The Wrestling Thread Says, "Wait Just A Second There, Playa!"

[Kaleb]

yes...yes he does

 

[Metallo]

This is Wrestlemania, the biggest show of the year. A draw is a draw. Making the most money hence why Hogan main evented 9 of them. I'll take a crowd approved legendary Superstar over most of those many people on the roster who couldn't draw flies even if they had ***** smeared on them, but of course you hate The Rock too much to see the business side of things.

I don't hate Rock...but I can be objective enough to not ride his d*** while saying he's the greatest ever when it ain't true. The same way I can be critical of Hogan Austin, Flair or anyone else and have been.

Maybe those other younger guys COULD draw if Vince took the time to build them up the same way he built the Rock instead of taking him back like a desperate abandoned girlfriend.

I'm the one who sees the guys who REALLY drew the money instead of swooning over someone just because they've done some mediocre films the sheeple ate up (and have nothing to do with drawing money in wrestling). I see the business side just fine. I also have some long term perspective instead of quick fix garbage. The kind of sh** that killed WCW.

I'll admit I always thought Flair was overrated as an in-ring performer as well as an arrogant prick, but I do think he was the epitome of being a heel.

His peers, the ones who know more about the business than you or I, would disagree. Granted he can't raise his eyebrow or talk about his strudel like its some kind of genius highbrow innovative thing but thems the breaks.

If that's the case, Flair's ass shouldn't waited to be inducted with his boys then instead of hogging up more TV time because of *****ting on his sendoff by going to TNA.

At least Flair didn't turn his back on the business because he got ******** nor does he avoid the boys. For him I doubt they mind it a lot less than Dwayne's shenanigans.

But its okay, let's re-induct Hogan and Austin while we're at it because they're OMG Greatest Superstar EVER too!

When you got a longer more diverse in ring career you tend to build up a resume. A resume thats not crappy Disney movies but still a resume.

No, people hate John Cena because he got boring as fu**. Funny enough, the same exact thing happened to HBK during his run on top. Instead of staying as the arrogant bastard that got him over, he got soft and towed the company which is why he got his ass booed out of the building at MSG against Sid!

Thats a booking issue...not necessarily because either one were babyfaces.

 

[Metallo]

I'm not sayng he needs necessarily needs to turn heel, I'm saying he needs a gimmick change!

Gimmick change to what exactly? Its never really been his gimmicks that were the problem. And even if he changed his gimmick if he was booked the same way the fans would still boo him. Hell even if he was booked differently some people would still boo him. A lot of the hate on Cena has never been particularly deep or hard to figure out. Some of them boo Cena to be anti establishment and get off on it. Even if Cena changes his gimmick he's still going to be the establishment. Some people just like to b*tch. If its not one thing its something else.

again the heel/face thing isnt important, he had different characteristics, which is what I am saying he needs now

And his character now evolved from that. He still brings those elements back from time to time.

I did read it, not that I needed to, and if you read what I last wrote then you should know that I think FUNDAMENTALLY they are different to their real life personas, and that parts of their personality are simply incorporated to try and give them some real life standing but once again they are fundamentally different people simply with some shared characteristics (I'm repeating myself but you clearly didn't read or maybe understand what I wrote - and as I said before I think we will have to agree to disagree on this topic)

Fundamental is fundamental. There's not much disagreeing on what a word means in a dictionary. Look it up. Fundamentally different means they are different from the ground up. Maybe you mean superficially different on the outside. Whatever. Fundamentally speaking the top guys gimmicks have some part of their real personality at the base somewhere

he is?!? WHEN!? I wouldn't have a problem with him if he was, the only time I have seen it is very recently against the rock, otherwise all I see is "you don't like me? geee willikers thats a shame I think youre a good wrestler... I love wrestling, I am going to beat yo" goofy smile

He's done the same thing with other guys before. He did a lot of the same stuff against Batista we just didn't have a year of it.

 

[Metallo]

I'm diggin it. Maybe this thing is easier to put together/suspend?

