This movie was over before it got started

[The Guard]

The Punisher wouldn't kill an innocent on purpose. Isn't that the point of putting the angle into the sequel? To make Frank reconsider his "no jury" mentality?

 

[claydogg]

well alrighty then. Savage.

did you read the garth ennis graphic novel "From first to last"
this is what I'm talking about in that comic the punisher is way more brutal than you think.

it has 3 stories early
1)early frank when he was a youngester
2)when he is the present day punisher.
3)the old punisher

in the last story there a nuclear war. no one lives it seems.
the punisher is in solitery confinment.
he and anothe guy go to new york city from sing-sing prison (don't know if I spelled that right)
anyway he fines a bunker where the people who destroyed the world were. then he kills everyone including there families.

I was disturbed by this myself.
I don't think he would have killed everyone left in the world and there families.

But the punisher killing a scumbag that rapes and abuses women should be killed. and the guy in the 2004 was let go to do it to someother girl.

the punisher would have killed the scumbag!!

 

[Savage]

I don't think you get it. When people are responsible for the destruction of the friggin planet, they deserve worse than death. No way should they be the last people alive because they're all evil quite frankly. Greedy, evil people. I would have been pissed off and killed em all too if I was him because massive genocide is kind of a no no in my book.

I don't think the guy in the movie raped anybody but who knows. All I know is that he was your typical abusive boyfriend and Frank showed him the way out. I guess he didn't seem like much of a threat to the guy. It was like throwing a drunk out of a bar to him.

And that's another thing, how do we know he didn't even kill the guy? It could have happened off screen and not be shown because it would've killed the mood or something. I personally don't think the modern Punisher would do that, as shown in the evidence before, but I'm sure there is some interpretation of the character that would.

 

[citizenpain]

in the last story there a nuclear war. no one lives it seems.
the punisher is in solitery confinment.
he and anothe guy go to new york city from sing-sing prison (don't know if I spelled that right)
anyway he fines a bunker where the people who destroyed the world were. then he kills everyone including there families.

I was disturbed by this myself.
I don't think he would have killed everyone left in the world and there families.

of course he would! and why not? those pople are the epitome of evil... they wiped out the entire human race cuz they thought they were so much better than everybody and wanted to rebuild the planet in their own image. i'm with savage, i woulda done the same thing.



"this ain't no alien conspiracy theory, this **** is real / written on the dollar underneath the masonic seal" -immortal technique

 

[claydogg]

Hey savage,

I guess you liked the 2004 movie.


I didn't except for the last 20 minutes,

You got to remember, I had a friend a blockbuster
15 years ago.

I waited for the punisher to come out on video (1990 punisher)
my freind made sure I got a copy.

I really liked it alot I thought it was great.
considering the low budget and frank not wearing the skull.
but I thought "dolph" was great.

you seem to know your punisher trivia. so you know hollywood didn't want to have hero's to wear costumes back then. they didn't think it was real enough or so garbage like that.(except for batman)

but marvel wasn't up there with the budgets until "Blade."

I really wanted punisher 2004 with a big budget to be the Punisher I always hoped for.

and other than the last 20 minutes the movie was horible at least to me.
I don't blame "Thomas Jane" becuase when I played the 2004 video game I was like "wow this is great!" "jane is great as a voice over.

Then all this stuff over the summer with Jane ticked me off.
I think he used his fan popularity to control the movie.

when he didn't get his way he left.
everyone blames marvel and the studio for this.
alot of people don't realize that the studio & marvel tried to get him back.

he whined like a baby and left.

lucky for us true fans there making the movie anyways .

lets hope it's good!!!!!!!!!!
becuase this might be franks last shot at a movie for a long time.

 

[Bubonic]

of course he would! and why not? those pople are the epitome of evil... they wiped out the entire human race cuz they thought they were so much better than everybody and wanted to rebuild the planet in their own image. i'm with savage, i woulda done the same thing.



"this ain't no alien conspiracy theory, this **** is real / written on the dollar underneath the masonic seal" -immortal technique

I don't think you got the gist of the story.
They did not wipe out the entire human race.
They were the same corporate scum that lies behind the scenes in our current world, the ones that call the shots in the name of profit.
They basically have guided international politics for half a century.

