Thoughts on the Hospital Scene

[William_C]

When Doc Ock was in the hospital after the mishap in the demonstration, what did you all think of the tentacles going after and killing everyone? I thought it was pretty clean, but the fact that it seem like a horror movie scene, screaming, no escape, kill after kill.

Is it just Raimi style(d) of horror flicks? What's you all's opinion?

 

[The Joker]

It was very Evil Dead style, the way the camera is sometimes at the tentacle's point of vision. Lunging towards the doctors etc.

If you listen to the commentary during that scene, you'll hear Tobey Maguire saying that the scene is pure Sam Raimi, as it has a real Evil Dead vibe to it.

Great scene. Quite violent.

 

[Redwoods Wolf]

When Doc Ock was in the hospital after the mishap in the demonstration, what did you all think of the tentacles going after and killing everyone? I thought it was pretty clean, but the fact that it seem like a horror movie scene, screaming, no escape, kill after kill.

Is it just Raimi style(d) of horror flicks? What's you all's opinion?

Loved it. First scene of the tentacles as a weapon and a major threat to Spider-Man. And I liked that not all of the violence was shown....added something to the scene.

And that's definitely Raimi-style with the camera-work. I half expected to hear some prolonged moan and cut to the Snooty Usher being chased around the hospital.

 

[El Payaso]

Ity was genius. I loved it. Just missed lots of blood. I don't know how such a slaughter was commited and no one drop of blood to be seen.

 

[DyeLorean]

I LOOOOOOOVE that scene. And yes, that is classic Raimi filiming style

D!

 

[Grievous]

When Doc Ock was in the hospital after the mishap in the demonstration, what did you all think of the tentacles going after and killing everyone? I thought it was pretty clean, but the fact that it seem like a horror movie scene, screaming, no escape, kill after kill.

Is it just Raimi style(d) of horror flicks? What's you all's opinion?

it was a good scene I thought

 

[matthooper]

It's a great scene. It shows how powerful they are and just how effective they are. These doctors were going to essentially "kill" the tentacles. It sets the tone for their purpose which is their own survival (in turn to keep the fusion project going). They will stop at nothing to achieve it. It also shows they they work apart from Otto, and he doesn't control them. It's actually an important and chilling scene.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It's a great scene. It shows how powerful they are and just how effective they are. These doctors were going to essentially "kill" the tentacles. It sets the tone for their purpose which is their own survival (in turn to keep the fusion project going). They will stop at nothing to achieve it. It also shows they they work apart from Otto, and he doesn't control them. It's actually an important and chilling scene.

He doesn't control them in that particular scene. And, they can operate independantly. But, when Otto goes to the dark side, they do obey his mental commands.

 

[matthooper]

He doesn't control them in that particular scene. And, they can operate independantly. But, when Otto goes to the dark side, they do obey his mental commands.

Not really. The woman at the fusion demonstration asks something like "with the artificial intelligence of the arms wouldn't they control you?". He says "yes, that's why I created this inhibitor chip which protects my higher brain functions". Plus, at the end he says, listen to me NOW. Why would he say now, if he had been controlling them?

The chip burns out, which means they control him and operate independently.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Not really. The woman at the fusion demonstration asks something like "with the artificial intelligence of the arms wouldn't they control you?". He says "yes, that's why I created this inhibitor chip which protects my higher brain functions". Plus, at the end he says, listen to me NOW. Why would he say now, if he had been controlling them?

The chip burns out, which means they control him and operate independently.

Saying they controlled him was lazy wording on the script writers' part, when that is obviously not what was conveyed in the movie.

People who are mind controlled have no personality. They're zombies. Like programmed computers. Otto was anything but. He was brimming with emotion and personality. He smiled, laughed, spewed out witty villainous lines, showed anger and frustration at Spider-Man's interferences etc.

The biggest piece of evidence that proves he was not controlled, was at the end, when Peter confronted him with the reality of what was happening with the reactor, and what Otto had done.

Instead of saying "Oh my god, what have I done??", as anyone who was mind controlled, or hypnotized would. He simply said "It was my dream". Like this somehow justifies all the evil things he did. Which in his mind, was his train of thought. "The real crime would be not to finish what I started". He embraced the idea that he had not lost everything in his life that means something to him.

Saying "Listen to me now" does not mean they controlled him. It means he they were resisting what he was telling them to do in that particular scene. As in letting go of Peter.

Otto's downfall was his vanity, humbris, and ruthless determination. We saw he was capable of violence at the demonstration, when he smashed Spidey into the wall when Spidey tried to unplug the reactor. He was clearly unreasonable, even when the reactor was destroying his lab. He still refused logical action to shut it down.

And it cost him his wife. He was responsible for her death.

The arms influenced him definitely. But they did not control him. No way. That's not how it was portrayed in the movie.

 

[matthooper]

Saying they controlled him was lazy wording on the script writers' part, when that is obviously not what was conveyed in the movie.