 

[spidey-dude]

Gimmick change to what exactly? Its never really been his gimmicks that were the problem. And even if he changed his gimmick if he was booked the same way the fans would still boo him. Hell even if he was booked differently some people would still boo him. A lot of the hate on Cena has never been particularly deep or hard to figure out. Some of them boo Cena to be anti establishment and get off on it. Even if Cena changes his gimmick he's still going to be the establishment. Some people just like to b*tch. If its not one thing its something else.

I can only talk for why I don't personally like his character rather than guess what the majority would prefer - but for me his character is stale and boring, i have no problem with how he is booked.... mainly I'd like to get rid of the "please like me" goofy smile guy

And his character now evolved from that. He still brings those elements back from time to time.

Like I said he needs NEW characteristics (character in general imo) not an occasional visit to old ones, not sure what your point is....

Fundamental is fundamental. There's not much disagreeing on what a word means in a dictionary. Look it up. Fundamentally different means they are different from the ground up. Maybe you mean superficially different on the outside. Whatever. Fundamentally speaking the top guys gimmicks have some part of their real personality at the base somewhere

my point was that other than slight characteristics and traits they are fundamentally different - there is no way you can convince me (or most unbiased rational people) that fundamentally the undertaker is the same as Mark Calloway... I'm not disagreeing the meaning of the word, I am disagreeing with how you are interpreting a character that someone plays as being fundamentally the same as the wrestler, in some cases they just arent.... which is why I feel like we need to disagree (which I thought was pretty obvious in my last post tbh)

He's done the same thing with other guys before. He did a lot of the same stuff against Batista we just didn't have a year of it.

I didn't really watch WWE then so will have to take your word for it, but since I have watched I have barely seen it at all

 

[Metallo]

I can only talk for why I don't personally like his character rather than guess what the majority would prefer - but for me his character is stale and boring, i have no problem with how he is booked.... mainly I'd like to get rid of the "please like me" goofy smile guy

He has changed that from time to time...but the whole point of his character is that he's a good guy. He's NEVER begged anyone to like him. Is the guy not supposed to be happy?

Like I said he needs NEW characteristics (character in general imo) not an occasional visit to old ones, not sure what your point is....

How is it smart business to change the character that has put him on top in the first place. This is exactly what Hunter was talking about. Why should he sell out who he is?

my point was that other than slight characteristics and traits they are fundamentally different - there is no way you can convince me (or most unbiased rational people) that fundamentally the undertaker is the same as Mark Calloway... I'm not disagreeing the meaning of the word, I am disagreeing with how you are interpreting a character that someone plays as being fundamentally the same as the wrestler, in some cases they just arent.... which is why I feel like we need to disagree (which I thought was pretty obvious in my last post tbh)

You don't understand the definition of the word fundamental. You aren't being rational or unbiased if you aren't willing to admit that. Taker is superficially VERY different from mark Calloway but fundamentally a lot of what is in the Undertaker character is in mark Calloway. I'm not talking about theatrics but the core of the character. You seem to be missing or ignoring that.

FUNDAMENTALLY Mark Calloway is a man who will not half a** it no matter how hurt he is because if the level of respect others have for him and he has for this business. He'll go out there and give you every thing he's got. Doesn't matter if he's wrestling with a torn bicep, a fractured orbital bone, broken ribs, fractured leg, a bad hip, a permanently damaged shoulder, first degree burns, whatever. He's a leader. He's a physical phenom. He and his character are the backbone and the spirit of the WWE. FUNDAMENTALLY thats what The Undertaker is.

I didn't really watch WWE then so will have to take your word for it, but since I have watched I have barely seen it at all

How can you be SO sure on so many things when you haven't watched? Thats the thing that gets me. You say something needs to be changed well why don't you look at the bigger perspective and the broader expanse of time before you're so sure about this stuff. Its just like Undertaker...how can you be SO sure what is and isn't at the mans core when you haven't even watched that much. I've been watching the guy LITERALLY for three fourths of my life and learned a lot about him from interviews where he talks about who he is as a man as well as others talking abotu who he is. The same is true for Cena. He is who he is and thats what brought him to the dance even though some people want to play armchair booker/creative its not nearly as easy as they think it is.

