This movie was over before it got started

That's what a "reboot" is. It creates it's own internal continuity without acknowledging what came before. "Reboot" does not mean a redoing of the orgin. If there are any flashbacks in this movie, they will be new scenes with STEVENSON, which means you wouldn't have needed to see the first film to understand or appreciate this one. By starting off with Castle as the Punisher and providing scenes that tell you why Castle does what he does, this could have easily taken place of the '04 turd.

Regardless of what you say, this is a weird situation. It's a quasi-reboot, that doesn't go to discount the first film, sort of assumes you now know the Punisher origin and doesn't retell it and simply moves forward with the character already existing.

EDIT: I've been re-reading through your pots Rampage and you really do seem like a troll... I've yet to see you contribute anything objective to the conversations minus your insistence on attacking the old film. I mean if that's all you're doing here, doesn't that make you a troll???
 
Here is your Daredevil tale.

pvsdhr1.png

lol yea f*** daredevil...Get outta here with that s***
 
EDIT: I've been re-reading through your pots Rampage and you really do seem like a troll... I've yet to see you contribute anything objective to the conversations minus your insistence on attacking the old film. I mean if that's all you're doing here, doesn't that make you a troll???

Actually I've expressed tremendous joy that Alexander and Stevenson are taking over and No, I'm not a "troll." And nothing anyone posts here is "objective."

While I admitt to being a Punisher fan who rarely misses an opportunity to sh it all over the '04 movie, my criticism is constructive and I'm always willing to elaborate. I have done so plenty of times and I've never created threads intentionally constructed to provoke negative responses.

I think so many on this board were (and still are) so high on the Hensleigh lovefest that you are too quick to label it's adamant dissenters as "trolls." Do you even know the definition?

Here are a few definitions of the "troll" criteria largely accepted throughout the net:

Urbandictionary:
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

IMDb:
A `troll' is an individual who enjoys creating conflict on the internet. He or she creates and fuels arguments which upset other members of the online community.

Trolls thrive in the anonymous space that is the internet. Trolls crave attention from others, and they don't care whether the attention is positive or negative. For trolls, other users are not quite real people; they are abstract characters on the other side of a computer screen. Trolls don't feel bad about hurting the feelings of other people in the digital space.
Trolls view chat rooms and newsgroups as a challenge where the winner is the user who creates the biggest argument, the user who upsets the most people in the most dramatic way. A troll wants to be the user getting the most attention. Troll behavior discourages many users and makes for a less vibrant online community. New users may not post because they fear ridicule. Established posters may leave an online community because the noise has overwhelmed the real discussion. Trolls can make an entire community paranoid, leading users to become negative or to accuse a user engaged in normal criticism as a troll.

I'm not creating some OTT persona to "hide" behind nor am I putting down the opinions of others while hailing mine as absolute. Expressing valid dissatisfaction with the '04 turd is hardly trolling I don't think I fit any of the above criteria of "trolling."

If my opinions upset some of you so much, that you'd even go as far as inaccurately labeling me a "troll," then most websites agree that the best way of dealing with supposed "trolls" is to just ignore them. Not being able to disrupt the web community robs "trolls" of all their fun and they usually just stop posting all together. Ignoring my alleged "trolling" shouldn't be too dificult since I don't actively "bait" any of you.
 
If my opinions upset some of you so much, that you'd even go as far as inaccurately labeling me a "troll," then most websites agree that the best way of dealing with supposed "trolls" is to just ignore them. Not being able to disrupt the web community robs "trolls" of all their fun and they usually just stop posting all together. Ignoring my alleged "trolling" shouldn't be too dificult since I don't actively "bait" any of you.

TROLL

J/K. We're all allowed opinions, right? I liked the '04 movie though it could've been a lot better, and Rampage expressing that he feels the opposite way doesn't mean he's trying to disrupt anything or upset anybody.

Now if he was going around calling people names like "troll..." that might be troll behavior. :woot:
 
Actually I've expressed tremendous joy that Alexander and Stevenson are taking over and No, I'm not a "troll." And nothing anyone posts here is "objective."

