The Wrestling Thread is not your decision you stupid Americans - - - Part 197

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

Did 3 Minute Warning even have many actual matches? I mostly remember them just coming to the ring and beating down whoever Bischoff had a problem with.

Vs. Billy and Chuck at Unforgiven 2002

Vs. Bubba Dudley, Spike Dudley and Jeff Hardy in an elimination tables match at Survivor Series 2002- fun match

Appearances in 2003 Royal Rumble

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Not surprised by the tweet. Joe wrestled O'Reilly last night in a really good match.

I heard it was a damn good match.

 

[The Sage]

This article nails it about Reigns: http://411mania.com/wrestling/who-is-roman-reigns/

 

[Samurai_Adam]

I'm watching some old RAW's from 2002. Man, 3 Minute Warning was a great, short lived monster heel tag team. Sucks it didn't last long....

Absolutely. I used to love how Bischoff would summon them to the ring.

 

[The Batman]

This article nails it about Reigns: http://411mania.com/wrestling/who-is-roman-reigns/

I had the same exact reaction the writer did when I first saw the "One VS All" T Shirt

 

[Wheels]

One vs All is supposed to be like DTA. The idea is that Reigns doesn't trust anyone after The Shield break up, which doesn't work now because he's gotten a little chummy with Bryan. It's meant to be a lone wolf thing.

 

[The Sage]

I had the same exact reaction the writer did when I first saw the "One VS All" T Shirt

One vs All is supposed to be like DTA. The idea is that Reigns doesn't trust anyone after The Shield break up, which doesn't work now because he's gotten a little chummy with Bryan. It's meant to be a lone wolf thing.

I haven't paying much attention so this is the first time hearing about the shirt. And they botched creating the reason for it.

 

[The Sage]

We noted back in February that WWE Hall of Famer Scott Hall was brought to the WWE Performance Center. Hall attended the monthly private NXT event that the company does with mostly talents that aren’t on the main NXT shows.


Triple H has been pushing to get Hall more involved with developmental but wants to take things slow due to Hall’s track record.

Hall received rave reviews at the Performance Center for his work while there. Everyone at NXT was impressed with how healthy Hall seemed. Other NXT trainers were said to be impressed also and gave Hall high marks when reporting back to Triple H on how everything went.

http://dailywrestlingnews.com/backstage-news-triple-h-scott-halls-wwe-future-hall-impresses/

 

[Hunter Rider]

It's great because I remember years back when he did his comeback, he would string a series of big moves together. His match last night had the same moves, but executed at different moments, and it was well-paced. He'd execute it, then take a moment to sell the beating he took. AJ's very fluid in the ring.

It really is a shame he never got the big stage and probably won't. He's doing great work in Japan and that's a great place for him to be. But man, can you imagine an AJ Styles vs Daniel Bryan match or vs Seth Rollins at Mania? Talk about showstoppers!

That's the thing with AJ, you could recite his move order like the chorus of a song in his younger days, but now he mixes up his offense by throwing moves in at different times, using different transitions to go into them and not always using them all, he really did become the best since HBK for a spell and is arguably still in with Bryan and Rollins for the title of best worker in the game today. He is also pretty unique in that he has the high flying offense to pop a crowd like HBK or Rollins, but he is also a pretty powerful athlete as well and more physical than other guys his size, kinda like Benoit was.

Those would be great matches but sadly the ship has sailed and even if AJ did go to WWE now he'd never get treat well enough to get either match, I mean this is a company that saw Punk and Bryan get more over than anyone in years and forced one out and are currently in the middle of burying the other, so at 38 AJ would be used as an enhancement talent.

Does just being in the ring with a legend REALLY always help a guy? I mean people within the business say it does because the promoter is putting a young guy in a big spot, but is the actual feud, outcome, and aftermath as unimportant as some make it out to be? Regardless of if the company sees it as a good thing, is a guy going to come out looking great after losing a big match to a legend, and then the company doesn't have a plan for the young guy after that? Because that feels like what usually happens.

WWE use the match with a Legend idea in the same way they use the US and IC titles, they think that alone they can get a guy over and ignore the booking that is required to follow up on it. I also think if you are talking a match with HBK/Angle in the past or say current day Cena the hard fought loss can be spun into a positive if they have a place to go afterwards, but losses to guys like Taker and Triple H who are 90% retired only reinforces the view that these young Lions are not ready to hunt no matter how close the match is.

Basically WWE are reliant on script writers, booking crutches and 50/50 booking and it's why most guys struggle to break out from the pack.

Not surprised by the tweet. Joe wrestled O'Reilly last night in a really good match.

O'Reilly is the best young talent on the indies IMO.

This article nails it about Reigns: http://411mania.com/wrestling/who-is-roman-reigns/

Man that dude stole some of a post I wrote on here months ago!

