This is a touchy subject...

[Octoberist]

No website yet, but I will let you know.
I don't force the diversity. But if the character sounds Hispanic in my head, that's what I make them. If they sound black, white, what have you...I go where my inspiration takes me.

Same here when I write stories or scripts for school.

 

[aaron]

This is inspiring me to write a black superhero fan script lol

 

[Octoberist]

still hang at the X3 section?

 

[aaron]

Nope, just around here a little, and the Spidey 3 section, occasionally the Marvel comics board too. You?

 

[Octoberist]

mostly Batman, Misc movies. I'll join Spider-Man 3 sooner or later.

 

[aaron]

Seen the Venom lowres pic?

and what about Ledger as Joker hehe

 

[Octoberist]

ive seen the venom footage. I'm excited about Ledger

Funny Story: I tried to go with my girlfriend to Comic Con on Saturday. Past the heavy traffic, there was a four hour wait outside. By the time we got to the end, the lady who worked at the convention center told us that it's too late and it's packed. She told everyone in line that. So we went down there for no reason. At the sametime, it's san diego, and it was awesome anyway.

 

[DarKush]

We don't respect ourselves, though. That's why Hollywood doesn't respect us. Come on. Our culture has the most misogynistic form of music in existence. Not only does a large percentage of rap have lyrics that degrade women, nevermind the quasi-nudity that seems almost mandatory in rap videos. We don't even take women seriously as rappers unless they portray themselves as butch or ****ty. So some movie producer or studio exec sees this & only this, what's he gonna give us?

I sort of agree with this sentiment, then again not quite. Hollywood, since at least Birth of a Nation has been pushing or selling a negative view of black people. And before that there was the minstrel shows/Jim Crow. (Ex. black face movies-Al Jolson, Stepin Fetchit, Amos n' Andy, black exploitation films of the 70s and on and on).

That all was decades before this current aberrant 'thug' or 'gangsta rap' subculture. In part mainstream hip hop artists have taken quite a bit from the black exploitation films-the pimp, hustler image, etc.-to influence and inspire their work.

So I think that Hollywood on one hand is now reacting to a phenomenon that they had a hand in creating. There's a guy-Donald Bogle that has written extensively on the black image in film and TV.

Black people don't live in a vacuum and unfortunately too many have bought into this images and believe they are authentic, and there hasn't been enough competing ones-even though they are out there-that get the focus or the attention as the negative ones do.

Furthermore, there are a lot of whites who are supporting mainstream hip hop and these images as well. Rap is the new music of youthful aggression. And Hollywood and music companies are going to play that up to get all the dollars that they can. Especially since a lot of teens, black, white, Asian, Latino, etc. have more spending power than in decades past.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Hence the vicious circle.

 

[DarKush]

I think mainstream hip hop is terrible. However, underground hip hop is really good.

It's weird however, that my friend went to an underground show (I couldn't go due to work), and everyone there was everyting but black. When he told me that, I was like "WHY?".


What sucks is that it makes mainstream black people look 'close minded'. Not trying to offend, but when he first went to the show, that was his immediate reaction on why there were lack of black people. Is is because some black people view underground as a 'white thing'? I hope that's not the case.

I really think that SOME blacks need to cool down the race card. Sometimes, they'll bring it up for no reason.

I've known a guy who was like "There were no black people in Lord of the Rings". I just sighed and reply "Because they were no black people in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." He was a co-worker and I didnt know too well, but he was half serious half joking.

I know quite of black people who just don't care about races, which is the way everyone should think. But I knew some who do.

Don't think "Why isn't there a black person in that movie." Hell, I'm Asian and we get the worse end of the Hollywood stick, but I'm not complaining. I don't go watch a movie because of the minorities or whatever: I go because it looks interesting.

"Playing the race card"? I really think that statement is a trip sometimes. Of course some people look for racial motivation or hostile intent where none exists or to cover up their own misdeeds or whatever.

(However, it is always considered that these 'some' people are black. This charge is rarely applied to the centuries of racial discrimination visited upon by blacks in this country. Also, whites are never accused of playing the race card when they make charges of reverse racism.)

Because of the awful history of race in this country, and how it pervaded so much of our interaction, I can't just dismiss anyone's claim that they were the victim of racial discrimination. Because racial discrimination has occurred before and still does. I think it merits looking into to see if the claim is valid. But charging that the race card is being played again often comes across as a glib excuse to not even consider the merits or validity of the claim.

I think if people are complaining about blacks being in LOTR then I think that's crazy. But what I would hope for is that one day are that fantasy epics derived from African mythology are one day given an opportunity to be made, and that the idea wouldn't be inconceivable to many blacks, whites, or others as I fear it might be now.

But whether your friend was joking or making a serious gripe, the progress blacks and other racial minorities in this country have achieved has come from some one 'complaining' or 'agitating'. It wasn't by sitting on their hands and making nice. Fallacies and negative depictions had to be pointed out, argued, protested over, etc. The old adage of "The squeaky wheel gets the oil" is still in full effect.