While I admitt to being a Punisher fan who rarely misses an opportunity to sh it all over the '04 movie, my criticism is constructive and I'm always willing to elaborate. I have done so plenty of times and I've never created threads intentionally constructed to provoke negative responses.

I think so many on this board were (and still are) so high on the Hensleigh lovefest that you are too quick to label it's adamant dissenters as "trolls." Do you even know the definition?

Here are a few definitions of the "troll" criteria largely accepted throughout the net:

Urbandictionary:


IMDb:

I'm not creating some OTT persona to "hide" behind nor am I putting down the opinions of others while hailing mine as absolute. Expressing valid dissatisfaction with the '04 turd is hardly trolling I don't think I fit any of the above criteria of "trolling."

If my opinions upset some of you so much, that you'd even go as far as inaccurately labeling me a "troll," then most websites agree that the best way of dealing with supposed "trolls" is to just ignore them. Not being able to disrupt the web community robs "trolls" of all their fun and they usually just stop posting all together. Ignoring my alleged "trolling" shouldn't be too dificult since I don't actively "bait" any of you.

This is clearly your most objective posts to date, but the fact of the matter is you've made about 37 posts, and so far only about 7 of them haven't mentioned how much you disliked the 2004 Punisher film, and each and every time you say it, people attack you back. So that clearly fits your definitions.

In addition to that, other members are labeling you a troll as well... I'm labeling you one and I hardly have an opinion on the 2004 film and I am pretty open about this new film as well.

Nah, that'd be childish.

And you're right I made a whole lot of errors in my post! Look at them all!

:whatever:

All I've seen Rampage really contribute to threads in the Punisher section is how much he thinks the 04 Punisher sucked. Seems pretty trollish to me...but whatever, you can keep him.

Your posts are all LEADING posts:

This reboot is necessary. '04 sucked HARD.

Don't know who those fanboys are, but I've been sh itting on Heinous Hensleigh's "movi3 pUnIzHeR" from the beginning.

Agreed. Been arguing this point with other fans for years.


Now this may be a quite a shock for some of you who may happen to be ******s, but SHH isn't the only place on the net (or real life) for fans to discuss Punisher related topics. Nor even the best.

That's what a "reboot" is. It creates it's own internal continuity without acknowledging what came before. "Reboot" does not mean a redoing of the orgin. If there are any flashbacks in this movie, they will be new scenes with STEVENSON, which means you wouldn't have needed to see the first film to understand or appreciate this one. By starting off with Castle as the Punisher and providing scenes that tell you why Castle does what he does, this could have easily taken place of the '04 turd.

I have nothing against your opinion, but the WAY you express your opinion, calling members of SHH ******s. Constantly calling 2004 Punisher names. Those things are JUST TO PROVOKE responses and to get people to pay attention to you.

You can very easily construct your opinion in a way that doesn't involve the shock and awe you think is necessary to get people to listen to you... that is what trolling is... and that is what you are doing.

Personally I don't have any disregard for your opinions and I am fairly interested in them since you haven't been on SHH that long, but I wish you'd drop the random name calling so I could view them as legit opinions and not a way to call attention to yourself and put down other fans.
 
I agree with Kritish, the reboot of the franchise is too early. So what if it's a different actor playing the part? I guarantee you that after this reboot is made, we're gonna wait for another 3 years for a sequal and it's gonna be another reboot. **** all ya'll. The '04 Punisher was good. And when this movie is made, and I see it in theaters, I'm gonna be like "That movie sucked ass, you guys are losers for even thinking it was going to be good." and all you guys are gonna be like "dag, x-p was right, the reboot is dumb as hell".
 
I agree with Kritish, the reboot of the franchise is too early. So what if it's a different actor playing the part? I guarantee you that after this reboot is made, we're gonna wait for another 3 years for a sequal and it's gonna be another reboot. **** all ya'll. The '04 Punisher was good. And when this movie is made, and I see it in theaters, I'm gonna be like "That movie sucked ass, you guys are losers for even thinking it was going to be good." and all you guys are gonna be like "dag, x-p was right, the reboot is dumb as hell".