 

[Slushy]

Does just being in the ring with a legend REALLY always help a guy?

Yes, but you have to good booking to follow up on it otherwise you become an afterthought like Rob Conway.


Brock Lesnar defeating legends helped legitimize him.


Randy Orton got over by beating legends.


Feuding with The Rock increased Cena's stock. Challenging Rock also made Rusev a big deal.


Feuding with Undertaker is a plus for Wyatt.

 

[Warhammer]

Yes, but you have to good booking to follow up on it otherwise you become an afterthought like Rob Conway.


Brock Lesnar defeating legends helped legitimize him.


Randy Orton got over by beating legends.


Feuding with The Rock increased Cena's stock. Challenging Rock also made Rusev a big deal.


Feuding with Undertaker is a plus for Wyatt.

When Orton was the Legend Killer, he was on fire. And with Wyatt, I've warmed up to him vs Undertaker now. Even though Undertaker will win for Sting (more than likely), this will get Wyatt over as long as they don't put him in limbo like they did post-Wrestlemania XXX. The man was on fire then all of a sudden...

 

[The Sage]

- WWE Hall of Famer Jim Ross recently appeared on SiriusXM’s “At the Fights” and was asked about the Bill DeMott controversy. Ross noted that he’s known Demott for years. He told Steve Austin when DeMott was hired that the company hired a defensive line coach to be the head coach, which could be extremely good or risky.

Ross also mentioned that the kids have changed over the last 10 years, and you have to wonder what the future leaders of the country will be like if they can’t take rejection or they feel like they are entitled to something they haven’t earned. He said that DeMott is a hard nosed loyal guy who loves the business, and that he wants people to do things with great toughness and respect for the business. JR noted that having said that, DeMott is no different than anyone else.

JR pointed out that there is a lot of political incorrectness in gyms and training camps, and that bullying and homophobic slurs are commonplace in those environments. He said that DeMott is a tough guy that would tell you what time it is instead of how to make the watch, so he’s sure there were times when he was a little harsh or tough, but he doesn’t believe he was unfair.

http://www.pwmania.com/jim-ross-weighs-in-on-the-bill-demott-controversy

 

[Wheels]

When Orton was the Legend Killer, he was on fire. And with Wyatt, I've warmed up to him vs Undertaker now. Even though Undertaker will win for Sting (more than likely), this will get Wyatt over as long as they don't put him in limbo like they did post-Wrestlemania XXX. The man was on fire then all of a sudden...

Randy had a year long feud with Taker pretty much while he was active. Bray's working with Taker for one match, and then creative has to get him a feud after Mania. I don't trust WWE to keep him hot.

 

[Specter313]

- WWE Hall of Famer Jim Ross recently appeared on SiriusXM’s “At the Fights” and was asked about the Bill DeMott controversy. Ross noted that he’s known Demott for years. He told Steve Austin when DeMott was hired that the company hired a defensive line coach to be the head coach, which could be extremely good or risky.

Ross also mentioned that the kids have changed over the last 10 years, and you have to wonder what the future leaders of the country will be like if they can’t take rejection or they feel like they are entitled to something they haven’t earned. He said that DeMott is a hard nosed loyal guy who loves the business, and that he wants people to do things with great toughness and respect for the business. JR noted that having said that, DeMott is no different than anyone else.

JR pointed out that there is a lot of political incorrectness in gyms and training camps, and that bullying and homophobic slurs are commonplace in those environments. He said that DeMott is a tough guy that would tell you what time it is instead of how to make the watch, so he’s sure there were times when he was a little harsh or tough, but he doesn’t believe he was unfair.

http://www.pwmania.com/jim-ross-weighs-in-on-the-bill-demott-controversy

This is one of the few times I will ever probably vehemently disagree with JR over something. I saw another post with him likening this to disciplining your children and how back in the day it was commonplace to have the child pick their own switch to get hit with and such, and while I agree with him in that it's ridiculous how it is essentially outlawed in this day and age to spank your kids as a manner of discipline, most of the things he tries to draw allusions to don't equate.

These aren't kids who don't know right from wrong and the only way to get them to learn it is to punish them in a way to make them realize something is wrong. These are grown adults who don't need to be physically abused in a way that is not related at all to the business they're in to get them to learn something or make them feel like crap about it. These are people who are being put into situations that could have caused long term physical problems for them if they were injured due to being forced to do something they weren't ready or cleared for. That is not "teaching toughness", that is being careless and an *******.