It would be nice if no one cared about race, but there are a lot of people that feel they have to care about race, usually the people who are negatively impacted by it the most. Granted there are also some people who use it as a crutch, but there are bad apples in every bunch.

Lastly, I think that the majority of hip hop listeners have the right to choose what they want to listen to. I personally don't care for a lot of mainstream hip hop, but as for the underground stuff it's not promoted and not blasted into your ears 24/7. I wonder if a lot of people are even aware that it exists or where to got to find it.

And the mainstream stuff is more lurid and sensational. It doesn't require much thought, or forces you to actually want to do something positive in your community, etc. It's like a vicarious thrill.

And it's defeatist mindset speaks to many who don't know how to escape their circumstances and the music now tells them they don't even have to try, that what they might be doing now is natural and authentic. Who wants to hear something earth shattering, that might force them to change, that might compel them to risk failure?

IMO, people, esp. young people tend to go for the oversexed, ultraviolent lyrics in a lot of mainstream hip hop. That's no different than checking out oversexed, ultraviolent movies.

A lot of gangsta rap fans are white, etc. But why are only blacks who like that form of music 'close minded' to you?

 

[DarKush]

Hence the vicious circle.

One more thing about your previous post Chris. Rock music, esp. heavy metal has been misogynistic as well. Of course a lot of the wilder antics of the 70s and 80s came before the sophisticated video and digital age that we live in now. But Axl Rose will still trash a room as quickly as DMX.

IMO, hardcore rap has now replaced the hard rockers as the main music of teenage rebellion, so it has inherited, or better yet seized the outlaw image and all of the 'benefits' that come along with it.

But at the risk of repeating myself, there is a definite cultural component at play here too for black people. However, I just wanted to put it out there that misogynistic strains aren't just in hip hop music. Though they are very magnified, glamorized, and celebrated by rappers.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'll concede that rap didn't start the fire; but they pour jet fuel on it.
And that's the whole point of this thread. We have entertainers now, who are in a position to-maybe not put the fire out but douse it at least-& they fuel it further.

 

[DarKush]

I'll concede that rap didn't start the fire; but they pour jet fuel on it.
And that's the whole point of this thread. We have entertainers now, who are in a position to-maybe not put the fire out but douse it at least-& they fuel it further.

I agree with you. But I don't think there is any real incentive for any of those artists to change their ways. As long as people are spending money on that crap then there will be someone supplying them with it. Plus, many of the national or recognized black leadership is strangely hesitant to challenge the rappers perhaps for fear that the attack might come off as targeting lower-income blacks or the black underclass.

I think the key factor for change has to be the general audience themselves. The black community and the black leadership, need to excommunicate or strip these hardcore rappers of their 'authenticity', their 'black card' if you will. It's this 'realness' of these hardcore rappers that is very appealing to white, black, and other audiences.

They need to have some accountability to the communities they are constantly repping in their songs.

Also, there does have to be more of a concerted effort to promote and publicize alternative rap. But that can only go so far, because if the masses don't still don't buy it, you can't force it on them.

And American society as a whole has to move away from this rampant celebrity worship. Rap hasn't been immune to that, and in part it has helped these guys get so much influence.

I think there has to be an across the board campaign in the black community to get kids and adults to learn about black history and real black cultures, not the mutated one that is pumped into their living rooms by the media.

But I would also suggest that people from other races/ethnic groups also learn about black history and cultures instead of just accepting what you see on TV and making assumptions based on that.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Wow. That was...awe-inspiring. I agree 100%.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Mos Def has so much raw potential its really freggin scary... I can't remember the name of the HBO movie he was in with Alan Rickman during the 1940's about the first heart transplant. Oh god it was so good, wasn't he nominated for an emmey or something like that. And he was really convincing in 16 blocks to. I think we will see really amazing things from him in the future.

Lets not forget about Terrence Howard. I liked him before he was a pimp. He's very good at letting his audience see and feel his character's angst.

More original and non-sterotypical writing from screen-writers who may or may not be black is what's needed. That and black actors turning down these god-awful ghetto parts. Because so many are typecasted it really doesn't leave room for much upward movement.

But Chris the reasons why you listed are the same reasons why I refuse to support Hudlin...why should he get away with my money for a gimmicky medicore forced run at Bp and Storm. Pm me about this and I'll tell you more of why.

 

[블라스]

I loved Mos Def in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

 

[aaron]

Most people think Mos is just another rapper-turned-actor, when he was actually an actor before rapper,

BTW

Black on both sides - one of my favorite rap records ever

For me, ranks up there with A Tribe Called Quest stuff

 

[QuailMan]

Morgan Freeman .. they were poking fun at him on SNL, saying how most of his movie roles include him doing narratives.

 

[Chris Wallace]

There was also a bit on Family Guy.

 

[DarKush]

Mos Def has so much raw potential its really freggin scary... I can't remember the name of the HBO movie he was in with Alan Rickman during the 1940's about the first heart transplant. Oh god it was so good, wasn't he nominated for an emmey or something like that. And he was really convincing in 16 blocks to. I think we will see really amazing things from him in the future.

Lets not forget about Terrence Howard. I liked him before he was a pimp. He's very good at letting his audience see and feel his character's angst.

