Sequels Thread for VILLANS in Spider-Man 4 and 5 (Don't make any more!)

[Chris Wallace]

I hope not. Spider-Man is not Blade. I don't want to see vampires. You want an accidentally mutated scientist? We've got Lizard. That's all we need.

 

[Symbiote666]

He would fit, but of course that doesn't serve as total proof he's going to be in.

Still, I was kinda hoping Connors would be the first guy using animals to cure himself, he's far better than Morbius. SM5 would just seem like a cut and paste job if Lizard was used in it.

 

[Adrian89]

I'm not sure if I want Lizard, I can't imagine how he'd look on screen (He needs to be ferocious and as realistic as possible!) and I don't want them to screw up Lizard like they did with Venom just because a big amount of Spider Fans want him.

Any Villain/s are good as long as the movie is good. That's all I want actually!

 

[Symbiote666]

Well the difference is that Lizard is actually a good villian, Raimi knows this.

As I said before, perhaps in this post, Lizard's storyline in his series already has all of the connections he likes his villian to have. There's no need for him to start tacking on things to make us care about both sides of the villian.

 

[Adrian89]

Venom is a good villain too! He is among the TOP Spidey Villains along with GG, Ock and so on and he should've been done right!

 

[I Am The Knight]

The thing is, though, Morbius is the type of villain that would fit the "Raimi Villain Mold": a scientist who's experiment goes awry, and then he becomes a misunderstood villian who isn't really bad per se.

I was hoping they would move away from that.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I was hoping they would move away from that.

agreed

the only way i think they should continue the mold of misunderstood freaked out scientist, is too have Curt Conners become The Lizard, but Spidey knows who it is and trying to help while Kraven tries to hunt it and Spidey has to get to Curt before Kraven takes him out

 

[Venom'sDad]

Look... Morbius was rumored as possibly being in Spidey3... so I wouldn't be so concern about what Sam is saying...................................................................... hopefully.

 

[Chris Wallace]

The stage has moreso been set for Lizard.

 

[cerealkiller182]

meh.....I dont think just because Conners is introduced mean that Raimi is planning on using Lizard anytime soon. I understand that the fans are prepped and ready for it. But they needed to show Peters academic/science side and how it has been effected by Spiderman and Conners fills that void. Hes even mentioned in the first movie as firing Peter for his lateness.

 

[Venom'sDad]

The stage has moreso been set for Lizard.

I disagree... I'll say this again. If they are planning to shoot Back-2-Back films, Lizard won't come until the backend, Spidey5. They will setup his eventual arrival with his experiments in Spidey4 building to Spidey5. There will be another main villain for Spidey4.

If the intent is to shoot a single film, than yes I agree, the stage is set for Lizard in Spidey4.

 

[The Joker]

Look... Morbius was rumored as possibly being in Spidey3... so I wouldn't be so concern about what Sam is saying...................................................................... hopefully.

They were going to use Black Cat in Spider-Man 2, but she didn't rear her head in Spider-Man 3. Morbius is worse. A vampire in a Spidey movie? Marvel has their vampire franchise in Blade. Those movies are rated 18's. How is Morbius in a PG-13 movie aimed at kids going to live up to any kind of decent standards?

Raimi is sniffing glue if he's seriously considering wasting a Spidey movie on Morbius when there's a plethora of far more deserving and interesting Spidey villains left.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Yeah... you are making my point.... I wouldn't be concern about what "glue sniffing" Sam is saying about Morbius. You are absolutely right Joker.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Well add Morbius to the mix.

http://www.joblo.com/raimi-wants-morbius

Source article is from Empire Magazine.

Well, I don't think Sam will have him in #4. However, I think seeing Morbuis on screen would be great.

 

[cerealkiller182]

They were going to use Black Cat in Spider-Man 2, but she didn't rear her head in Spider-Man 3. Morbius is worse. A vampire in a Spidey movie? Marvel has their vampire franchise in Blade. Those movies are rated 18's. How is Morbius in a PG-13 movie aimed at kids going to live up to any kind of decent standards?