And just because something is "commonplace" in one area doesn't make it right to continue elsewhere, especially when you've got stuff like this "Be a Star" crap hanging over the company. It's one thing for it to happen in a gym on someone's personal time, but it should have no business in a professional company atmosphere where you're trying to teach these people how to be professionals and conduct themselves in a manner that you're supposed to want so that they can go out and make the company look good. You teach with a manner of bullying and ******* behavior, don't be surprised or punish them when they start to emulate that later on. It's what you showed them was ok for them to do as an employee of the company, don't pull this "do as I say and not as I do" ******** because it doesn't fly in today's world when the little guy actually stands up for himself now instead of just letting himself get walked all over. It has nothing to do with entitlement or not taking rejection, even though there are plenty of people out there where that really is a problem, but rather a point of people realizing that not all old school methods are really that good to begin with and just because that kind of bullying method of teaching worked back in the day, doesn't mean it didn't come with its own negatives and that people don't have to stand for it anymore.

 

[Bat Brain]

I rewatched the Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls match today. This spot never fails to blow my mind:

 

[Lantern Venom]

This is one of the few times I will ever probably vehemently disagree with JR over something.

It has nothing to do with entitlement or not taking rejection, even though there are plenty of people out there where that really is a problem, but rather a point of people realizing that not all old school methods are really that good to begin with and just because that kind of bullying method of teaching worked back in the day, doesn't mean it didn't come with its own negatives and that people don't have to stand for it anymore.

I don't know all the details about the Demott story, but a few aspects would seem obvious:

*No one gets away with racist, sexist, or homophobic language in the public eye. It simply doesn't stay hidden.

*Physical abuse is no longer accepted, no matter how many great coaches, trainers, etc got away with it in decades past.

*JR is putting himself in a questionable position by defending Demott, especially in written form. This might come back to haunt him.

 

[Slushy]

Paige dropping more beeps on Total Divas than a rap song on the radio.

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

Here's a comment that I agree with 100% from 411mania.com regarding JR's blog post about Demott:

There's a difference between hard drills in the ring and slapping a concussed student in the head when he's sitting in a medical room.

There's a difference between verbally motivating people to push through pain and abusing them based on their perceived sexuality, race or gender.

There's a difference between asserting your authority and telling people that you can ruin their chances at their chosen career if they dare to defy you.

There's a difference between teaching wrestling students that there's certain injuries you might just have to tough it out with in order to have a career and belittling people for getting injured and threatening their future prospects if it happens again.

The defences of DeMott simply don't hold any water, because the **** he did so very clearly crossed that line between 'Tough but fair' and 'Abuse of power'.

 

[Lobo]

After Wyatt's inevitable loss, who would you guys pair with him Monday to begin a new feud? Is tillwant The Ascension to be recruited by him as his new disciples for Wyatt family 2.0.

 

[Pink Ranger]

This is one of the few times I will ever probably vehemently disagree with JR over something. I saw another post with him likening this to disciplining your children and how back in the day it was commonplace to have the child pick their own switch to get hit with and such, and while I agree with him in that it's ridiculous how it is essentially outlawed in this day and age to spank your kids as a manner of discipline, most of the things he tries to draw allusions to don't equate.

I don't know all the details about the Demott story, but a few aspects would seem obvious:

*No one gets away with racist, sexist, or homophobic language in the public eye. It simply doesn't stay hidden.

*Physical abuse is no longer accepted, no matter how many great coaches, trainers, etc got away with it in decades past.

*JR is putting himself in a questionable position by defending Demott, especially in written form. This might come back to haunt him.

I have to admit, JR's comments I am finding very upsetting, because he's someone who I once had a lot of respect for in the industry.

The fact that JR of all people seems to want to defend DeMott's actions I think paints a clear picture of how this was able to go on for such a long time. If JR kind of supports this kind of behaviour, then that very much reflects the overall culture of the organization, and likely many, many people with authority and power knew all about this and felt it wasn't anything worth looking into, as it's "part of the business."

 

[Warhammer]

I lost a ton of respect for JR for that s***.

 

[Lobo]

I have to admit, JR's comments I am finding very upsetting, because he's someone who I once had a lot of respect for in the industry.

The fact that JR of all people seems to want to defend DeMott's actions I think paints a clear picture of how this was able to go on for such a long time. If JR kind of supports this kind of behaviour, then that very much reflects the overall culture of the organization, and likely many, many people with authority and power knew all about this and felt it wasn't anything worth looking into, as it's "part of the business."

Pretty much. You have guys like Hayes in positions of power as well. We'll see how the future goes with younger newer school personalities taking over. Starting with A Train.

 

[Pink Ranger]

The worst part is, WWE is a publicly traded US corporation now. You cannot do that old-school bull**** when you're a company with filings, shareholders, overseers, etc. They've had more than a decade now to take care of things like this.

 

[Warhammer]

All they need to get their act together is a public controversy. I am not one to wish ill will on people, but I wish this DeMott story caught fire with the major news outlets so bad. It is a necessary evil.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

When the New Japan Dojo, which is said to be one, if not the most grueling and physically/mentally exhausting pro wrestling schools/camps ever, becomes tamer in recent years, you know DeMott and WWE are ****ing up gloriously.