 

[spidey-dude]

He has changed that from time to time...but the whole point of his character is that he's a good guy. He's NEVER begged anyone to like him. Is the guy not supposed to be happy?

Thats how his character comes accross to me, that he wants everyone to like him - the guy can be happy backstage, doesnt mean I want to see someone jumping around the ring with a goofy smile on his face

How is it smart business to change the character that has put him on top in the first place. This is exactly what Hunter was talking about. Why should he sell out who he is?

it isn't though, you said yourself it was his rapping gimmick that got him over

You don't understand the definition of the word fundamental. You aren't being rational or unbiased if you aren't willing to admit that. Taker is superficially VERY different from mark Calloway but fundamentally a lot of what is in the Undertaker character is in mark Calloway. I'm not talking about theatrics but the core of the character. You seem to be missing or ignoring that.

no I think you don't understand the meaning or perhaps you misunderstand what a character is, the fundamentals of Mark Calloway and The Undertaker are very very different imo, there are traits and characteristics both have but that is unavoidable as part of the actor will always be conveyed - fundamentally they are different

FUNDAMENTALLY Mark Calloway is a man who will not half a** it no matter how hurt he is because if the level of respect others have for him and he has for this business. He'll go out there and give you every thing he's got. Doesn't matter if he's wrestling with a torn bicep, a fractured orbital bone, broken ribs, fractured leg, a bad hip, a permanently damaged shoulder, first degree burns, whatever. He's a leader. He's a physical phenom. He and his character are the backbone and the spirit of the WWE. FUNDAMENTALLY thats what The Undertaker is.

and thats where the disagreement arises mate, I don't think that is the core of who he is or who the character of the undertaker is, they are 2 aspects that the character and actual person share

How can you be SO sure on so many things when you haven't watched? Thats the thing that gets me. You say something needs to be changed well why don't you look at the bigger perspective and the broader expanse of time before you're so sure about this stuff. Its just like Undertaker...how can you be SO sure what is and isn't at the mans core when you haven't even watched that much. I've been watching the guy LITERALLY for three fourths of my life and learned a lot about him from interviews where he talks about who he is as a man as well as others talking abotu who he is. The same is true for Cena. He is who he is and thats what brought him to the dance even though some people want to play armchair booker/creative its not nearly as easy as they think it is.

I'm talking from the casual fan point of view mate, I'm not looking at a bigger expanse of time simply what is enjoyable for casual fans, not everyone reads about the biz online all day everyday, I have never claimed to speak for everybody nor have I ever claimed to be "SO sure" on anything to do with John Cena, but it seems obvious that a large ammount of people who watch do not like John Cena, and I am offering an opinion on why, and I think it is because alot of people, like me, just find his character incredibly boring, predictable and just annoying. As for The Undertaker I have seen alot of him throughout my life, I just havent seen him in the ring between 03 and 09/10, I have seen plenty of interviews with Mark during that time however, which is why I am confident to say I dont think he is fundamentally the same as the Undertaker, I have even agreed to disagree with you as it is clear we will not agree, you are the one who thinks that their interpretation is the law and will not it lie for some bizarre reason.

 

[Metallo]

Thats how his character comes across to me, that he wants everyone to like him - the guy can be happy backstage, doesn't mean I want to see someone jumping around the ring with a goofy smile on his face

The Rock comes out the ring with a Goofy smile on his face pimping his twitter. So what?

Cenas SAID he doesn't want everyone like him. He does what he does for him not anyone else. If people like it fine if people don't fine. Nobody is forcing you to watch. Certainly not him.

it isn't though, you said yourself it was his rapping gimmick that got him over

His attitude more than his gimmick. It was his attitude that got him over. And as far as people liking him or not he still has that part of his attitude. And a lot of people still like him. If they didn't he wouldn't be drawing any money.

no I think you don't understand the meaning or perhaps you misunderstand what a character is, the fundamentals of Mark Calloway and The Undertaker are very very different imo, there are traits and characteristics both have but that is unavoidable as part of the actor will always be conveyed - fundamentally they are different

You can say that all you want but it doesn't change what "fundamentally" means. Why don't YOU give us the definition since you're such a scholar. Lets ask the people on this thread what their consensus is?

