The Winter Soldier vs Civil War

[hafizbat]

Almost identical critical and audience responses. Which do you prefer?

 

[Rowsdower!]

They're both great. I think I'll give the edge to TWS though; the story was a little tighter. Although CW was more fun all around.

 

[Drz]

Winter Soldier is ruined by scapegoating the villains into an outside organization, foreign terrosit group Hydra. If the villain had been the American Government from the inside and out, it would have been the Dark knight of the MCU.

This is why Civil War edges out Winter Soldier, both Zemo and Iron Man are flawed human beings. Iron Man is burned out and emotional scavanged, where as Zemo is seeking revenge and it is Black Panther who learns that the desire of vengeance can be healed.

Civil War also uses information war as a theme, which is very fitting in today's internet bubbles, where we make the reality we want to believe and truth gets ignored.

 

[metaphysician]

Winter Soldier is ruined by scapegoating the villains into an outside organization, foreign terrosit group Hydra. If the villain had been the American Government from the inside and out, it would have been the Dark knight of the MCU.

It would have also made the setting unusable from there on it. Astonishing that they would choose to do otherwise. . .

 

[Drz]

Yet we have Thunderbolt Ross and the UN trying to chain up vigilantes and the movie ends with our heroes in prison.

Hydra wasn't needed there.

 

[third3ye]

This is a high class problem since both films are top notch. Compared to each other, there's pluses and minuses - TWS has a tighter story and introduced the widely popular interpretation of modern Cap, while CW has better action (and TWS was already tough to beat in that department) and satisfying character arc climax between Steve and Tony, etc etc.

So for me it comes down to rewatchability, and I voted for CW simply because I can see myself watching this many more times than TWS, even though I did watch TWS puh-lenty of times. CW has more spectacle, a ton more Marvel characters (including Spidey), and the action scenes edge out TWS, all while still maintaining an engaging level of depth.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I go TWS, but it's incredibly close (much like this poll, which is currently 5-5).

 

[WarMachine68]

CW had a lot of cool stuff in it, but overall TWS was a better movie

 

[TeeKay]

TWS but what they did with CW was incredible. They pulled it off.

 

[Timebomb]

Love them both. I think BP tips it in CW's favor. He was so well done.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Civil War. I have some issues with the third act of The Winter Soldier, with the involvement of Hydra and an ordinary 'plug three MacGuffins into the device to win the game' plot.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

TWS is nearly flawless, it works on almost every level except for maybe the emotional aspect of Cap and Buck's friendship. Civil War is a great movie but I think the third act is a little weak and in a way deflates aspects of the first 2 acts. Both still amazing movies though.

Reading some of the other responses I wonder whether some people put enough attention to TWS, its not the first time in this forum I read the criticism that Hydra's infiltration in SHIELD somehow ruins the social commentary of the film. It's not really as simple as that, the most important aspect of this is that Fury INVENTED project Insight and the world council was completely okay with it. That social/political commentary is already there and inherent to the story, Hydra's role in the film is to take Project Insight one step further otherwise you don't have a movie.

 

[Web-Head]

I think I still have to lean towards TWS. But it's close.

 

[redlion2]

Both films were incredibly well done but I give the nod to Civil War, at least right now. I think CW was a more ambitious film that could have easily been disatrous but the Russos pulled it off. Also, they portrayed my favorite character, T'Challa, magnificently on screen.

 

[StormC]

Winter Soldier wins in plot, Civil War wins in character. Giving the edge to CW for its impressive ensemble, emotions and scope.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

I've only seen CW once, so I'll get an opportunity to appreciate it more in detail with more viewings. However, I am pretty confident when I say I think TWS is the stronger film. I've used this analogy in another thread, but in comparing the two I'd say CW is a all-you-can-eat buffet where everything is decent but not A+, but TWS is a three-course meal prepped personally by your favourite chef.