More original and non-sterotypical writing from screen-writers who may or may not be black is what's needed. That and black actors turning down these god-awful ghetto parts. Because so many are typecasted it really doesn't leave room for much upward movement.

But Chris the reasons why you listed are the same reasons why I refuse to support Hudlin...why should he get away with my money for a gimmicky medicore forced run at Bp and Storm. Pm me about this and I'll tell you more of why.

I can't lay too much blame on the actors if they are dealing with a limited number of scripts to start with. I was recently reading an interview with Star Trek's Tim Russ (Tuvok, Voyager) and when asked about diversity in Hollywood, he said-I'm paraphrasing- that there had been progress but that many of the people behind the scenes, the decision makers aren't people of color. So they might not be all that cognizant of the lack of diversity in their projects.

It's taken a long time to get to Halle and Denzel, and look at what they ultimately were rewarded for: Denzel a thuggish, gangster cop and Halle for an unbalanced Billy Bob sex toy. There has been a lot of progress, but there are only a handful of black actors that can really have the freedom to choose the roles they want now.

Off hand I can think of: Halle, Denzel, Will Smith, Jamie Foxx, Samuel L. Jackson, The Rock, and Vin Diesel. I'm assuming that Terrence Howard, Morgan Freeman, Ving Rhames, Ice Cube, and Queen Latifah are in this group or close to it. I'm not sure about Wesley Snipes, Thandie Newton, Rosario Dawson, Taye Diggs, Jada Pinkett Smith, Sanaa Lathan, or Gabrielle Union.

But the cool thing is there are a lot more black stars in a wider range of roles. When more people of color get behind the screen that are now in front of it then we will really, or hopefully see more blacks, Asians, Latinos, etc. in roles that are multifaceted.

About the Black Panther, I've read a Jack Kirby TPB, but my main exposure to the character has been through Hudlin's run. So I don't really have much to draw a comparison from, but I am curious what your issues with Hudlin's run are. Why do you, or anyone, consider it mediocre?

I thought the Who is the Black Panther TPB was pretty good. Hudlin did a good job of making some C or D list villians pretty formidable. Plus the artwork was gorgeous.

Some of the stories following the TPB have been okay. The artwork is good, but my major is that Panther doesn't seem to be all that challenged. I want to see more reimagined or original villians that can really challenge him.

I liked the Storm miniseries, and I do like the idea of the Storm & BP marriage. I just want a stronger rogue's gallery. Other than that BP reads pretty good to me, except for the occasional awkward attempt to be hip.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Its tough for minority actors, cause they get minority roles. That's where its got to stop. A few that you named that have recently gone beyond that are Denzel, Samuel L, Gabrille Union, Halle, and one of my personal faves Rosiao Dawson. Jamie Foxx can be extremly versitle and so can Will Smith, and I think with smaller films with more depth they can show more of their talent.

I think that if race is taken out of roles that include a diverse cast, it may be a catylist for wider roles.

 

[aaron]

I think Jeffrey Wright's also starting to get noticed more

 

[KenK]

I think Jeffrey Wright's also starting to get noticed more

I'm sure I'll get flack for this, but he'll always be Peoples Hernandez to me!! I loved him in Basquiat, though. He's comin' up, that's for sure.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Its tough for minority actors, cause they get minority roles. That's where its got to stop. A few that you named that have recently gone beyond that are Denzel, Samuel L, Gabrille Union, Halle, and one of my personal faves Rosiao Dawson. Jamie Foxx can be extremly versitle and so can Will Smith, and I think with smaller films with more depth they can show more of their talent.

I think that if race is taken out of roles that include a diverse cast, it may be a catylist for wider roles.

Goes back to what I said earler; more roles that could just as easily have gone to a white actor.

 

[porchmonkey408]

This is regarding my growing dissatisfaction with movies that have either predominantly black casts, and/or are made by black filmmakers.
What is wrong with these people? Do they really think this mindless tripe is entertaining? If so, it says a lot about my community-none of which is good.
Yesterday a co-worker asked me if I'd seen "Little Man", & when I said I had no interest in seeing it, she went into a rant about how I had a "responsibilty" to support all black films.
That is the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. As I see it, by not supporting mediocrity, I am demanding better. I am saying that my standards are higher than what I am being offered, so I pass.
Here's what really irks me about it. 40-50 years ago, a black character in any given film was either a slave or a maid. That's because that's all that was available to them. Fast-forward about 20 years, and all you see us playing is pimps, junkies & ****es. Again, that's what was being offered. But now we have an opportunity to change all of that. We have black filmmakers. Black writers, producers & directors. And what do they choose to make? THE SAME THING! The same roles that were being offered to black actors in the 70's by white directors are now being offered by black directors. it's ridiculous. And if we're not getting another rapper starring in another "Hood" movie, we're getting lame comedies filled with ignorant stereotype humor.
How can we ever be taken seriously in Hollywood if this is what we do to ourselves?

Don't watch 'em genius. Its not like you don't know what you are getting, especially if you are considering watching Little Man or The Cookout.