and thats where the disagreement arises mate, I don't think that is the core of who he is or who the character of the undertaker is, they are 2 aspects that the character and actual person share

Then you don't understand him or his gimmick at all

I'm talking from the casual fan point of view mate, I'm not looking at a bigger expanse of time simply what is enjoyable for casual fans, not everyone reads about the biz online all day everyday, I have never claimed to speak for everybody nor have I ever claimed to be "SO sure" on anything to do with John Cena, but it seems obvious that a large ammount of people who watch do not like John Cena, and I am offering an opinion on why, and I think it is because alot of people, like me, just find his character incredibly boring, predictable and just annoying. As for The Undertaker I have seen alot of him throughout my life, I just havent seen him in the ring between 03 and 09/10, I have seen plenty of interviews with Mark during that time however, which is why I am confident to say I dont think he is fundamentally the same as the Undertaker, I have even agreed to disagree with you as it is clear we will not agree, you are the one who thinks that their interpretation is the law and will not it lie for some bizarre reason.

Casual fans don't dissect things this much so I don't think you are. They don't take wrestling seriously enough to do that.

Its got nothing to do with my interpretation. It has to do with what The Undertaker himself and others have said about him. I have nothing to do with the fact that you either twist it or refuse to accept everything as it is.

You've confused surface with something deeper. Fundamentally speaking The Undertaker shares a lot of the same traits as the man who portrays him: loyalty, respect, strength of will. If you don't think Calloway doesn't have those things you weren't paying much attention to those interviews you say you watched.

As for Cena a lot of people don't like him just to do it. There's nothing much deeper about it than that. They like to go against the grain or amuse themselves or be trendy.

 

[spidey-dude]

The Rock comes out the ring with a Goofy smile on his face pimping his twitter. So what?

And as I have said in the thread I don't like it when he acts like that, I much prefer it when he is old school Rock - but we aren't talking about the Rock

Cenas SAID he doesn't want everyone like him. He does what he does for him not anyone else. If people like it fine if people don't fine. Nobody is forcing you to watch. Certainly not him.

his words and actions differ. Course people arent forcing me to watch, I enjoy what I watch, I don't enjoy Cena...

You can say that all you want but it doesn't change what "fundamentally" means. Why don't YOU give us the definition since you're such a scholar. Lets ask the people on this thread what their consensus is?

I agree on what fundamentally means... that isn't what I'm disputing....

Then you don't understand him or his gimmick at all

okay roll out a tired "you don't understand" point of view.... his character is pretty 2D really not hard to understand at all

Casual fans don't dissect things this much so I don't think you are. They don't take wrestling seriously enough to do that.

I like talking about tv shows I'm casually into aswell... I wouldnt class myself as a serious fan as I can't remember the last time I actually watched a show properly, I read Raw results and watch highlights of what sounds good, not sure you can get much more casual

Its got nothing to do with my interpretation. It has to do with what The Undertaker himself and others have said about him. I have nothing to do with the fact that you either twist it or refuse to accept everything as it is.

You've confused surface with something deeper. Fundamentally speaking The Undertaker shares a lot of the same traits as the man who portrays him: loyalty, respect, strength of will. If you don't think Calloway doesn't have those things you weren't paying much attention to those interviews you say you watched.

I don't think the character of Undertaker is loyal, he has turned on partners before, so there already he is missing a fundamental aspect of the man who portrays him

 

[Metallo]

And as I have said in the thread I don't like it when he acts like that, I much prefer it when he is old school Rock - but we aren't talking about the Rock

Its what babyfaces do. They've been doing it forever. If you want everybody to be an a**hole tweener all the time I'm sorry but its just not gonna happen. Its not the Attitude Era

his words and actions differ. Course people arent forcing me to watch, I enjoy what I watch, I don't enjoy Cena...

If his actions differed he'd be BEGGING you to like him. he's not. What he said Monday was pretty clear that he doesn't give a damn if people like him or not but he'll always give his best. IF he cared about everyone liking him he would pander and try to do exactly what you want him to. he's not. he's doing what he wants to do.