TWS has a tighter plot, more in-depth character development and arcs, and action scenes that have a real sense of danger and stakes. There's no question that it's a Captain America movie, and the film never strays from that focus. There are fewer characters (not a bad thing IMO), but each has arc that not only shows them kicking ass but also gives them scenes to really develop (the actors actually get to act). I also liked the more serious tone and how it's rooted in social commentary that's relevant in the real world (i.e. surveillance as protection). The visuals and score are also better (practical effects/stunts >>> CGI)

CW did a good job with all the characters and subplots that it had, and I liked that ventured into more personal, darker and morally-grey territory. However, I think having so many characters and subplots meant that it was stretched thin in some places. Ant-Man and Spiderman - while fun and done well for the most part - really didn't need to be there and just took precious minutes from characters that had real stakes in the plot. The airport battle at times felt like an excuse to bash toys together in creative and fan-pleasing ways, rather than depicting dramatic conflict. For me, the film didn't deliver the promised emotional gut-punches until the third act.

CW has the more ambitious premise and had more potential than TWS, and in most areas it delivers well. However, it does suffer from bloat from being obligated to include so many characters, some of which didn't need to be there. IMO if you're going to include a character or scenes, it better be done for plot-related reasons and not just for marketability. I can understand why a comic-book fan would love seeing Spider-Man and Ant-Man, but at the end of the day I personally am more concerned with how well each character fits into the plot.

 

[InternetPeople]

Winter Soldier, the smaller character count helps keep focus. Civil War is great fun though, except for Tony, because Bucky killed his mom.

 

[Xrated48]

I would go with TWS over civil war but's it so close as these are my two favorite marvel movies behind my favorite comic book movie of all time The Dark Knight

 

[ripse]

Cap 2 TWS - Have 4 Hero Character, Great CGI and Story, my score 9.7/10

Cap 3 CW - Have 12 Hero Character, Brilliant, Good CGI but Story is Perfect, my score 10+/10


So The Winner Cap 3

 

[Silver Surfer]

CW has Spider-Man, enuff said.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I've only seen CW once, so I'll get an opportunity to appreciate it more in detail with more viewings. However, I am pretty confident when I say I think TWS is the stronger film. I've used this analogy in another thread, but in comparing the two I'd say CW is a all-you-can-eat buffet where everything is decent but not A+, but TWS is a three-course meal prepped personally by your favourite chef.

TWS has a tighter plot, more in-depth character development and arcs, and action scenes that have a real sense of danger and stakes. There's no question that it's a Captain America movie, and the film never strays from that focus. There are fewer characters (not a bad thing IMO), but each has arc that not only shows them kicking ass but also gives them scenes to really develop (the actors actually get to act). I also liked the more serious tone and how it's rooted in social commentary that's relevant in the real world (i.e. surveillance as protection). The visuals and score are also better (practical effects/stunts >>> CGI)

CW did a good job with all the characters and subplots that it had, and I liked that ventured into more personal, darker and morally-grey territory. However, I think having so many characters and subplots meant that it was stretched thin in some places. Ant-Man and Spiderman - while fun and done well for the most part - really didn't need to be there and just took precious minutes from characters that had real stakes in the plot. The airport battle at times felt like an excuse to bash toys together in creative and fan-pleasing ways, rather than depicting dramatic conflict. For me, the film didn't deliver the promised emotional gut-punches until the third act.

CW has the more ambitious premise and had more potential than TWS, and in most areas it delivers well. However, it does suffer from bloat from being obligated to include so many characters, some of which didn't need to be there. IMO if you're going to include a character or scenes, it better be done for plot-related reasons and not just for marketability. I can understand why a comic-book fan would love seeing Spider-Man and Ant-Man, but at the end of the day I personally am more concerned with how well each character fits into the plot.

The bold/underlined is the reason is TWS is a better film.

CW lacks necessary setup/transitions for too many sequences, which starts to detract from the story. It's just that the element of fun/spectacle with all the characters tends to cover it up. It's a movie that shouldn't work, but does because the MCU has been fleshed out already. The third act continues to be my problem - particularly with the letter. It's bad enough I already knew they will be teaming up for Infinity Wars, but an attempt at resolution was completely unnecessary. The so-called "divide" just doesn't have as much weight to it when Cap is already apologizing literally one scene after their huge brawl.