The 2004 Punisher was awesome IMO, but I believe they can make a lot better Punisher movie. I hated the news when they cast Michael Keaton as Batman in 1989, but after I saw it, to me he was Batman and no one could replace him until Christian Bale came along in franchise considered dead (just like the Punisher). Your wrong my friend, if War Zone bombs kiss the reboots good bye. So far the Punisher has two strikes, one more and no more Punisher movies ever!!!!!!!!!!!!:joker:
 
That's what the Batman and Robin fans said before Batman Begins started filming.:woot:


what?!?! people opposed to that?!

I was skeptical when I first heard about it because of Batman and Robin, but when I saw the trailer I was like "OH HELLZ YEAH!!!" I never opposed it, just wasn't on my "to see" list when I first heard about it.
 
This is clearly your most objective posts to date, but the fact of the matter is you've made about 37 posts, and so far only about 7 of them haven't mentioned how much you disliked the 2004 Punisher film, and each and every time you say it, people attack you back. So that clearly fits your definitions.

First off, you're taking my quotes completely out of context. The OPs post was:
OK so I just found out this is going to be a reboot right? This is ****ing ridiculous, the movie came out in '04 so there's no ****ing reason to reboot the series.

It's not like with the hulk where the original sucks so hard you just need to start over. There's no damn excuse for this.

Abort this film before we're forced to give birth to it in a bathroom stall. :down

Basically, he presented the 3 main ideas of 1) rebooting the franchise is ridiculous, 2) the reboot isn't necessary, and 3) '04 wasn't poor enough to warrant a reboot.

My response was this:
This reboot is necessary. '04 sucked HARD. It's also a sequel combo, so it's not there not retelling the orgin with a faithful adaptation of YEAR ONE or anything. Though I wouldn't mind that either.

As you can see, I pretty much just offered the counter point of 1) The reboot is necessary, 2) '04 actually was poor enough to warrant a reboot, and 3) an explaination of the reboot so there wouldn't be any confusion about this being another "orgin story."

There is nothing I said that was totally unwarranted in relation to or even "below" the tone of the OP's post. My other post you took out of context was in response to another user who suggested that we "fanboys" had metaphorically turned our backs on Jonathan Hensleigh and Thomas Jane.

I simpy pointed out the distinction between myself and the crowd he was refering to, as to not get lumped into a category in which I didn't belong. None of this was "trolling."

Second, my criticisms of '04 were always attached to other ideas being expressed in the same post. Had my low opinion of '04 been the only single idea being expressed in each post and uncalled for in relation to the ideas which had been expressed before mine, THEN I would have been "trolling."

If anyone else here thinks that a user's post count and join date are indicative of how long they've been expressing their opinions on the Punisher or that I've ever implied being a "veteran" of SHH in any of my posts, like Balthus Dire, then in my opinion, you are a ******. He mocked me. I mocked him back. You don't have to like it, but it sure as sh it doesn't make me a "troll."

I have nothing against your opinion, but the WAY you express your opinion, calling members of SHH ******s. Constantly calling 2004 Punisher names. Those things are JUST TO PROVOKE responses and to get people to pay attention to you.

You can very easily construct your opinion in a way that doesn't involve the shock and awe you think is necessary to get people to listen to you... that is what trolling is... and that is what you are doing.

It occurs to me as well that because I'd proclaim "'04 SUCKS" just as quickly and blunt as another user might proclaim "04 is AWESOME," you are under the impression than I am seeking attention or intentionally provoking "attacks." I don't shove my opinions down anyone's throat or demean anyone else's simply for the fact that they aren't my own, but I'm not going to water down or *****fy my statements so they're easier for you to swallow either. Other poster rarely do (if ever), why should I be expected too?

I posted my thoughts. Some may have agreed and some may have disagreed. I don't think it ever resulted in a barrage of "attacks" as you insinuated.

If you have any history dealing with real "trolls," then you know that an actual "troll" (not just a poster you disagree with or disapprove of how the poster presents his/her opinions) would never go to half this extent to prove that they are legit.

I think you misuse the slur far too liberally.
 