I agree on what fundamentally means... that isn't what I'm disputing....

Obviously you don't understand what it means if you don't get the definition

Define it for me if you are so sure.

okay roll out a tired "you don't understand" point of view.... his character is pretty 2D really not hard to understand at all

You seem to be having trouble. You aren't even clear on what he is at the core. What IS the Undertaker when you strip away all the theatrics. Tell me

I like talking about tv shows I'm casually into aswell... I wouldnt class myself as a serious fan as I can't remember the last time I actually watched a show properly, I read Raw results and watch highlights of what sounds good, not sure you can get much more casual

Most casual fans have better things to do than read results or go on a message board and talk at THIS length about things. Its all silly lowbrow throwaway entertainment to them.

I don't think the character of Undertaker is loyal, he has turned on partners before, so there already he is missing a fundamental aspect of the man who portrays him

I'm talking about a greater loyalty. Can you tell me how many times the Undertaker walked out on WWE?

Can you tell me when the Undertaker quit WWE and went to WCW?

Can you tell if he's never wrestled because he was hurt?

Can you tell me that even in a kayfabe sense he isn't respected? Can you tell me in the REAL WORLD sense that he isn't respected?

Durign the Bret Hart return storyline when Vince refused to let Bret Hart return to WWE what did The Undertaker say to Vince? Did he tell him he was right or did he say it wasn't the honorable thing to do?

Can you tell me why last year Triple H laid out how respected the Undertaker is and how hard he's worked for the WWE if he wasn't loyal in some way?

I never said Taker wouldn't turn on somebody. I said he was loyal...but I didn't say to any one person specifically. even then he's usually had a code of respect.

If he doesn't have a code why did he show HIS respect to Jeff Hardy after he beat Hardy senseless and Hardy kept coming?

 

[spidey-dude]

Its what babyfaces do. They've been doing it forever. If you want everybody to be an a**hole tweener all the time I'm sorry but its just not gonna happen. Its not the Attitude Era

nope I want people to have some character.... I like Zack Ryder and he is a straight up happy guy....

If his actions differed he'd be BEGGING you to like him. he's not. What he said Monday was pretty clear that he doesn't give a damn if people like him or not but he'll always give his best. IF he cared about everyone liking him he would pander and try to do exactly what you want him to. he's not. he's doing what he wants to do.

"what he SAID on monday night..." that would be saying and not actions

Obviously you don't understand what it means if you don't get the definition

I get the definition just fine

You seem to be having trouble. You aren't even clear on what he is at the core. What IS the Undertaker when you strip away all the theatrics. Tell me

why are you stripping away all the theatrics? they ARE a core part of the character... again I don't think you are distinguishing between the character and who portray him which is funny as thats what you jumped into my conversation with hunter over in the first place...

Most casual fans have better things to do than read results or go on a message board and talk at THIS length about things. Its all silly lowbrow throwaway entertainment to them.

I'm off work ill, I don't have much else to do today, and normally I only stop off quickly on here to ask a question or give my view on parts of a show.... if a person who doesn't even watch the whole show isn't casual then who is?

I'm talking about a greater loyalty. Can you tell me how many times the Undertaker walked out on WWE?

Can you tell me when the Undertaker quit WWE and went to WCW?

Can you tell if he's never wrestled because he was hurt?

you are failing to distinguish between the character and the man who plays him.... which is what I have been trying to say to you

Can you tell me that even in a kayfabe sense he isn't respected? Can you tell me in the REAL WORLD sense that he isn't respected?

no because we are talking about a character not a real person... I'm starting to wonder if you know what a character is...

Durign the Bret Hart return storyline when Vince refused to let Bret Hart return to WWE what did The Undertaker say to Vince? Did he tell him he was right or did he say it wasn't the honorable thing to do?

Can you tell me why last year Triple H laid out how respected the Undertaker is and how hard he's worked for the WWE if he wasn't loyal in some way?

I never said Taker wouldn't turn on somebody. I said he was loyal...but I didn't say to any one person specifically. even then he's usually had a code of respect.