On the other hand, TWS developed seamlessly over three acts and allowed its characters to breathe. Nobody was wasted or shoehorned in - they were all integral players. The third act is infinitely more satisfying as Cap lays down arms and refuses to continue fighting Bucky. I knew he wouldn't die, but watching him heartbroken and falling into the water allowed me to imagine what it would be like if he did. Just a very somber moment. The choreography for the action sequences from the opening ship raid, the attempt on Fury's life, and then the first/last Cap/Bucky fights - best in class when it comes to the MCU.

What's amazing about TWS is that I found Cap a bore in his first movie. The Russos managed to take the franchise and make it my favorite in the MCU.

 

[BoredGuy]

It really is just so damn close

For TWS, I'd say:
It's a tighter film than its successor, and moves along at a wonderful pace. It's got a strong core cast who all give phenominal performances. It has some amazing setpieces and probably the best hand to hand combat shown in a Marvel film. It also fully embraces its political thriller influences, and addresses some interesting topics. For weaknesses, the film is let down by a slightly tired 3rd act that feels perhaps too unintentionally similar to the ending of TFA and relies on mass destruction. The emotion around Bucky also doesn't fully land, but that one can be chocked up to TFA not developing him enough.

For CW:
Bombastic action out the a**. Wonderful, emotional performances from everyone involved, especially Evans, RDJ, Stan, Boseman, Bruhl, Olsen, and Bettany. This movie's ability to not allow the story to be crushed under the weight of all the characters it has to service is remarkable. It also has one of the best 3rd acts in CBM history, imo. It's weaknesses would include some pacing issue, especially early on, some dodgy CGI here and there, and the overabundance of characters. While I loved Ant-man and Spider-man was perfectly fine, neither of them needed to be there. I can also see how Zemo's plans relied on quite a bit of luck and coincidence. But I thought the emotion paid it off well enough to excuse whatever convenience was involved in the villain plot.

so yeah, very close, but mayyybe I'd give it to TWS by a hair
but we'll see what happens after more viewings of CW

 

[Summoner]

Captain America: Civil War. Partially because nearly every character was fleshed out, and the characters that weren't fleshed out stole the show. Ant-Man, Hawkeye, Spider-Man, and Black Panther kicked all kinds of ass: every single line they delivered was awesome. Captain America refusing to surrender his freedom, and fearful of implications of the sokovia accords, Iron Man's guilt, Black Widow being the most caring member of the family, Wanda being fearful of her powers, Bucky wanting out of the action, Baron Zemo being sympathetic, and Vision feeling the affects of humanity.

They brought together the grittiness of The Winter Soldier, merged it impeccably with The Avengers's popcorn fun, Guardians of The Galaxy's scene stealing characters, and Age of Ultron's character depth. The Airport Battle still blows my mind, and the final fight had me feeling intensity I don't remember feeling in a superhero movie. That is how you balance multiple characters in a movie. That is how you execute long-form storytelling. That is how you do Spider-Man.

The Winter Soldier is in my Top 3 Marvel Cinematic Universe movies (top 3 are Civil War, Guardians of The Galaxy, and then The Winter Soldier): has more variety in action sequences. Politically astute. Had the second best villain in the franchise, and emotional pay-off. It boosts a tighter story then it's successor, but tighter plotting doesn't necessarily equate to better. It made Captain America awesome-er (because I'm of the firm belief he was awesome in his first film too), Black Widow was a badass, and Falcon has become a favourite of mine. It is an action movie. A superhero movie. A political thriller...

... but put in simple terms? Civil War is better.

 

[KevanG]

After watching TWS a few times, I just don't like it as much as other MCU movies. It's kinda meh to me.

CW I enjoyed quite a bit on first viewing, especially the airport fight.

 

[Slade W]

The Winter Soldier IMO.