you're trying to make it out to be.

The best way to fight the Obama is weak criticisms is by actually using the most simplistic of logic, not by mischaracterizations. Do you know how many times I have gotten the "Obama is weak" right-wingers to either shut up or backtrack to their original talking non-nonsensical point (while deep down they know I won), by simply saying "If you're in charge, what would you have done differently?" or "What do you expect Obama to do?" Because here's the thing, they're not experts in foreign policy or have any understanding of geopolitical theater. Their understanding comes from watching an unhealthy amount of Fox News.

And then I like to put salt on the wound by saying what I would do differently if I were in Obama's shoes simply because I know what I'm talking about and they don't .

 

[SV Fan]

They're still not praising him. They still see him as the bad guy. They're just trying to portray him as tougher in order to make Obama look even weaker. Don't get me wrong, it's an utterly ignorant criticism, but it's not the way you're trying to make it out to be.

Well there is ways to say Obama is weak without gushing about how wonderful Putin is in a manly sense. As I was saying no where did I say they agree with Putin, they just seem to have a crush on him(you know how some girls like the bad boys). He is manly man who is macho and fights bears and they like him for that(but not in a homosexual way since homosexuality is evil), in other words they sound like a bunch of 13 year old females talking about the "wild one" in a boy band.

 

[regwec]

Weird post.

Anyway, Putin is an incompetent megalomaniac, which is one of the more pitiful phenomena recurrent throughout history.

 

[Snow Queen]

Welcome to Military Disneyland, where you can drive tanks, shoot guns and buy iPhone cases with Putin's face on them.

 

[edwardc]

This guy is nothing special just a want to be tough guy.

 

[regwec]

But also barking mad, with a geopolitical-sized inferiority complex.

 

[Hobgoblin]

US Sending Tanks and Armor to Europe

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/politics/us-armor-tanks-europe-russia-ash-carter/index.html

(CNN)The U.S. military will be sending dozens of tanks, Bradley armored fighting vehicles and self-propelled howitzers to allied countries in the Baltics and Eastern Europe in response to Russian actions in the Ukraine, Defense Secretary Ash Carter said Tuesday.

The equipment, enough to arm one combat brigade, will be positioned in Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania and Poland, Carter announced at a press conference with U.S. allies in Estonia.

Carter said the equipment will be moved around Europe for training and exercises.

RELATED: Carter embarks on European tour with attention fixed on Russia

The U.S. defense chief also said Washington and its NATO allies will be boosting cyber defense efforts.

"We must prepare NATO and our allies for cyber challenges, particularly from Russia," Carter said in prepared remarks.

Carter's announcement comes during a week-long tour of Europe.

"We need to explain to those who doubt the value of our NATO commitments that the security of Europe is vital to everything else we hold dear," Carter said at a press event with his German counterpart Monday.

RELATED: U.S. - Russia military tit for tat raises fears of greater conflict

While Carter won't be visiting Russia on this trip, Russian President Vladimir Putin's influence looms over the tour's discussions.

"One of [Putin's] stated views is a longing for the past and that's where we have a different perspective on the world and even on Russia's future," he told reporters en route to Germany, in response to a question about whether Putin is a rational actor. "We'd like to see us all moving forward, Europe moving forward, and that does not seem to be his stated perspective."

 

[redfirebird2008]

Anyone watch this HBO show "VICE" about the rising tension between the West and Russia? Scary stuff. Hopefully both sides will just chill out.

 

[regwec]

The Russian regime survives by stoking anti-Western sentiment amongst its misgoverned and impoverished people, so I doubt that will happen.

 

[DeadPresident]

Anyone watch this HBO show "VICE" about the rising tension between the West and Russia? Scary stuff. Hopefully both sides will just chill out.

The West will either have to let them be, or bomb the **** out of them. Lethal force is all that society will respond to.

 

[regwec]

I don't think we really want nuclear holocaust.

 

[redfirebird2008]

The Russian regime survives by stoking anti-Western sentiment amongst its misgoverned and impoverished people, so I doubt that will happen.

What was sad is they interviewed a lady who works for Russia Today in the U.S. That's a TV channel funded by the Russian government but she is exposed to U.S. media obviously...and she still believes everything the Russian government tells her despite all kinds of evidence that they are brainwashing their people.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I'm in a "discussion" on Bookface with 2 well-reasoned gentlemen who think this statement needs to be heeded by the American government:

In Russia live Russians, any minority from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Rusian, and should respect the Russian laws, if they prefer Sharia law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law,Russia does not need minorities, minorities need Russia,and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how hard they yell "discrimination"

I then pointed out that Putin is a dictator in everything, but name and regularly assassinates political dissidents and jails his own citizens with questionable evidence. I was then told that I was being biased for pointing these things out and that we should take the sentence with absolutely no context other than its content. I apoligized immediately because I had no idea from their white skin that they were 100% Native American but quickly found out that was not the case. They are just firm believers in everyone in America needs to speak American and we don't need no Sharia Law here!

I had a good laugh and said good day because at that point I knew there was absolutely no use in continuing the conversation

 

[Victarion]

I find myself agreeing with about 1/4 of that Putin statement. I don't agree with his handling of political dissidents, nor do I think that his shaky jailing policy (or political assassinations) belong in the civilized world. I do not think that we need Shariah Law here (or any special laws that impose upon the wellbeing of another individual). I like to think that my country is a safe haven for people fleeing from that bit of misogyny.

He is a dictator, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should automatically discount everything he says as bunk. There might be something useful buried in the mountains of dross.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Who exactly is trying to institute Sharia Law in America though? I did not get the memo that was being passed by the house or congress and as far as I know, secret Muslim Obama has yet to sign an executive order instituting it either

 

[Victarion]

No one that I am aware of. For the sake of the argument in your post, I assumed it was on the table for debating.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

No one that I am aware of. For the sake of the argument in your post, I assumed it was on the table for debating.

These gentleman on Bookface were under the impression that Sharia Law is somehow being instituted here in America. I did not get that memo

 

[Victarion]

I'd say "assumption" would be more appropriate than "impression." And, you know...

 

[Marvolo]

These gentleman on Bookface were under the impression that Sharia Law is somehow being instituted here in America. I did not get that memo

Well it kind of is just not in the way those bookface gentlemen think. Some of the far right evangelicals would love to push their own form of sharia law down our throats. Arresting gays, being cruel to minorities without legal repercussions, shaming women for having sex outside of marriage, denying women necessary health care services and birth control etc. because of what's said in the bible is just another brand of sharia law.