Its not as if Morbius isnt a Spidey character

Raimi is sniffing glue if he's seriously considering wasting a Spidey movie on Morbius when there's a plethora of far more deserving and interesting Spidey villains left.

Last time someone said this about Raimi we ended up with a half assed Venom. I think he should use whoever the hell he wants

 

[The Joker]

Its not as if Morbius isnt a Spidey character

So what? There's plenty of lame villains that are Spidey characters, like the Walrus, or White Rabbit etc. Would you be ok with them being used just because they're Spidey characters?

Of course not. What has Morbius done that makes him more deserving to be used before the likes of the Lizard, Electro, Scorpion, Vulture etc, who have a much greater history as Spidey's enemies than Morbius does.

Last time someone said this about Raimi we ended up with a half assed Venom.

That was Avi Arad's fault. He pushed Venom on Raimi. Raimi never wanted to use Venom. He was lumbered with a character who comes with a whole load of baggage of a symbiote storyline.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Of couarse he's going to pick whatever villain he wishes... but he didn't say he was picking Morbius, so where's the concern.... there is none. He said he like "in the comics" not in his next film.

BTW, like SMH12, he would be great to see on the big screen...... in a Blade or DareDevil film.

 

[LightningFlash]

However, I think seeing Morbuis on screen would be great.

Hahahaha.

May I ask why?

Plasma...that's the first time I heard the word "plasma"....haha.

That was Avi Arad's fault. He pushed Venom on Raimi. Raimi never wanted to use Venom. He was lumbered with a character who comes with a whole load of baggage of a symbiote storyline.

You must give SOME blame to Raimi though. Didn't he have a part in the writing? Couldn't he have TRIED a better job?

Another example of Raimi's laziness; he "stated" he wanted Flint Marko to just be a petty criminal and then get his sand-powers. So what made him change his mind? Was it Arad, or an example OF Sam Raimi being lazy?

And you can't really say, because he wanted to connect Marko with Parker, because he could've done a better job with the connection instead of a retcon.

 

[cerealkiller182]

So what? There's plenty of lame villains that are Spidey characters, like the Walrus, or White Rabbit etc. Would you be ok with them being used just because they're Spidey characters?

Of course not. What has Morbius done that makes him more deserving to be used before the likes of the Lizard, Electro, Scorpion, Vulture etc, who have a much greater history as Spidey's enemies than Morbius does.

Did I say more deserving? Nope. But everyone is saying, Vampire that doesnt make sense, when the character is actually a Spidey character. Morbius isnt exactly the Lizard but hes no Will o Wisp either.

That was Avi Arad's fault. He pushed Venom on Raimi. Raimi never wanted to use Venom. He was lumbered with a character who comes with a whole load of baggage of a symbiote storyline.

Avi Arad who was listening to fans who have been clamoring for Venom from the get go, a character Raimi didnt care for, symbiote storyline or not, and he tried to do something with it and failed. And now again fans are forcing Raimi to think a certain way instead of letting Raimi just do the story he wants.

 

[Chris Wallace]

1-Punisher's a Spidey character, too. I don't want him in a Spider-Man movie.
2-while I liked the movie's portrayal of Venom (Not a big Venom fan in general) I do agree that if fans didn't pressure the studio the way they did, they may have enjoyed the 3rd movie more.

 

[The Joker]

You must give SOME blame to Raimi though. Didn't he have a part in the writing? Couldn't he have TRIED a better job?

You can't make s**t shine. When you have the Harry Goblin story, a Peter/MJ/Gwen love triangle, Sandman's story, and then the symbiote storyline to tell, and then do Brock/Venom as well.

Waaaaaaay too much going on in SM-3. None of it worked. Only Harry's story came off in some way decent, and that's only because he's been getting developed since SM-1.

Another example of Raimi's laziness; he "stated" he wanted Flint Marko to just be a petty criminal and then get his sand-powers. So what made him change his mind? Was it Arad, or an example OF Sam Raimi being lazy?