I hope this movie is treated more like Garth Ennis' run. The origin has already been told, there are hints at it in the movie but never going in depth into it. Just focusing on the main story at hand. The best parts is the stories were never about The Punisher. He was the plot device. He was the boogeyman. It's actually always his supporting cast that really gets the development and he shows up and destroys them. The Punisher doesn't really count as a person really. He's an entity. He's death incarnate. That is what I want to see. Not "I miss my family so much". The mission should be the only thing on his mind.
 
I hope this movie is treated more like Garth Ennis' run. The origin has already been told, there are hints at it in the movie but never going in depth into it. Just focusing on the main story at hand. The best parts is the stories were never about The Punisher. He was the plot device. He was the boogeyman. It's actually always his supporting cast that really gets the development and he shows up and destroys them. The Punisher doesn't really count as a person really. He's an entity. He's death incarnate. That is what I want to see. Not "I miss my family so much". The mission should be the only thing on his mind.

I kinda dissagree with you. I think Ennis does a pretty damn good job developing a character who is a cold heartless SOB. Frank may not go out and say "I miss my family so much." but there have been so many times he has mentioned them in the MAX series and also some flashbacks as well.

Just take the beginning of issue 50 for example where he is dreaming of a scenario where they never died. Is that a man who doesn't miss his family?
 
I'm not saying that he doesn't. I'm saying that it's not the main focus. He mentions it every now and then like "I think about that day" but in his free time he doesn't just sit there and reminise (SP?). He's cleaning his guns, working out, all while making battle strategies in his head. He's 100% about the mission and when he comes there's no bargaining. He gets the job done without flinching and then moves on to the next.
 
I'm not saying that he doesn't. I'm saying that it's not the main focus. He mentions it every now and then like "I think about that day" but in his free time he doesn't just sit there and reminise (SP?). He's cleaning his guns, working out, all while making battle strategies in his head. He's 100% about the mission and when he comes there's no bargaining. He gets the job done without flinching and then moves on to the next.

True. I would really hate to see a scene in this movie where he mopes around, but a look back at his family in a way similar to the comics would be great.
 
First off, you're taking my quotes completely out of context. The OPs post was:

Basically, he presented the 3 main ideas of 1) rebooting the franchise is ridiculous, 2) the reboot isn't necessary, and 3) '04 wasn't poor enough to warrant a reboot.

My response was this:

As you can see, I pretty much just offered the counter point of 1) The reboot is necessary, 2) '04 actually was poor enough to warrant a reboot, and 3) an explaination of the reboot so there wouldn't be any confusion about this being another "orgin story."

There is nothing I said that was totally unwarranted in relation to or even "below" the tone of the OP's post. My other post you took out of context was in response to another user who suggested that we "fanboys" had metaphorically turned our backs on Jonathan Hensleigh and Thomas Jane.

I simpy pointed out the distinction between myself and the crowd he was refering to, as to not get lumped into a category in which I didn't belong. None of this was "trolling."

Second, my criticisms of '04 were always attached to other ideas being expressed in the same post. Had my low opinion of '04 been the only single idea being expressed in each post and uncalled for in relation to the ideas which had been expressed before mine, THEN I would have been "trolling."

If anyone else here thinks that a user's post count and join date are indicative of how long they've been expressing their opinions on the Punisher or that I've ever implied being a "veteran" of SHH in any of my posts, like Balthus Dire, then in my opinion, you are a ******. He mocked me. I mocked him back. You don't have to like it, but it sure as sh it doesn't make me a "troll."



It occurs to me as well that because I'd proclaim "'04 SUCKS" just as quickly and blunt as another user might proclaim "04 is AWESOME," you are under the impression than I am seeking attention or intentionally provoking "attacks." I don't shove my opinions down anyone's throat or demean anyone else's simply for the fact that they aren't my own, but I'm not going to water down or *****fy my statements so they're easier for you to swallow either. Other poster rarely do (if ever), why should I be expected too?

I posted my thoughts. Some may have agreed and some may have disagreed. I don't think it ever resulted in a barrage of "attacks" as you insinuated.

If you have any history dealing with real "trolls," then you know that an actual "troll" (not just a poster you disagree with or disapprove of how the poster presents his/her opinions) would never go to half this extent to prove that they are legit.

I think you misuse the slur far too liberally.

Pretty well formulated response really.