If he doesn't have a code why did he show HIS respect to Jeff Hardy after he beat Hardy senseless and Hardy kept coming?[/QUOTE]

again you seem to be unable to make a distinction between Mark Calloway and The Undertaker, you seem to think they are one and the same....

 

[Dr. Evil]

I wonder how much screentime Hulk Hogan will hog on TNA this week?

 

[Metallo]

nope I want people to have some character.... I like Zack Ryder and he is a straight up happy guy....

Cena has character. Just because you refuse to see it aint Cenas problem.

"what he SAID on monday night..." that would be saying and not actions

He's been SHOWING it for years with his actions. Is he pandering to you and people like you that complain?

The fact that he's NOT doing what people like you want him to do voids your entire argument.

I get the definition just fine

Well define since I clearly don't understand it.

why are you stripping away all the theatrics? they ARE a core part of the character... again I don't think you are distinguishing between the character and who portray him which is funny as thats what you jumped into my conversation with hunter over in the first place...

The theatrics are whats on the surface. Not the core. You still haven't answered the question.

You replied to me too bud. You didn't have to.

I'm off work ill, I don't have much else to do today, and normally I only stop off quickly on here to ask a question or give my view on parts of a show.... if a person who doesn't even watch the whole show isn't casual then who is?

When casual fans/people are off work or at home they still got better things to do than go on on a message board.

you are failing to distinguish between the character and the man who plays him.... which is what I have been trying to say to you

Or...you just didn't know any of what I said. what I said applies to the character and the real person.

You miss the point entirely. Elements of the real world and kayfabe blend. Theres some of the man in the character.

no because we are talking about a character not a real person... I'm starting to wonder if you know what a character is...

I'm starting to wonder if you know how wrestling works at all or understand anything anyone says about it. The character AND real person had his wife Sara on the show for example. When Triple H was talking about The Undertaker on Raw he was talking about the character AND the real person.

Like I said how can you speak so surely on stuff you clearly admitted you never saw in some instances?

again you seem to be unable to make a distinction between Mark Calloway and The Undertaker, you seem to think they are one and the same....

And you can't seem to see the crossover. I see the distinction just fine.

When Jeff Hardy earned his characters respect that was live ON Smackdown. The man feels the same way about earning respect.

 

[Hunter Rider]

So far I haven't read what the potential deal was TNA & WWE struck. Where did you read the news? WWE really has nothing to lose by mmentioning TNA.

It was just in one of the news articles that get posted in here, not sure which one, sorry.

Any full results for Smackdown yet?

They shot SD after Raw, just two matches, Jericho vs Kofi and Ryder vs McIntyre, I imagine the rest of the show will be promo vids. DX appeared but my guess is that was just for the live crowd.

It reminds me of the classic blue bars from the old cage matches.

Is that Shawn vs Marty match on any DVD's?

No, people hate John Cena because he got boring as fu**. Funny enough, the same exact thing happened to HBK during his run on top. Instead of staying as the arrogant bastard that got him over, he got soft and towed the company which is why he got his ass booed out of the building at MSG against Sid!

People want all anti heroes now and Cena isn't that so he gets booed by SOME people, whats great is though he doesn't care and that only pisses them off more meaning all his matches have great crowd heat with dueling chants and plenty of atmosphere, hence no point in changing him to appease those stuck in 1999.

 

[Nightmare]

This would be an awesome avatar lol

And the hell in the cell does look different, I almost like it. Have to wait to see it closer to make a valid opinion. Hope that match delivers and has BLOOD!!

 

[Pink Ranger]

People want all anti heroes now and Cena isn't that so he gets booed by SOME people, whats great is though he doesn't care and that only pisses them off more meaning all his matches have great crowd heat with dueling chants and plenty of atmosphere, hence no point in changing him to appease those stuck in 1999.

**quickly kick my patent leather platform beatle boots under the table**

Really? Tell me more ...

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[Hunter Rider]

**quickly kick my patent leather platform beatle boots under the table**

Really? Tell me more ...

*Goes into Grease mode*

Tell me more, tell me more, tell me more, like is he really over! t:

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Spidey-dude, all im gonna day is that you're arguing with the guy who thinks the Stone Cold Stunner would be a legitimate maneuver to pull off in a real fight. It doesn't shock me that he would confuse the real life people with the characters they portray on tv.