The story works on the premise that these soulless corporate entrepreneurs finally brought about the end of the world, and since they had the foresight of knowing they would probably cause this to happen, they had a backup plan which involved securing their lives, and their bloodlines.

 

[Bubonic]

The only thing that stood out as not making sense to me in that story was him recalling that he killed two of the survivors simply because they were going to cannibalise some guy Pun killed for flipping out. I didn't know that be part of his moral imperative. Must be because he was old and senile, would he kill the survivors of that plane crash that ended up having to eat the fallen to survive? Thats ******ed, and I felt the story could have done without that nuance.

Based on that, no wonder claydogg can rationalize that the Punisher would indeed kill anyone for the slightest affront.

But it is a good storyline, an ironic that it is in a medium that is part of the escapism set in place to keep of distracted enough to disregard the evils happening behind the scenes, and just letting our world die.

 

[citizenpain]

I don't think you got the gist of the story.
They did not wipe out the entire human race.
They were the same corporate scum that lies behind the scenes in our current world, the ones that call the shots in the name of profit.
They basically have guided international politics for half a century.

The story works on the premise that these soulless corporate entrepreneurs finally brought about the end of the world, and since they had the foresight of knowing they would probably cause this to happen, they had a backup plan which involved securing their lives, and their bloodlines.

yeah, thanks. i know how it went down. still pure evil.

 

[claydogg]

yeah I here you guys but my reply was to SAVAGE

becuase I wanted to make a point that the punisher MAX is alot different the the old school punisher.

I was writing that if the punisher could kill the families of these scumbags in "from first to last" final story
"the end."

I understand that the punisher would kill the the rich war profiters.

in one of pics he also guns down a black woman holding her son.

That was the part that disturbed me.

with that said I was saying if the punisher would do that in the 2004 movie he would have

A] killed the scumbag with the butterfly knife

b]Killed the guy that say a song and play the gutair mocking his family instantly. instead of giving him a chance later to kill frank.

 

[Brendan]

in one of pics he also guns down a black woman holding her son.

That was the part that disturbed me.

What the fudge are you talking about? I think you're reading the wrong comic.

 

[citizenpain]

yeah, you must be confused cuz that definitely does not happen in the end... or any other punisher comic? i don't think so. in the end, he just mows down a bunch of corporate dudes. "oilmen and generals. computer billionares and senators. captains of industry... the coven." there were no families involved.

 

[The Guard]

As I recall in that story, by killing those people (because he believes they deserve punishment for their actions), The Punisher effectively ends any chance there is for the human race to survive. I don't remember him gunning down any families. But he may well have. He was kind of half-gone at that point.

 

[Bubonic]

Meh, the world was better off without humanity.
Humans have been around for about .003% of world history, and we probably are going to annihilate it.

 

[claydogg]

Look it up if you have the book "from first to last" there's no page number.

but the punisher thoughts when that pics is there here's his thoughts in the pic.

"THEY Could sell anything to anyone."

I'm not ripping on the novel I loved it except for that one pic.

 

[Savage]

Hey savage,

I guess you liked the 2004 movie.


I didn't except for the last 20 minutes,

You got to remember, I had a friend a blockbuster
15 years ago.

I waited for the punisher to come out on video (1990 punisher)
my freind made sure I got a copy.

I really liked it alot I thought it was great.
considering the low budget and frank not wearing the skull.
but I thought "dolph" was great.

you seem to know your punisher trivia. so you know hollywood didn't want to have hero's to wear costumes back then. they didn't think it was real enough or so garbage like that.(except for batman)

but marvel wasn't up there with the budgets until "Blade."

I really wanted punisher 2004 with a big budget to be the Punisher I always hoped for.

and other than the last 20 minutes the movie was horible at least to me.
I don't blame "Thomas Jane" becuase when I played the 2004 video game I was like "wow this is great!" "jane is great as a voice over.

Then all this stuff over the summer with Jane ticked me off.
I think he used his fan popularity to control the movie.

when he didn't get his way he left.
everyone blames marvel and the studio for this.
alot of people don't realize that the studio & marvel tried to get him back.

he whined like a baby and left.

lucky for us true fans there making the movie anyways .

lets hope it's good!!!!!!!!!!
becuase this might be franks last shot at a movie for a long time.