He was a petty criminal who just got his sand powers. He escapes from jail, chased by the Cops, falls into a pit and gets his sand powers. He just happened to be a petty criminal who was stealing so he could get money for his daughter.

Did I say more deserving? Nope. But everyone is saying, Vampire that doesnt make sense, when the character is actually a Spidey character. Morbius isnt exactly the Lizard but hes no Will o Wisp either.

It all falls back on the fact that what works in a comic book would not work on screen. Think about it, can you see a vampire being a villain in these style of Spidey movies? A vampire = horror. Look at the Blade movies. Imagine something like that in a Spidey flick. Never work. Unless they tone him down to kid friendly levels, in which case he becomes a half assed version of himself.

It's one of the reasons why Carnage would never work. Too graphic. All he does he hack people up with his symbiote shaped weapons.

Avi Arad who was listening to fans who have been clamoring for Venom from the get go, a character Raimi didnt care for, symbiote storyline or not, and he tried to do something with it and failed. And now again fans are forcing Raimi to think a certain way instead of letting Raimi just do the story he wants.

Nobody is forcing Raimi to think any kind of way. We just don't want a friggin' vampire as the villain. Quite different from trying to force one character that he doesn't even like onto him.

 

[LightningFlash]

You can't make s**t shine. When you have the Harry Goblin story, a Peter/MJ/Gwen love triangle, Sandman's story, and then the symbiote storyline to tell, and then do Brock/Venom as well.

Waaaaaaay too much going on in SM-3. None of it worked. Only Harry's story came off in some way decent, and that's only because he's been getting developed since SM-1.



He was a petty criminal who just got his sand powers. He escapes from jail, chased by the Cops, falls into a pit and gets his sand powers. He just happened to be a petty criminal who was stealing so he could get money for his daughter.

I do agree that Harry's storyline was the best to watch in the film.

But with Sandman, Raimi's supposedly original plan was to not have him with a daughter and ex-wife and not to have killed Ben Parker.

 

[The Joker]

I do agree that Harry's storyline was the best to watch in the film.

But with Sandman, Raimi's supposedly original plan was to not have him with a daughter and ex-wife and not to have killed Ben Parker.

Yes, the original plan was to have him and Vulture in the movie. Adrian Toomes was supposed to be the cell mate of Marko in jail. Toomes is a mentor/father figure to Marko, and he has a personal grudge against Spider-Man who supposedly captured him and put him in jail. Or something along those lines.

Then Venom was forced in, and that meant having to do the symbiote storyline, too. And so the whole plot had to be redesigned to fit around that. Venom and Harry were all about revenge. So they had to make Sandman fit into that theme. So they make him Uncle Ben's killer.

I'm not condoning any of these writing decisions. I think they are woeful. I can't stand SM-3. Can't even watch it anymore. It's painful to watch.

 

[LightningFlash]

It's funny though; it would be easy to have Sandman's storyline be Vulture's. A past criminal that Spidey dealt with. Why Raimi had to do a retcon with Ben Parker, it makes no sense to me.

 

[cerealkiller182]

It all falls back on the fact that what works in a comic book would not work on screen. Think about it, can you see a vampire being a villain in these style of Spidey movies? A vampire = horror. Look at the Blade movies. Imagine something like that in a Spidey flick. Never work. Unless they tone him down to kid friendly levels, in which case he becomes a half assed version of himself.

Morbius is as valid as any of them as far as I am concerned. He is a living vampire thus explained by science not magic. Doc Ock's awakening scene is a prime example of doing horror without being gratuitously gory. Right up Raimis alley really.

Nobody is forcing Raimi to think any kind of way. We just don't want a friggin' vampire as the villain. Quite different from trying to force one character that he doesn't even like onto him.

The point is its Raimis call. I dont think he is "sniffing glue" as you put it. I dont think he is making a mistake either. Sure theres more deserving and interesting characters, but this is a character Raimi wants to use so at least hes gonna try and at this very moment deserves some benefit of the doubt considering his vision is returning to stories and/or character Raimi wants to do or cares about rather than trying to appease fans hypothetically