Fact is, 2 things can be equally true. John Cena's character has become incredibly stale, thus turning some of the audience against him. It has also become the "it" thing to do to boo Cena. While people legitimately dislike Cena for legitimate reasons, stuff like this whole "lets go Cena / Cena sucks!" chant is all part of the show, and people going with the rest of the crowd.

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[Metallo]

People want all anti heroes now and Cena isn't that so he gets booed by SOME people, whats great is though he doesn't care and that only pisses them off more meaning all his matches have great crowd heat with dueling chants and plenty of atmosphere, hence no point in changing him to appease those stuck in 1999.

The people, the kids, who want a hero shouldn't be crapped on. Let Cena appeal to that segment of the audience. Let Punk appeal to the older fans. Everyone gets something they like.

It isn't all that different from Hogan and Savage. Hogan wasn't as polarizing as Cena but it was primarily kids that he appealed to while Savage appealed more to older more traditional fans who liked a certain kind of athleticism.

Its the kids watching now who can be more long term fans rather than a bunch of 30 and 40 somethings who are getting increasingly more responsibility in life to give as much time to wrestling. I know plenty of people like that. They'll have kids of their own and someone like Cena will probably appeal to them.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Spidey-dude, all im gonna day is that you're arguing with the guy who thinks the Stone Cold Stunner would be a legitimate maneuver to pull off in a real fight. It doesn't shock me that he would confuse the real life people with the characters they portray on tv.

This is just you trying to bait Metallo now, if you want to add some actual thoughts to the debate then do so as opposed to simply taking digs at a person.

I finished my piece in it last night, I quoted the fact that on record many top stars including Rock, HBK and Austin have all said they got over because their on screen character was just them with the volume turned up to 11, if some don't believe them then so be it.

 

[Metallo]

Spidey-dude, all im gonna day is that you're arguing with the guy who thinks the Stone Cold Stunner would be a legitimate maneuver to pull off in a real fight. It doesn't shock me that he would confuse the real life people with the characters they portray on tv.

Fact is, 2 things can be equally true. John Cena's character has become incredibly stale, thus turning some of the audience against him. It has also become the "it" thing to do to boo Cena. While people legitimately dislike Cena for legitimate reasons, stuff like this whole "lets go Cena / Cena sucks!" chant is all part of the show, and people going with the rest of the crowd.

Who pulled your string? Clearly looking for a reason to jump in because you always feel so ********, Nell. Like a whipped dog that sees its chance. Its funny that NOW you have the balls to get behind someone else to throw stones even though you usually say you'll ignore me.

You talk about people coming out of the woodwork and blindsiding you but you do the same thing? Hypocrite.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The people, the kids, who want a hero shouldn't be crapped on. Let Cena appeal to that segment of the audience. Let Punk appeal to the older fans. Everyone gets something they like.

It isn't all that different from Hogan and Savage. Hogan wasn't as polarizing as Cena but it was primarily kids that he appealed to while Savage appealed more to older more traditional fans who liked a certain kind of athleticism.

Its the kids watching now who can be more long term fans rather than a bunch of 30 and 40 somethings who are getting increasingly more responsibility in life to give as much time to wrestling. I know plenty of people like that. They'll have kids of their own and someone like Cena will probably appeal to them.

Exactly, Punk likens himself and Cena to Batman and Superman and the Hogan/Savage analogy hits even closer to home in many ways, I don't see the big deal in having one true honest to goodness hero in the show, plus we have the unstable loner tweener in Orton to round things out and we are still seeing what type of face Sheamus will be.

My only issue with Cena is the way some of his matches are booked, it's the same thing that irritates me with Taker's matches, plus Cena's non selling of a beating during the comeback, whether by orders of Vince or because he gets caught up in the rush, harms some matches.

 

[Metallo]

Yeah I don't really have a problem with Cena being the boyscout either its just that he's Superman and is too much of a doormat sometimes. But he can be happy and a role model all he wants.

Being away from the title scene has been good for him.