I do like both Punisher movies and I totally get where you're coming from. The way I saw it though (and what people fail to realize) is that he wasn't The Punisher until the end of the movie. This was an origin movie. This was him letting loose his controlled rage on the people that annihilated his family by allowing them to feel even a fraction of what he felt. Only later, after it was all said and done, to realize that it didn't make a difference. He still feels the same way that he did before and he's on that road to where we see him in the comics now. That he is damned and is seaking some kind of relief by destroying these evils. He was crazy in the 2004 movie but the point that was trying to be made was that this was only the beginning of his madness. By the end of the movie it's more than just "They must pay for what they did." and it becomes "They all must pay. Everyone." and that's when he becomes really scary.

This is why I can't wait to see what they do with this Punisher movie when he's already well into his career. The 2004 movie was excusable for what it was and I must say that I enjoyed it very much but now I really want to see the man who lives for the war he started at the end of the 2004 movie.

 

[claydogg]

No I agree with you savage!

I think that he wasn't the punisher until the last 20 min.

I think that was cool to develop his charater but I just wanted it to happen more faster like "spiderman." when uncle ben dies.

I have see any of "Rome" yet, have you?

I really think from what I hear that "Ray" could be what we needed all along.

I just don't know if they will have the budget becuase of the last movie doing o.k.

But "Kurt Sutter" and company should give us the script we all want!

 

[Brendan]

Look it up if you have the book "from first to last" there's no page number.

but the punisher thoughts when that pics is there here's his thoughts in the pic.

"THEY Could sell anything to anyone."

I'm not ripping on the novel I loved it except for that one pic.

I whipped out my copy of The End and I'm looking at that page right now and I can tell you that's not a baby she's holding. I can see why you would think that though since the art work has a cartoonish quality to it, but the guy's face doesn't look like the kind of face you would draw for a baby. Plus it looks like he's wearing a suit like everyone else.

The people in that room are all oilmen, generals, billionaires, and senators. They're all cramped together in that one small panel, and this Richard Corben dude seems to like to make people look like midgets in some of the panels he draws.

So yeah, that's not a baby.

 

[claydogg]

I whipped out my copy of The End and I'm looking at that page right now and I can tell you that's not a baby she's holding. I can see why you would think that though since the art work has a cartoonish quality to it, but the guy's face doesn't look like the kind of face you would draw for a baby. Plus it looks like he's wearing a suit like everyone else.

The people in that room are all oilmen, generals, billionaires, and senators. They're all cramped together in that one small panel, and this Richard Corben dude seems to like to make people look like midgets in some of the panels he draws.

So yeah, that's not a baby.

O.K. Brendon now you know what I'm talking about.

I saw the way she was holding his head like a child. but hey I'm cool with midget explaination.

it makes me feel better.

do you still think the 2004 punisher was weak?

 

[Savage]

I just think it was a very good action movie. It wasn't Die Hard or anything but it was entertaining. What was basically just some guy that was stepped on by the mob seaking revenge and managing to destroy them from the inside out. Saint expected it to be done and overwith and by the end of the movie he's losing millions of dollars because of this one man. Then at the end of the movie that same one man casually walks into his building and whipes out everybody in his building and has him tied to his own car and dragged into an exploding parking lot. That was just great stuff for me.

That's what I always liked about the new Punisher stories that this movie exemplified. The focus is on the villains and the supporting characters while The Punisher is in the background and just comes out of nowhere and whipes everybody out. Then he drives off to the next mission. The older stories always focused on The Punisher and his internal struggle and his relationships with the people around him (and the brought this back with War Journal) but I've always prefered the format Ennis used. The Punisher is just an entity like death. He has no personal life. It's all about the mission for him and that's how it should be. He's not Spider-man who has a wife and friends. He's just...The Punisher. He's just the job.

 

[Spade]

To me, this movie has been over for some time. I'm just waiting until it gets finalized and this weary exercise gets completed. I just don't have optimism for this film.

 

[Costa]

To me, this movie has been over for some time. I'm just waiting until it gets finalized and this weary exercise gets completed. I just don't have optimism for this film.

Could you tell us why?

 

[claydogg]

where waiting?

 

[SWAT]

where waiting?

He's probably waiting at home, maby at work or maby just maby... in a cafè.

 

[claydogg]

are you confused?

 

[citizenpain]