People who are mind controlled have no personality. They're zombies. Like programmed computers. Otto was anything but. He was brimming with emotion and personality. He smiled, laughed, spewed out witty villainous lines, showed anger and frustration at Spider-Man's interferences etc.

The biggest piece of evidence that proves he was not controlled, was at the end, when Peter confronted him with the reality of what was happening with the reactor, and what Otto had done.

Instead of saying "Oh my god, what have I done??", as anyone who was mind controlled, or hypnotized would. He simply said "It was my dream". Like this somehow justifies all the evil things he did. Which in his mind, was his train of thought. "The real crime would be not to finish what I started". He embraced the idea that he had not lost everything in his life that means something to him.

Saying "Listen to me now" does not mean they controlled him. It means he they were resisting what he was telling them to do in that particular scene. As in letting go of Peter.

Otto's downfall was his vanity, humbris, and ruthless determination. We saw he was capable of violence at the demonstration, when he smashed Spidey into the wall when Spidey tried to unplug the reactor. He was clearly unreasonable, even when the reactor was destroying his lab. He still refused logical action to shut it down.

And it cost him his wife. He was responsible for her death.

The arms influenced him definitely. But they did not control him. No way. That's not how it was portrayed in the movie.

No you're right they didn't control him like a zombie, but they "made him something he wasn't" , and they for the most part controlled themselves. I guess it was sort of a give and take relationship. The whole debate started when I mentioned that the arms worked apart from Ock, which they obviously did at times(especially shown while he was sleeping). He had influence over them and they had influence over him. I think the influence of the arms on Ock, was greater than his influence on them.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

No you're right they didn't control him like a zombie, but they "made him something he wasn't" ,

That is true. He was like Norman, a victim of bad science, and turned into a monster. But, he was also to blame for his own actions. Alot of it was down to Otto and his own humbris. The arms played on his passion of his work. His ruthless ambition to succeed.

If he wasn't at all to blame, drowning the reactor at the end would have been meaningless. Which it wasn't. He was repenting his own sins. The evil things he'd done.

and they for the most part controlled themselves.

Again, I wouldn't say that. When the arms attacked or did anything in general after Otto turned to the dark side, he made the body gestures for that action. Suggesting it was him who was doing it.

Lighting a cigar, taking off his hat, removing his shades, taking a drink etc. All actions obviously done by Otto. The arms would hardly be making him do that. Once the arms convinced him he was justified in doing anything to to rebuild his work, he was in the driving seat IMO.

I guess it was sort of a give and take relationship. The whole debate started when I mentioned that the arms worked apart from Ock, which they obviously did at times(especially shown while he was sleeping). He had influence over them and they had influence over him. I think the influence of the arms on Ock, was greater than his influence on them.

I agree, there was influence on both sides. That was obvious. Sam really showed that in the scene where Otto turns evil.

He's there grieving over the loss of everything that meant something to him. His wife and his life's work. Then the arms offer him a glimmer of hope that he hasn't lost everything that he cares about.

Which is easier to believe?? That you failed at something you worked on all your life, or you did succeed with it?? Otto was a broken man. When the arms offered him hope, he grabbed it with both hands.

I loved that. He was a very human villain. Very three dimensional.

But, when he was turned to the dark side, I fully believe that he was dictating the actions to the arms. The subtle little things like lighting a cigar, taking off his hate, removing his shades, taking a drink etc, further suggested that.

It's only when he went against the plan, meaning agreeing that Peter was right about what he said, did the arms resist his commands. When Otto said to them "He's right", they squealed in dismay.

 

[matthooper]

Lighting a cigar, taking off his hat, removing his shades, taking a drink etc. All actions obviously done by Otto. The arms would hardly be making him do that. Once the arms convinced him he was justified in doing anything to to rebuild his work, he was in the driving seat IMO.

What's funny is I saw those action differently. In those moments, I saw the arms as accomodating. They were being polite in removing his shades and lighting the cigar.

The fact is we can debate the level of influence of the arms and/or Ock forever, but I don't think we are too far apart on our takes. It's just the subtle differences we might see differently.

I saw the "Listen to me NOW" as his first true stance against the arms. Since they made a point in talking about his higher brain functions being protected, I felt once the chip was buned out, they had a greater level of control over Ock then he did, but not total control. He was heavily influenced by their single "minded" goals. Since they shared the same goals, their influence made him do things he would never have done without them. But he did have some influence on the arms and their actions, but not their motives until the end.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

What's funny is I saw those action differently. In those moments, I saw the arms as accomodating. They were being polite in removing his shades and lighting the cigar.

I don't see it as being polite. He clearly wanted to smoke, or have a drink etc. So he willed the arms to do it. And they didn't resist. Because it didn't hurt their goal.

The fact is we can debate the level of influence of the arms and/or Ock forever, but I don't think we are too far apart on our takes. It's just the subtle differences we might see differently.

Agreed.

I just think the word "controlled" was a poor choice of words to use. Influenced or vunerable to their influence would have been a better word to use. As that is essentially how he was portrayed.