The only thing that concerns me, is I am well aware of the context of your quotes - it had more to do with the way you were choosing to say things - it simply calls for attention referring turd, etc. over and over... it wouldn't even be a concern at all if so many of your posts weren't focused at drawing attention.

However I have to admit, your last 2 post were reasonable, but come on look at the stuff you type:

You are guys are so sensitive. Fine. Here are some neutral pics of Jane and Stevenson.

RayStevens_AmyG_6161536_400.jpg

1449278934.jpg

The more intimidating, believable "average joe" who's likely to kick your ass and you'd least want to fight between the two?

STEVENSON wins this round.


Who fares better in the badass department?

When helped by proper lighting:

004KAR_Ray_Stevenson_0021.jpg

punisher2.jpg


STEVENSON wins again.


Now, without the help of the lighting setting a foreboding tone:


character_tituspullo.jpg


thomas-jane-punisher-2-46-story.jpg


JANE's not "bad" per se, but STEVENSON's got the least emo scowl down much better.

Now I’m only allowed a total of 7 images in one post, so I’ll conclude this one in another post below.

OR

I'd be seriously more worried about this guy....

SEE PIC ABOVE WITH STEPHENSON IN BLUE LIGHTING (stupid 7 image limit)


.....than I would this guy......

4043636426.jpg



.......were I facing either one of them alone down a dark alley, but that's just me.

OR

And what about other people's reactions to the stuff you do:

Ah, if I only could punch you in the scrotum.

Nice choice of pictures...Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason Tom doesnt look tough in that picture is because he's SMILING for the cameras? The shot of Ray is from a movie, the shot of Tom isnt, these were a horrible choice of pics to compare to one another.

I'm pretty sure those were his intentions.

I mean many of these posters have already gotten to the point where they KNOW this is what you do... cause trouble or arguments. You go beyond judgments of the film to random unrelated statements like calling them gay or something else along those lines.

I mean what other purpose did calling him gay have to do with anything than to draw attention - it wasn't enough that he is smaller or may not even look like the comic book counter part as much... but randomly and with no greater purpose than to draw attention to yourself you decide to see which one looks more homosexual??

And you say you aren't getting attacked! Look at what people are saying about your posts? Of course I'm ignoring the legit disagreeing.

But you are correct, your trolling is consistent with your opinions - so if it were really just your opinions and not random unrelated statements - no one could care.

I think you misuse the slur far too liberally. -- interesting, I don't call people trolls often, in the last 2 months I labeled 2 people as trolls -- they are already IP banned. So you are pretty much lacking evidence to that statement. If you want to look further back on my history be my guest, but it's about a 95% kill ratio -- so it's hardly thrown around "liberally".

You are just getting the benefit of a heads up since you seem to have real opinions but insist on lacing them with calling actors gay-looking, and referring to everything as turds and ******s.

Other than the name calling and weird attacking sexual orientation sort of things, I enjoy your opinions and hope to hear more of them.
 
This picture contest posts began and were only intended as a half joke. Some got it, others weren't amused. It really would've ended with the first post had another user not asked me to "play again."

Anyways, I still disagree that I'm often the source of "trouble" or heated "arguments" to the extent that it's now considered my "schtick" or "what I do," but oh well.
 
I'm not crazy about the idea of a complete reboot, as I enjoyed the '04 film very much and completely redoing it just 3 or 4 years later is almost like a slap in the face to everyone involved with the last one. The people behind Hulk deserve that slap. :woot:

I'm somewhat relieved to hear that the film is not a direct sequel, as the actors and setting has completely changed, but since it is not another origin story, fans of the '04 can imagine the film as a sequel...if they wish to. In other words, it sounds like there is a lot of grey area as to whether this is a sequel or restart, which should cater to people on both sides of the fence.
 
It's not like with the hulk where the original sucks so hard you just need to start over.

ACTUALLY IT'S EXACTLY THAT

your awful taste in film helped support this drek in the 1st place. the only hope this character has on screen is this reboot.

time to grow up and know what great filmaking is.

punisher by Hensleigh SUCKED and T.Jane was as poorly miscast as Affleck in Daredevil.

deal with it.
 

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