A man controlled by a machine is without any emotion. Machines cannot forge human emotion. Only a person can do that. Otto's passion and emotion that he showed as a villain clearly showed Otto was not controlled. Just misguided.

I saw the "Listen to me NOW" as his first true stance against the arms.

I agree. Because it was the first time that he realized that building his dream does not justify the evil he did. Which had been his train of thought. "Sometimes, to do what's right we have to be steady, and give up the thing we want the most. Even our dreams".

Another wonderful stroke by Sam. Both hero and villain echoed the theme of the movie. Peter giving up being the hero, meaning doing what was right, so he could have the dream of living a normal life, and being with MJ. Otto not doing what is right to make his dream succeed.

Great parallel.

Since they made a point in talking about his higher brain functions being protected, I felt once the chip was buned out, they had a greater level of control over Ock then he did, but not total control. He was heavily influenced by their single "minded" goals. Since they shared the same goals, their influence made him do things he would never have done without them. But he did have some influence on the arms and their actions, but not their motives until the end.

Yes, when the chip burned out, they were able to talk to him in his mind, and influence him into thinking he had not failed, and was justifed to do whatever it takes to rebuild his dream.

That, I believe was the full extent of their influence. Peter never accused Otto of saying he doesn't know what he's doing, or realize what he's doing. Otto never behaved like he just woke up from a trance or bad dream.

He was fully aware of what he was doing. He was just misguided by the justification of doing it by the arms.

 

[matthooper]

I think people forget just how poignant these Spider-Man films are. To me, this is why they are leaps and bounds above the other Superhero fare. As we debate the level of influence of the arms, it brings up the choices we make, and the people we are because of our own influences and circumstances. I think Spider-Man 3 might be the most important as it translates to real life.

These films speak about our morals, our choices and the people we are and want to be.

 

[pjspider1C]

Since they made a point in talking about his higher brain functions being protected, I felt once the chip was buned out, they had a greater level of control over Ock then he did, but not total control.

That's actually one of the things that I thought was a little funny. Let's attach heavy-duty, artificially intelligent, mechanical arms to my spine... but let's make the control chip that protects my brain out of plastic. Don't think Ock made the best choice there... jk

 

[matthooper]

That's actually one of the things that I thought was a little funny. Let's attach heavy-duty, artificially intelligent, mechanical arms to my spine... but let's make the control chip that protects my brain out of plastic. Don't think Ock made the best choice there... jk

I think chips are made of silicone, probably not plastic. I know what you're saying, but I don't think Ock envisioned getting badly electrocuted and the chip being burned out. No matter what it was made out of, it probably would have been destroyed with that many volts running through it.

 

[The Joker]

I think chips are made of silicone, probably not plastic. I know what you're saying, but I don't think Ock envisioned getting badly electrocuted and the chip being burned out.

Yeah, Otto was mighty confident that his fusion experiment would work.

Peter: "Are you sure you can stabilize the fusion reaction?"
Otto: "Peter, what have we been talking about for the last hour and a half? This is my life's work. I certainly know the consequences of the slightest miscalculation."
Peter: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to question you"
Otto: "Rosie, our new friend here thinks I'm going to blow up the city. You can sleep soundly tonight, Peter"

It was similar to Norman Osborn's scenario. He tests a formula on himself that had previously shown results of violence, aggression, and insanity.

Gotta' love these scientist villains

 

[pjspider1C]

I think chips are made of silicone, probably not plastic. I know what you're saying, but I don't think Ock envisioned getting badly electrocuted and the chip being burned out. No matter what it was made out of, it probably would have been destroyed with that many volts running through it.

Even so, you think he would've come up with some better safety precautions. I mean, the guy was standing a few feet away from a miniature sun with nothing in front of him. Any one of those spikes could've lashed out and killed him right there.

However, this could speak to Ock's character as well... rushing to the result without taking every factor into consideration.

 

[matthooper]

Even so, you think he would've come up with some better safety precautions. I mean, the guy was standing a few feet away from a miniature sun with nothing in front of him. Any one of those spikes could've lashed out and killed him right there.

However, this could speak to Ock's character as well... rushing to the result without taking every factor into consideration.

It's all in the ego.

 

[GoogleMe94]

I think the influence of the arms on Ock, was greater than his influence on them.

i noticed this also. it didnt seem like dock ock himself was the major threat, but the tentacle arms were. thats what made him IMO a weak villian. i liked the way the green goblin was done, a much better inner struggle was presented.

 

[The Joker]

Loved the hospital scene. It was so dark and violent. Dr Ock was such an awesome villain. Much better than Green Goblin.

 

[Leenie]

This is a brilliant scene.

I love the way this scene demonstrates that you don't need the blood and gore to make something intense.

 

[Captain_Death]

I loved the hospital scene. It scared the crap out of me the first time I saw it and I have to close my eyes at the part when the woman's nails are cutting into the floor.

 

[weezerspider]

This and the train scene are the coolest scenes in the movie. I always thought if this part had been left out, then Spiderman 2 would have been PG. Great part though, I also wished there was atleast some blood though.